Noir City Visits Chicago

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JackFavell
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Re: Noir City Visits Chicago

Post by JackFavell »

I do agree it IS a mission for Hank, not just his job, I do see that and that's a great point, ChiO, about that first scene. Cody must be stopped because he looses even more evil in his wake by forcing others to do what is distasteful or wrong to them. That is pure evil. But isn't that just what MA has made him do? Ma had her own agenda, and used Cody, turned him into what she wants him to be by behavior modification. It is hinted that he only got her attention when he had headaches, that is one of the bland policeman's theories. Is it not more likely that she showered attention when he did what she wanted him to do (took power, betrayed or shoved his gun into someone)? I think there's a case to be made that his headaches stem from a deep rooted need for his mother to love him, and his thoughts that maybe she was forcing HIM to do what was distasteful or wrong in his eyes. She cut him off when he disobeyed her....perhaps he had a friend he had to betray for Ma? So now he gleefully kills, or forces others to kill their best friends....cause that's what you do.

I just feel bad for Cody on some level, that the only man he ever got really close to is the one who is going to betray him in the worst possible way. Plus, I don't think Hank knows about Cody's betrayal of the two friends.
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ChiO
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Re: Noir City Visits Chicago

Post by ChiO »

I don't think Hank knows about Cody's betrayal of the two friends.
I believe you're right about that; however, that is irrelevant for me in the context of whether I, as a viewer, have sympathy for Cody.
Ma had her own agenda, and used Cody, turned him into what she wants him to be by behavior modification. .... I think there's a case to be made that his headaches stem from a deep rooted need for his mother to love him, and his thoughts that maybe she was forcing HIM to do what was distasteful or wrong in his eyes.
Doggonit -- Now you're gonna make have to watch it again. I have never focused on Ma's role in his "insanity", always having taken at face value the various comments about him getting his mental illness from his father. Did Ma do it to Pa? Next time I'll need to listen for those clues.
the only man he ever got really close to is the one who is going to betray him in the worst possible way.
Which kinda gets us back to where I was going with my original closing comment in my Noir City post/review. Cody has a thing -- an obsessive relationship -- with Ma. She is the only person he's ever trusted (with or without justification). Not quite Oedipal or Batesian (though pretty close to the latter; after all A boy's best friend is his mother.), but it's probably unhealthy in some fashion. With Ma gone -- first due to his incarceration, then her death -- Cody turns to Pardo. Is he a substitute mother? He sharing 50-50 with him and he's only done that with Ma. (I know...he refers to him late in the film as "like a brother", but that messes up the thesis, so I'l ignore it.) He rubs Cody's neck. He saves Cody's life. So, does Cody really have a sense of betrayal by Pardo (Fallon) as opposed to a sense of loss...a loss of his mother...for the second time? Yes, betrayal is a form of loss; but a betrayal that manifests itself as the loss of a mother brings primal forces to the fore far beyond that of a betrayal by a supposed friend.
Everyday people...that's what's wrong with the world. -- Morgan Morgan
I love movies. But don't get me wrong. I hate Hollywood. -- Orson Welles
Movies can only go forward in spite of the motion picture industry. -- Orson Welles
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JackFavell
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Re: Noir City Visits Chicago

Post by JackFavell »

His reaction is certainly not the way he reacted to the loss of Ma. In fact, he laughs, as if the jokes on him. But then there's that grim mouth set, as if he was biting down or clamping down on the feelings. For me, it seems almost as if there was Ma's voice in his ear... "Son, I told you so. Don't trust anyone.... but me."

Yeah, definitely a relation to the Bates family. I actually always wondered (I think I wrote it in another thread) if Hitch had watched White Heat and it inspired him.
RedRiver
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Re: Noir City Visits Chicago

Post by RedRiver »

I must be a terrible person. I don't really care if Cody feels betrayed. He's the bad guy! **** happens.
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JackFavell
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Re: Noir City Visits Chicago

Post by JackFavell »

OK OK! You guys are right, I am starting to sound way too much like those moms at school who can't understand why all the teachers and principals are picking on their poor dear Cody, who never did anything wrong (except go postal on the other kids), lol. I just enjoy the depth of the portrayal, and the way you can look at this movie in so many different ways.
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ChiO
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Re: Noir City Visits Chicago

Post by ChiO »

Hey! I wasn't trying to convince you...just giving my perspective.

But to quote my favorite news anchor interviewer, Stephen Colbert, "I accept your apology." :lol:
Everyday people...that's what's wrong with the world. -- Morgan Morgan
I love movies. But don't get me wrong. I hate Hollywood. -- Orson Welles
Movies can only go forward in spite of the motion picture industry. -- Orson Welles
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JackFavell
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Re: Noir City Visits Chicago

Post by JackFavell »

Ha! I understand, but I'll always see Hank as a bit of a traitor.
RedRiver
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Re: Noir City Visits Chicago

Post by RedRiver »

like those moms at school who can't understand why all the teachers and principals are picking on their poor dear Cody

Maybe that's my problem. I was bullied by those punks. If only Edmund O'Brien's son had gone to my school!
Mr. Arkadin
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Re: Noir City Visits Chicago

Post by Mr. Arkadin »

JackFavell wrote:OK OK! You guys are right, I am starting to sound way too much like those moms at school who can't understand why all the teachers and principals are picking on their poor dear Cody, who never did anything wrong (except go postal on the other kids), lol. I just enjoy the depth of the portrayal, and the way you can look at this movie in so many different ways.
I think you both make good points. Cody feels trapped in the impossible dreams Ma has created for him and even compelled by them. She is is the only thing he has ever known as a constant and her twisted love and loyalty is normalcy for him. However, Cody has clear understanding of right and wrong, as he chooses between friends and expenditures, even splitting 50/50 with Pardo, indicating murder is a choice--not an irresistible impulse. The results are an embodiment of evil with human frailty, making him a very complex character that we are repelled by, but still holding some remnants of humanity, which makes us want to understand him.

The betrayal is just as deep. While the movie has a sense of Shakespeare in the way its presented, and Cody exposes his weaknesses to Pardo (who takes advantage of them), Jarrett's zestful glee in killing (which is almost non stop in this 1949 film), creates a greater sympathy with those who fall into his hands, because we know he is a man with no remorse. Pardo ends his reign of terror by taking the place of Ma (who bore him and brought him into the world), so that he might destroy him.
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CineMaven
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Re: Noir City Visits Chicago

Post by CineMaven »

You know guys, I was thinking, yes, even very bad evil men can be betrayed... but the betrayal of Cody is nothing compared to the betrayal Mildred Pierce is rendered when she finds Veda and Monty in a clinch. I just revisited the movie, and that scene...that betrayal was so mind-numbing, so epic, it took my breath away.
"You build my gallows high, baby."

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RedRiver
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Re: Noir City Visits Chicago

Post by RedRiver »

Our local library has the HBO MILDRED PIERCE. I really should watch that. I'm very much a fan of the Curtiz film, but a five part series must certainly be a more detailed adaptation of the book, which I also liked.

The first time I saw "Cody vs. Pardo," I was about ten years old. Caught up in the secret agent craze of undercover agents of Her Majesty's (and UNCLE's) service; infiltrating enemy cells, winning the confidence of the villain. Maybe that culture made me more prone to support the suspense laden endeavors of "the coppers" in Walsh's fascinating piece.
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JackFavell
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Re: Noir City Visits Chicago

Post by JackFavell »

That was beautiful, Mr. Arkadin, thanks for weighing in on White Heat. You put it perfectly and now I don't feel so bad about my feelings. Plus it's great to hear from you!

With more and more exposure to certain movies, I find myself investigating films from different viewpoints. I'm in a Cody mode right now. LAst time through I was on a Verna kick. I know Maven does this too (and probably others of you) since one of her most memorable pieces about Leslie Crosbie in The Letter had a section from the viewpoint of Gale Sondergard's character, which completely opened that movie for me.
Mr. Arkadin
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Re: Noir City Visits Chicago

Post by Mr. Arkadin »

I've been working another job on weekends (and might start a third soon) to put food on the table. When I am home I'm usually working on the house (and sometimes fixing the table so I can put the food on it), so my time is really limited right now.

One thing that is also interesting about Cagney/O Brien's relationship is how it also has ties to the Greek story of the Trojan Horse, which is actually mentioned in the film. Just as Jarrett's gang hides inside a truck to gain access to the chemical plant, so too does Fallon change his persona to infilterate Cody's gang and beat him at his own game.
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JackFavell
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Re: Noir City Visits Chicago

Post by JackFavell »

Ooh, you are so smart.

Love the avatar, Jabez, keep on working hard on the homestead and don't go dancing with Belle. :D
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CineMaven
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Re: Noir City Visits Chicago

Post by CineMaven »

The CODY / HANK “debate” has been quite an interesting read. It’s more substantive than the old glass half-empty/half-full metaphor. Being open to seeing a time-honored classic film favorite in a different way, is a good way to walk a mile in someone else’s shoes. I really don’t mean to bring out all these time - worn cliches. What I’m trying to say ( poorly ) is that stretching oneself to seeing the other side’s p.o.v. is a good thing. Believe me, in general, I can NOT do that with ease and my mettle will be sorely tested as November rears its ugly head.

Hey JaxXxon, I am way flattered to have my writing cited, in at least some small way, in making someone look at something differently. Thank you. Thank you!
"You build my gallows high, baby."

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