Oland or Toler

Discussion of the actors, directors and film-makers who 'made it all happen'
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ken123
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Oland or Toler

Post by ken123 »

The best Charlie Chan. Roland Winters, who was the last Chan in the Monogram series and J.Carroll Naish who played the famous detective in a short run 1950s TV series need not to be included. :wink:
klondike

Re: Oland or Toler

Post by klondike »

The best Charlie Chan is the one that was never cast: an Asian man to portray an Asian detective.
Even in those past, distant decades, Blacks were playing Blacks, Latinos were playing Latinos, and even in the Charlie Chan films, supporting Asian characters were, for the most part, played by Asian actors.
I find watching men like Warner Oland, Peter Lorre, Paul Muni & Joseph Wiseman wearing transracial make-up and portraying characters of Asian descent to be ridiculous, nonsensical and often, embarrassing.
Breakfast at Tiffany's is one of my favorite film romances, but each time I watch it, I have to struggle past Mickey Rooney, with his rubber eyelids & prosthetic cartoon teeth, screaming his lisping pidgen English down through the bannisters. I close my eyes and will it to go by faster; in a movie that is so very smart, and hip, and tenderly poignant, why would the filmmakers descend to vulgar racial slapstick? It exhausts the practical imagination.
It's the same reason why I won't go near Cheyenne Autumn - Sal Mineo as an American Indian?!! :shock:
Me not think so, Kemo Sabe! :oops:
Do you like detective movies? Are you intrigued by Asian cultures? Look for an obscure though masterfully done TV movie from the mid-70's: Judge Dee & the Haunted Monastery. All Asian cast, set in 14th-century China, beautiful to look at, intelligent to listen to - and Khigh Deigh, formerly renowned as Chinese spy Wo Phat on "Hawaii Five-0", give a masterful performance in the title role.
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Joe Macclesfield
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Re: Oland or Toler

Post by Joe Macclesfield »

Looks like this one's being avoided, well--here goes. The contention that an Asian character MUST be portrayed by an Asian actor is (in my opinion) bunk! That's like saying an American character MUST be portrayed by an American actor, an English character, by an English actor! Phooey. My dad loved Warner Oland. My first Chan was Sidney Toler (Charlie Chan on Treasure Island). Later, I got to know Mr. Oland's Chan, and I do like him, but still prefer Toler. Dad probably preferred Oland because he was quiet, but sharp as a tack. Toler is less inclined to suffer fools gladly. Now I'll probably be lynched. But at least I've answered the original question.
"...Then as a bee, which among weeds doth fall,
Which seem sweet floures with lustre fresh and gay,
She lights on that, and this, and tasteth all,
But pleasd with none doth rise and sore away..."
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moira finnie
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Re: Oland or Toler

Post by moira finnie »

Nah, no lynch mobs here, Joe.

I tend to agree with you about the acting ability being more important than the ethnicity, but if they had wanted to make a politically correct Charlie Chan film back in the studio era with some fine Asian actors, perhaps a Sessue Hayakawa (who was Japanese) or Philip Ahn (who was Korean) might have played the part with great skill, but world politics led them away from Hollywood stardom to labor abroad or to be cast repeatedly as the personification of evil.

I think I like Warner Oland better than Toler as Chan. Oland seemed to be more bemused by those around him, (especially when Keye Luke was involved) and he was in one of the more enjoyable Chan films, Charlie Chan at the Opera (1936), which allowed the actor a chance to share the screen with a really great actor for once, Boris Karloff (aka Mr. Wong!!) Besides, the movie had a delightful pastiche of an opera written by Oscar Levant, of all people.

[youtube][/youtube]

Do you have a particularly favorite Sidney Toler movie that you would recommend as particularly choice, Joe?
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Joe Macclesfield
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Re: Oland or Toler

Post by Joe Macclesfield »

No overall favourite, Moira. But, there are many funny moments in the Chan pictures (both Oland's and Toler's). In RED DRAGON, a Monogram picture, Charlie is investigating a murder that occurs in baffling circumstances, in a locked room: Police Chief: "two shots heard, two bullets found. No gun. How can that be?" Chan: "Confucius could answer that." Chief: "Well...? Chan: "unfortunately, Confucius not here at moment!" And, a classic comes at the end of CHARLIE CHAN in MONTE CARLO. Charlie and Lee are trying to get the French waiter to bring them waffles for breakfast (a moment best seen to be appreciated).
"...Then as a bee, which among weeds doth fall,
Which seem sweet floures with lustre fresh and gay,
She lights on that, and this, and tasteth all,
But pleasd with none doth rise and sore away..."
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Rita Hayworth
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Re: Oland or Toler

Post by Rita Hayworth »

I prefer Warner Oland over Sidney Toler any day of the week and I have seen both of these actor portraying Charlie Chan and believe me - Warner plays it better and more well rounded than Sidney ever did. The problem with Toler is that most of his films as Charlie Chan were Public Domain and that alone made it very difficult for distribution and not as well known as Warner and he had one film as Public Domain called "Charlie Chan's Secret" back in 1936 and I haven't seen this film yet.

One more glaring omission here and we haven't discussed Roland Winters yet and I consider him a very good Charlie Chan and he made several movies as well in the forties and I have seen them all at my local theatre as a kid.
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Rita Hayworth
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Re: Oland or Toler

Post by Rita Hayworth »

Charlie Chan's Ratings ... per Actor

Warner Oland, most recognized and beloved Charlie Chan - a Solid A
Roland Winters, outstanding, but not as beloved as Oland - a Solid B
Sidney Toler, I consider him - incomplete because I did not see much of him at all and furthermore - I just can't grade him at all. But, he did give a good job with Charlie Chan.

Because of that, I would give the nod to Warner Oland because he was the first and had better notoriety and having said that - I have to give the nod to him as the best Charlie Chan ever.
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Joe Macclesfield
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Re: Oland or Toler

Post by Joe Macclesfield »

RH, Correction please. CHARLIE CHAN'S SECRET (1936) was an Oland picture. Toler wasn't cast as Chan till after Oland's death in August '38. My dad, Fred, would have shared your preference for Oland. He even remembered Oland as Fu Manchu!
"...Then as a bee, which among weeds doth fall,
Which seem sweet floures with lustre fresh and gay,
She lights on that, and this, and tasteth all,
But pleasd with none doth rise and sore away..."
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Rita Hayworth
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Re: Oland or Toler

Post by Rita Hayworth »

Joe Macclesfield wrote:RH, Correction please. CHARLIE CHAN'S SECRET (1936) was an Oland picture. Toler wasn't cast as Chan till after Oland's death in August '38. My dad, Fred, would have shared your preference for Oland. He even remembered Oland as Fu Manchu!

My Bad ... sorry about that! :)
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Joe Macclesfield
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Re: Oland or Toler

Post by Joe Macclesfield »

Moira, on the subject of Asian actors who could have portrayed Chan. I agree that Sessue Hayakawa and/or Philip Ahn would have been very good choices. But, would either actor have been popular enough to sustain a series in the way that Oland and Toler did? The first actors to play Chan in movies WERE Asian, and made little impression.
If the Japanese had tackled the subject, they could have employed the great Takashi Shimura. Probably best known to western audiences as the leader of the samurai in SEVEN SAMURAI.
"...Then as a bee, which among weeds doth fall,
Which seem sweet floures with lustre fresh and gay,
She lights on that, and this, and tasteth all,
But pleasd with none doth rise and sore away..."
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Joe Macclesfield
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Re: Oland or Toler

Post by Joe Macclesfield »

RH, That's one great photo of Rita you're using as an avatar!
"...Then as a bee, which among weeds doth fall,
Which seem sweet floures with lustre fresh and gay,
She lights on that, and this, and tasteth all,
But pleasd with none doth rise and sore away..."
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Rita Hayworth
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Re: Oland or Toler

Post by Rita Hayworth »

Joe Macclesfield wrote:RH, That's one great photo of Rita you're using as an avatar!
That's one of my favorite picture of her ... :)


Charlie Chan in Egypt - Part 1 of 4


Great Scenes in that Movie here ...


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Rita Hayworth
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Re: Oland or Toler

Post by Rita Hayworth »

Charlie Chan in Egypt - Part 2 of 4


Rita Hayworth was known as Rita Cansino back in 1935 when this movie was made.


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My favorite photo of Rita in 1935 when she did this movie.


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Rita Hayworth
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Re: Oland or Toler

Post by Rita Hayworth »

Charlie Chan in Egypt - Part 3 of 4


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Rita Cansino and Pat Paterson in Charlie Chan in Egypt.
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Rita Hayworth
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Re: Oland or Toler

Post by Rita Hayworth »

Charlie Chan in Egypt - Part 4 of 4


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Warner Oland as Charlie Chan and Rita Cansino as Nayda.


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With Pat Paterson as Carol Arnold with Warner Oland and Rita Cansino here.
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