Good afternoon everyone,
Yesterday on the NPR program "Fresh Air," I listened to an interview with a gentleman who was the prison chaplain at the Huntsville Unit of the Texas Department of Corrections for 16 years. He was the chaplain in attendance at 95 executions during those years. A documentary film has been made which details his experiences and interactions with the inmates while they were on death row as it's called.. The interview was fascinating and quite in depth. His name is Pastor Carroll Pickett and he holds several post graduate degrees including a doctorate in theology. To make a long story short, the documentary will premiere in the Independent Film Channel (IFC) on Thursday, May 29th. No time was given but I'm assuming that it will air at 8PM ET. It's titled "At the Death House Door" and promises to be extremely interesting for those who both agree and disagree with the use of capital punishment. I myself have mixed feelings about its' useThe film was produced and directed by Steve James, who you may recognize as the man behind "Hoop Dreams." The trailer is available at IFC.com and a written transcript of an interview with the Pastor is available at PBS.org. I hope that everyone gets the opportunity to see the film. Be sure to check the program guide in your area for the correct time to tune in. Once the film has aired, I'd love to start a discussion of it with my friends here at SSO.
As always,
Hollis
A new documentary on IFC, "At the Death House Door"
Good afternoon,
Now that this has run on IFC a couple of times, I was wondering what people thought of it. If you felt strongly one way or the other about capital punishment prior to seeing it, has it affected the way you feel about it now to any degree? Or even changed your mind completely? If you hadn't paid the topic much thought, did it give you cause to lean one way or the other? Or are you still up in the air about it? Or, (as I think many people feel) is it one of those subjects that you'd rather not think about at all? Because, in all honesty, it's not a pleasant matter to consider. We are talking about the possibility of taking someone's life. The humanity of the method, in my opinion, doesn't play much of a part in it at all because after all, dead is dead. If a convicted murder committed his crime in such a heinous manner that it goes far beyond merely offending your sensibilities, and caused his victim(s) to suffer so profoundly that death was a welcome release, should we be at all concerned with whether or not he/she experiences some temporary discomfort before he expires? I'd be very interested in what the folks here at SSO have to say. Someone may actually know a person on death row. Would that affect the way one feels? What if the victim were a member of your family or a close friend? Should the ancient Judeo Christian practice of "An eye for an eye" still be followed today regardless of any conflicting tenets like "Thou shalt not kill?" This could prove to be an interesting thread. I hope you'll participate.
I disapprove of the use of capital punishment but not because of any ethical or moral considerations. If it were me sitting there on death row, and I was still relatively young and in good health, nothing in my experience could conceivably be worse than waking up each morning knowing that I had absolutely no chance of ever leaving prison, of ever establishing or maintaining a normal relationship with anyone ever again, of seeing the sky overhead or of feeling the grass beneath my feet. Having all the things I've come to know and love taken away from me for as long as I was breathing, to me at least, would be a fate far worse than even the most painful of deaths. The way I see it, the total loss of freedom would most assuredly drive me insane, and in all likelihood, wouldn't take that long to happen. Twenty three hours a day in a solitary environment? Where nothing ever changes and tomorrow is an abstract concept at best? Like in Dante's Inferno, "Abandon hope, all ye who enter here." Given that there is no empirical data showing that the death penalty serves to deter the kinds of crimes that would warrant it, what use is it? My feeling is that lowering the felon to a level of utter desperation would be the worst kind of punishment and in most cases, exactly what the perpetrator deserves. Cost isn't even a consideration. Not when you see the U.S. government spending a billion dollars (billion with a B) a day on a war against a basically invisible enemy in Iraq. Seems like a blue light bargain. Believe me, your tax dollars have been spent on worse.
Well, that's my two cents for what it's worth. Jump on in.
As always,
Hollis
Now that this has run on IFC a couple of times, I was wondering what people thought of it. If you felt strongly one way or the other about capital punishment prior to seeing it, has it affected the way you feel about it now to any degree? Or even changed your mind completely? If you hadn't paid the topic much thought, did it give you cause to lean one way or the other? Or are you still up in the air about it? Or, (as I think many people feel) is it one of those subjects that you'd rather not think about at all? Because, in all honesty, it's not a pleasant matter to consider. We are talking about the possibility of taking someone's life. The humanity of the method, in my opinion, doesn't play much of a part in it at all because after all, dead is dead. If a convicted murder committed his crime in such a heinous manner that it goes far beyond merely offending your sensibilities, and caused his victim(s) to suffer so profoundly that death was a welcome release, should we be at all concerned with whether or not he/she experiences some temporary discomfort before he expires? I'd be very interested in what the folks here at SSO have to say. Someone may actually know a person on death row. Would that affect the way one feels? What if the victim were a member of your family or a close friend? Should the ancient Judeo Christian practice of "An eye for an eye" still be followed today regardless of any conflicting tenets like "Thou shalt not kill?" This could prove to be an interesting thread. I hope you'll participate.
I disapprove of the use of capital punishment but not because of any ethical or moral considerations. If it were me sitting there on death row, and I was still relatively young and in good health, nothing in my experience could conceivably be worse than waking up each morning knowing that I had absolutely no chance of ever leaving prison, of ever establishing or maintaining a normal relationship with anyone ever again, of seeing the sky overhead or of feeling the grass beneath my feet. Having all the things I've come to know and love taken away from me for as long as I was breathing, to me at least, would be a fate far worse than even the most painful of deaths. The way I see it, the total loss of freedom would most assuredly drive me insane, and in all likelihood, wouldn't take that long to happen. Twenty three hours a day in a solitary environment? Where nothing ever changes and tomorrow is an abstract concept at best? Like in Dante's Inferno, "Abandon hope, all ye who enter here." Given that there is no empirical data showing that the death penalty serves to deter the kinds of crimes that would warrant it, what use is it? My feeling is that lowering the felon to a level of utter desperation would be the worst kind of punishment and in most cases, exactly what the perpetrator deserves. Cost isn't even a consideration. Not when you see the U.S. government spending a billion dollars (billion with a B) a day on a war against a basically invisible enemy in Iraq. Seems like a blue light bargain. Believe me, your tax dollars have been spent on worse.
Well, that's my two cents for what it's worth. Jump on in.
As always,
Hollis
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moira finnie
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I've only seen a few minutes of the documentary At the Death House Door, which were more than enough for me, Hollis.
I'm a real wimp when it comes to real life violence or explicit descriptions of it, (which is pretty ironic too, since I have a sister who's nuts about all those forensic crime shows that dwell on violence so much. How did that happen??). Prior to seeing this recent doc on IFC I'd read Sister Helen Prejean's book about ministering to those on death row and the victim's families, ( which formed the basis of the movie Dead Man Walking) & I'd seen parts of Errol Morris' doc, Mr. Death: The Rise and Fall of Fred A. Leuchter, Jr. (1999). I've also been acquainted with a couple of lawyers who do pro bono work for The Innocence Project. So, I guess I have my own mind pretty much made up about this by now, despite the fact that I've experienced violent crime first hand myself on more than one occasion (just lucky, I guess
).
My rationale for being against the death penalty is primarily based on the observation that since all human institutions are flawed, how can the justice system be any different? I believe that many innocent people have been executed.
Many people who've committed violent crimes need to be kept away from society and, as you pointed out, a lifetime of incarceration is one helluva horrible death sentence. Rehabilitation does occur, though rare. I don't think I want to live in a society that really believes no one can change, though I sometimes think that America is veering that way.
I also don't believe that the state should be involved in executions, for many personal and ethical reasons. The real issues that cause violence aren't, I believe, solvable through money, legislation or good intentions. Instead, it might be ameliorated by a structured home to grow up in with two parents, ethical and moral training at a young age, and a well developed sense of empathy, (or if you want other terms for it, a super-ego, conscience, or sense of community). Again, the fostering of these elusive qualities might help curb the tendency to hurt others. Even then, there are no guarantees, but we might want to give it a try, though I think the urge toward violence will always be within each of us.
That's just my two cents, for what it's worth, which ain't much, Hollis, but thanks for listening. As usual, your posts always evoke more reflective thought than is ordinary, friend.
I'm a real wimp when it comes to real life violence or explicit descriptions of it, (which is pretty ironic too, since I have a sister who's nuts about all those forensic crime shows that dwell on violence so much. How did that happen??). Prior to seeing this recent doc on IFC I'd read Sister Helen Prejean's book about ministering to those on death row and the victim's families, ( which formed the basis of the movie Dead Man Walking) & I'd seen parts of Errol Morris' doc, Mr. Death: The Rise and Fall of Fred A. Leuchter, Jr. (1999). I've also been acquainted with a couple of lawyers who do pro bono work for The Innocence Project. So, I guess I have my own mind pretty much made up about this by now, despite the fact that I've experienced violent crime first hand myself on more than one occasion (just lucky, I guess
). My rationale for being against the death penalty is primarily based on the observation that since all human institutions are flawed, how can the justice system be any different? I believe that many innocent people have been executed.
Many people who've committed violent crimes need to be kept away from society and, as you pointed out, a lifetime of incarceration is one helluva horrible death sentence. Rehabilitation does occur, though rare. I don't think I want to live in a society that really believes no one can change, though I sometimes think that America is veering that way.
I also don't believe that the state should be involved in executions, for many personal and ethical reasons. The real issues that cause violence aren't, I believe, solvable through money, legislation or good intentions. Instead, it might be ameliorated by a structured home to grow up in with two parents, ethical and moral training at a young age, and a well developed sense of empathy, (or if you want other terms for it, a super-ego, conscience, or sense of community). Again, the fostering of these elusive qualities might help curb the tendency to hurt others. Even then, there are no guarantees, but we might want to give it a try, though I think the urge toward violence will always be within each of us.
That's just my two cents, for what it's worth, which ain't much, Hollis, but thanks for listening. As usual, your posts always evoke more reflective thought than is ordinary, friend.
Hollis:
There are times when your answers image mine so closely that I decide not to respond because then I would sound like the proverbial mag-pie. In this case however from "If it were me sitting there on death row, and I was still relatively young and in good health, nothing in my experience . . . tomorrow is an abstract concept at best?" You have matched my opinion 'in perfecto' (only you use better words and expressions).
I have often wondered why such simple points did not take precedence in arguments of pro and con - the death penalty. If a person is electrocuted, hung, or innoculated, even with several months of waiting on death row, after a few minutes of fear and pleas for forgiveness, it's over and his or her trials are over and done with. But, if my sister, mother, daughter, father, brother, or son had been harmed or killed, I think I would feel a lot more closure if I woke up every morning knowing life was going on for the person responsible just as Hollis described. That would be a true death sentence.
Anne
There are times when your answers image mine so closely that I decide not to respond because then I would sound like the proverbial mag-pie. In this case however from "If it were me sitting there on death row, and I was still relatively young and in good health, nothing in my experience . . . tomorrow is an abstract concept at best?" You have matched my opinion 'in perfecto' (only you use better words and expressions).
I have often wondered why such simple points did not take precedence in arguments of pro and con - the death penalty. If a person is electrocuted, hung, or innoculated, even with several months of waiting on death row, after a few minutes of fear and pleas for forgiveness, it's over and his or her trials are over and done with. But, if my sister, mother, daughter, father, brother, or son had been harmed or killed, I think I would feel a lot more closure if I woke up every morning knowing life was going on for the person responsible just as Hollis described. That would be a true death sentence.
Anne
Anne
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Mr. O'Brady
- Posts: 123
- Joined: April 3rd, 2008, 10:06 pm
Sorry I missed it, Hollis. I was out of town, and have also been watching the Women's College World Series religiously. I've always been firmly against the death penalty. I equate it with revenge, not justice, not punishment. If I were to catch someone in the act of murder, rape, injury to a child, etc., I can't say I wouldn't do whatever it took to stop it, but once the crime is over, all that remains is a desire for revenge, which I abhor. Life without parole is punishment enough. And for those making the biblical argument for the death penalty, I always counter that Jesus overturned the stoning of the adulterous woman. Now, back to the WCWS!
Last edited by Mr. O'Brady on July 14th, 2008, 6:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Mr. O'Brady
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Thanks for the heads-up on the re-broadcast, Hollis. It didn't change my mind at all, just made me angrier. I had a friend in college from Huntsville, and his stories of the partying ouside the prison walls are still with me. 
Makes me really Texas-proud. Fortunately, I'll never sit on a death row jury because of my vehement opposition to killing, state-sponsored or otherwise.
What bothers me most about Pickett and Prejean is that by participating in the process, they're justifying it, no matter their views on the death penalty. I don't think I could do the same.
Makes me really Texas-proud. Fortunately, I'll never sit on a death row jury because of my vehement opposition to killing, state-sponsored or otherwise.What bothers me most about Pickett and Prejean is that by participating in the process, they're justifying it, no matter their views on the death penalty. I don't think I could do the same.