Stanwyck and Davis - Big Competitors

[mrsl]

I know that Bette Davis was with Warners most of her career, but Barbara Stanwyck was independent wasn't she? It seems to me that in the late 40's and through the 50's, if BS had been under contract to any one studio, there would probably have been some good wars going on between the two of them over who got to play what.

During that time, both ladies played strong willed, hard bitten and formidable women on screen. If you look at the roles done by BS today, Clash by Night, Sorry Wrong Number, Double Jeopardy, Mrs. Carroll, and a few others, I can see Bette Davis also doing them, although I prefer Barbara. On the other hand, I can also see BS in The Letter, Dark Victory, Now Voyager, and even All About Eve, and again, they are definitely Bettes' movies, but I think if Barbara played those roles - they would be hers in the same respect.

Both ladies had the same grit and passion, and I think, after seeing the whole day of Barbara, the two ladies were interchangeable.

Anyone else?

Anne

[sugarpuss]

I think Robert Osborne said after Annie Oakley that Barbara had contracts at four different studios in the 30's. At some point, she probably went independent though.

I don't think Bette and Babs were interchangeable. There's no way I could see Bette doing Ball of Fire, The Lady Eve, Meet John Doe or even Double Indemnity. Romantic comedies were not Bette's strong point. In fact, I think the only one that she did was The Bride Came C.O.D. and that's okay, but not great.

I love both actresses (Bette, Barbara and Katharine Hepburn are my three all time favorites), but I always thought that Bette's characters are more "high class", while Barbara did "low class" gals quite well. I was amazed by Babs in Jeopardy--she starts the movie out as a sweet, loving surburban housewife and then turns into a tough broad as soon as she's taken captive by Ralph Meeker. That movie became interesting as soon as those two met. I kind of wanted her to dump Barry Sullivan--I thought he was kind of wimpy. Clearly, I have a thing for the bad ones. I wanted them to run off together.

I think BS and BD did have some roles that could be interchangable--I could see Barbara in something like The Letter, while I think Bette would have been great in Sorry, Wrong Number. But there's no way I could see BS in All About Eve. It's one of the cattiest movies ever made and no one could play that as good as Bette--the queen of cattiness. Likewise, I couldn't see BS in something like Baby Jane or Hush, Hush Sweet Charlotte. Bette was more of a woman's movies actress, while Barbara fit in almost every genre--westerns, comedies, dramas, etc.

Honestly, I could see Bette being more interchangable with Joan Crawford, although that comment probably just caused both ladies to roll over in their graves.

[Moraldo Rubini]

Sugarpuss said:

don't think Bette and Babs were interchangeable. There's no way I could see Bette doing Ball of Fire, The Lady Eve, Meet John Doe or even Double Indemnity. Romantic comedies were not Bette's strong point. In fact, I think the only one that she did was The Bride Came C.O.D. and that's okay, but not great.

Let's not forget Old Acquaintances. When I saw this, I was very surprised at Bette Davis' comic touch. It made me long for more of these characters in her repetoire.

[mrsl]

I'm glad you corrected me on Double Indemnity and Jeopardy, I usually check those things out before typing them, but was lazy last night. I agree that there are some movies they couldn't have replaced each other in, but my own cattiness comes out when I say Barbara was too classy to do something like Baby Jane, or Charlotte.

It seems to me Barbara rode with the wind and aged gracefully, whereas those movies were attempts at staying in the public eye for Crawford and Davis, who had not yet accepted the years. Olivia was another one who aged gracefully and took on mothers' roles, so Charlotte was a camp thing for her to do.

I CAN, however, SEE Barbara standing on those steps in that red dress stating "Fasten your seatbelts, it's gonna be a bumpy night"! BS definitely had the temerity to play Margo with equal vim, vigor and vitality - IMHO. Ahh, this wonderful ability to have differing opinions, huh? Don't forget Bette in The Man Who Came to Dinner, or June Bride, both were comedies and she fit in quite well.

Obviously I prefer BS, fan-wise, but don't take anything away from BD, because they are both great actresses, of which we'll never see the likes again. Being only one year apart in age however, BS kept her glamorous image 'way into her 70's, where BD did dumpier and dumpier parts. BS even made a movie with Elvis wherein she still looked good enough to have a love affair with Leif Ericson, and I'm sure any young man would be happy to have their mother look as good as she did in her 60's in The Big Valley.

All said, I thoroughly enjoyed yesterday's birthday tribute to Barbara, as I know I will again enjoy the next Bette day.

Anne

[sugarpuss]

Ah, I forgot Old Acquaintances, June Bride and The Man Who Came to Dinner. I should refrain from late-night typing!

I agree with you that Barbara was too classy to play the roles that both Joan and Bette did in their later years--she turned down Mary Astor's role in Hush Hush Sweet Charlotte. DeHavilland did two disaster movies in the 70's and Kate Hepburn remained pretty unscathed as well.

What worked in BS's favor was that she did Westerns well: she lucked out with The Big Valley instead of wallowing in some of the junk that BD did (Three words: Bunny O'Hare). Not to mention she looks absolutely stunning in TBV and even in The Thorn Birds--just as good as she looked when she was younger! Not many actresses can say that when they reach their 60's and 70's. Honestly, I'm amazed to realize that she and BD were only a year apart.

As I was going to bed last night, I realized that BS would have been fantastic in Of Human Bondage. Not as good as Bette, but certainly great. I don't know if anyone could pull off that, "It made me sick when I had to kiss you!" line with such hatred and venom that BD did.

[jdb1]

I don't believe that Stanwyck was a contract player for any studio. That doesn't mean she didn't have contract with studios, just that they were per picture, not exclusively to any studio. I can see where Bette and Barbara could interchange on certain roles, but Stanwyck, for me, the more versitile actress. She's the most watchable movie star who ever was, imo.

John, you have voiced what I've been thinking: Davis was a terrific actress, but I don't think she was very versitile. She was essentially the same in every role, but her charisma, intelligence, and sheer force of personality kept us all coming back for more.

On the other hand, I remember thinking a few months ago when TCM ran all those older Stanwyck films all day that she, like Katharine Hepburn, was featured in a remarkably wide variety of roles early in her career, and she played them all believably. As has been said - can anyone really imagine Davis in "Ball of Fire?" She was much too mannered an actress to let loose the way Stanwyck could. I'm finding that I appreciate Stanwyck more and more, and it's been wonderful to see her earlier work on TCM, most of which I'm seeing now for the first time. (And I'm not just saying that because Stanwyck came from Brooklyn!)

[pktrekgirl]

^ I agree with your assessment of Bette Davis. She was very good...but not very versatile. She excelled at catty and devious sorts of women - women who underneath a well-bred exterior were mean and spiteful.

Most of Babs' 'bad girl' characters, in contrast, were much more up-front about their lack of morals and/or integrity. They were bad girls...but not often hidden under a 'good girl' facade. They were just bad, and made no bones about it.

And Babs was also good at many other sorts of roles - romantic comedies, women on the brink, etc.

I like Bette Davis...but Babs is my favorite. I think that even as highly thought of as she is among many classic film fans, she is underrated. IMO, she was the all-around best actress in classic Hollywood.

[cmvgor]

Robert Osborne had an interesting factoid re Ms. Davis in the afterword to
The High And The Mighty when it aired last week. He mentioned her as one of the people who had been approached about taking a role in that near-disaster flick. No-go, on the principal that she did not do ensemble acting. Too many scenes with her not in them, to many minutes
of running time with people other than her on the screen, -- she didn't work that way.

Osborne said the same about Spencer Tracy. John Wayne was origionally aboard only as Producer, but wound up taking the pilot role, because Tracy wouldn't take a role that small.