Hign Noon

nightwalker
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Post by nightwalker »

Actually, I understand that the film was already completed and was felt to be "missing something," so the title tune was commissioned, recorded and added as something of an afterthought.
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Sue Sue Applegate
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Post by Sue Sue Applegate »

I didn't realize that. Thanks, nightwalker. I had read earlier in the thread about Stanley Kramer and how he liked it, though, as MikeBSG said. And I still enjoy it. I just didn't feel it was a good fit with the storyline.
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Post by pktrekgirl »

Well, I am stunned that anyone would think Will Kane 'cowardly'. I mean, if he was cowardly, he would have left town, like everyone was telling him to do. He had a perfect right - it was his wedding day and he technically wasn't even sheriff anymore. But the whole POINT was that he didn't leave town, but stayed to face the man he had put away to begin with - AND his gang.

That he wanted help in facing an entire gang of bad guys is not cowardly - it is realistic. It's one thing to be brave, and quite another to be foolhardy, after all. And further, that is why you HAVE deputies - not so they can sit around drinking coffee until the first glimpse of trouble...and then promptly resign. :roll:

The whole point of the film is to show the cowardliness of the rest of the town - and how that, rather than work to save their own town, they were willing to hide in their closets and let someone else do their fighting for them. And worse, be under the thumb of a bunch of thugs if that 'someone else' lost, as he likely would in a fight against odds like that.

Will Kane was willing to die in a gunfight he couldn't possibly win on his own, rather than leave town - which he could easily have done and been totally justified in doing. And in my mind, that is anything BUT cowardly.

Personally, I think this is a very well done film - Gary Cooper or no. The writing kept me on the edge of my seat the entire time...except when I was gaging over what a bunch of weenies the townspeople were.

I loved the ending, when. in disgust, he threw his badge in the dirt and left. Why continue to fight for these cowards, if they weren't willing to fight for themselves?
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Post by movieman1957 »

pktrekgirl wrote:
I loved the ending, when. in disgust, he threw his badge in the dirt and left. Why continue to fight for these cowards, if they weren't willing to fight for themselves?
And I think most anyone would leave. It is quite a different approach when there seem to be plenty of westerns where the town does want to help. They just need to find the right guy/group to lead them.
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Post by Sue Sue Applegate »

High Noon was a great Coop role. The tension, the confusion, the decisions, and the exasperation ...he was the last sane man in a fearful place. I'd throw my badge down in disgust, too.
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Re: Hign Noon

Post by Vienna »

Good to hear different opinions so I'll chip in mine.I think HIGH NOON is perfect, not a minute wasted , you keep watching that clock. I can listen to Tex Ritter's song till the cows come one. For me it adds so much to the film.
And black and white seems so right too.
A great little cameo for Lon Chaney as the world weary, retired sheriff.
I agree with MikeBSG that the main outlaw was disappointing. Lee Marvin was needed!
I didn't think there was much chemistry between Gary Cooper and Grace Kelly and agree Gary seemed better suited to Katy Jurado.
As for all the folklore about Howard Hawks and Rio Bravo, I don't know how much is true. Personally I love both films but find them very different. Rio Bravo has a lighter tone, but High Noon is the one that lingers in my memory. That ending - Will Kane had thought the townsfolk were his friends. When you see him drop the sheriff's badge to the ground while they all watch, I want to cheer. They don't deserve him.
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Re: Hign Noon

Post by tinker »

As for all the folklore about Howard Hawks and Rio Bravo, I don't know how much is true. Personally I love both films but find them very different. Rio Bravo has a lighter tone, but High Noon is the one that lingers in my memory. That ending - Will Kane had thought the townsfolk were his friends. When you see him drop the sheriff's badge to the ground while they all watch, I want to cheer. They don't deserve him.
I like them both too. I think they would both make my top ten and I find it one of the intricacies of film making that both films can present two very reasonable and conflicting views of the same premise and you can watch and enjoy both without needing to commit to either view.

Will Kane is a man it hurts to watch and we all like to think we would be the townsperson who didn't act that way but we won't know will we?Notice though it is not a very kind film to men, many of the females in the church and of course the leads come out well.

I rather like that up to getting on the train Amy is almost representing the town and what they want to be and the unforving and cowardly nature of civilisation, until the first shot and she does not hesitate, unlike the town. She just just jumps up and runs back to help Will. And the point is made that Will only survived because she helped him. Its not like he was running around town asking for help when he did not need it.

The scene where Will Kane puts hos head down and almost cries and then is embarrassed when he realises he is being watched is one of Gary Cooper's finest for me.


Katy Jurado is splendid. I did hear or read somewher( was it in the commentary) that Cooper's character was not originally called Kane but Katy Juarado had trouble pronouncing the other one so they changed it. One of those "accidents" that was meant to be


dee
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Re: Hign Noon

Post by Western Guy »

You know, as a Western fan and author of cowboy books I have mixed feelings about this one. I do enjoy the build-up (particularly the scene with Lon Chaney as the elder of the two, though in actuality Lon was five years younger than Coop - a scene I still maintain should have given Lon an Academy Award nomination), yet the final showdown for some reason has always disappointed me. Even when I first saw this back when I was around thirteen years of age, I found it somewhat of a letdown. Just didn't catch fire. Almost . . . dare I say, boring and anti-climactic.

I'm sure I'll meet with disagreement here.
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Re: Hign Noon

Post by tinker »

Western Guy

Much as I love the film, I can understand why the end can seem like a let down. Some one said it really needed a villain like Lee Marvin and I agree because Frank Miller was a bit of a letdown. Maybe they should have let Lee Van Cleef play Frank Miller as , Ian McDonald just doesn't have the presence, and Ben Miller breaking the window for that hat was a bit... stupid and the geography of the bad guys being in that alley way was a bit off.

I am not sure how they could have done the ending other than the hide and seek though. Will would have had to die if they did the face off in the street so the ending would have had to be guilty townsfolk looking down at his dead body. Not as big a message as the badge in the dirt.

dee
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Re: Hign Noon

Post by Western Guy »

Dee, the potential certainly is there but the shootout, to me, is just darn dull. I keep on expecting for something a little more exciting that just doesn't develop. Bang, bang, dead, dead -- ho -hum.

Yes, dee, perhaps a bit more character development with the key outlaw, a la Lee Marvin. I mean, Frank Miller overall just comes across as a plot prop.
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Re: Hign Noon

Post by mrsl »

.

I was never a big Cooper fan and I guess learning that he named names at the HUAC kind of darkened my feelings about him even more, but nonetheless, I do think he was pretty good in High Noon, although I don't think it was Oscar worthy. This post however, is more about the mis-pairing of Coop and Grace Kelly. I watched the movie this morning from beginning to end, and the age difference really socks you in the beginning when they are riding away from town after hearing about Frank Miller coming back, and at the end when, again they are riding away from town after it's all over. The lined face of Coop is accentuated against the clear, pristine complexion of Grace. They didn't necessarily have to match Coop's age, but a more mature looking woman like Rita Hayworth (also sporting a few lines and grey hairs of her own), would have made more of an impact to the story line. I believer that's why so many people, me included, felt the part of the new wife was just an add-on of sorts.
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Re: Hign Noon

Post by moira finnie »

mrsl wrote:.

I was never a big Cooper fan and I guess learning that he named names at the HUAC kind of darkened my feelings about him even more.
Actually, Gary Cooper did not name a single name when he appeared before HUAC, though he was considered a "friendly witness." Cooper was quite right wing without being a rabid Commie chaser, and may have hoped that his testimony would mollify HUAC and prevent further intrusions into Hollywood activities. Unlike the fervent and quasi-hysterical testimony of individuals such as Adophe Menjou, Cooper's testimony was even regarded by members of the Hollywood Ten such as screenwriter Ring Lardner, Jr. and director Edward Dmytryk as doing the "least harm possible" to those being scrutinized during this shameful period. Cooper instead exhibited his patented, somewhat practiced charm when fielding questions and came across as a naif who was endearingly confused. Ultimately his star status and his rather calm demeanor before the committee, reiterating his belief "in my country right or wrong" and admitting that he had never read Das Kapital or any avowedly Communist literature, deflected them from probing further. He was deliberately vague about his memories of who and when he encountered things that might have been interpreted as Communist in origin. As you can read in this detailed excerpt from his testimony, he cites one script that he did not consent to do because it featured him at the head of a civilian "army" against war (this may have been an early draft of the Meet John Doe script), but he says he can't remember titles or names of those connected with such material.

In actual fact, when HIgh Noon screenwriter Carl Foreman was revealed as a ten year member of the Communist Party (when it was perfectly legal to be a member in the U.S.), fearful producer Stanley Kramer attempted to have his name and presence removed entirely from the production. Director Fred Zinnemann, Kramer business associate Bruce Church and Cooper worked together to prevent Foreman's dismissal and to retain his credits on the picture, though Foreman eventually left for the UK after his former CP membership became an issue that prevented his employment in the immediate future in Hollywood.

Much more about this period and Cooper's life can be read in histories and biographies of the period such as The Committee by Walter Goodman, Naming Names by Victor Navasky, and Gary Cooper, American Hero by Jeffrey Meyers.
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Vienna
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Re: Hign Noon

Post by Vienna »

How interesting to read part of Gary Cooper's testimony before the HUAC committee. Thank you.
I still think there is a great movie movie to be made about this period in Hollywood history. There have been a few movies on the subject but none that did it justice.
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Re: Hign Noon

Post by RedRiver »

Quite frankly, you have to look pretty darned close to see the now famed allegories in HIGN NOON. It's Lawman vs. badguys, for Heaven's sake!
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Re: Hign Noon

Post by mrsl »

Red:
That's how I felt, and I apologize for what I said earlier about Coop and the HUAC. You can't always believe what you read on the internet I guess. It was only recently that I read that bit about Coop naming names, and now I realize it was totally inaccurate.

Anne


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