Red River

[Rita Hayworth]

Interesting Reading ... from Jack Favell and Red River ... I see why Montgomery Cliff did so well in this movie. Howard Hawks did a good job with him. Thanks for sharing it.

[JackFavell]

He did, didn't he, kingme? Of course Clift brought considerable talent to the production, as is seen when comparing some of the younger performers in later Hawks films. He really had a gift for taking what Hawks said and running with it, far beyond what most actors would do.

[RedRiver]

He was SO smart to tell him not to play tough

Get tough with John Wayne? Are we kidding? A friend and I used to watch THE HORSE SOLDIERS together. Every time we saw the scene where Wayne hits William Holden, we'd say, "He's dead!" and burst out laughing. Get tough with John Wayne!

[RedRiver]

Given my user name, I'm not likely to say, "Gee. I don't really care for this movie!"

[JackFavell]

Ha! I can picture that! Too funny!

[charliechaplinfan]

It's hard to believe it was Monty's first movie and if there was a ever an actor who looked less like a cowboy it was Montgomery Clift. I find him terrifically nuanced as an actor which I think contrasted him even more with John Wayne who is always John Wayne cowboy for me, that's how the public liked him. Clift was very skilled even when starting out, he'd worked tremendously hard on the stage of course and he brought this work ethos to Hollywood but to land Howard Hawks as your first director is a gift. I'm sure Monty must have had film offers before this but perhaps he was just canny enough to wait for the right director and script and in Red River he got one of the best screen debuts parts of any actor. Another life cut tragically short but at least he was quite prolific, at least in the early years in movies.

[Rita Hayworth]

He did, didn't he, kingme? Of course Clift brought considerable talent to the production, as is seen when comparing some of the younger performers in later Hawks films. He really had a gift for taking what Hawks said and running with it, far beyond what most actors would do.

I wished I reworded that post ... but its been read several times and I decided to leave it alone. I meant to say what you said at end in a different light of things. Your post here is well said and I can see why you wrote it.

[JackFavell]

It's all good, kingme, I think we all understood that it was no slam against Montgomery Clift, just that Hawks and Clift were both lucky to have each other on this movie.

[mrsl]

.
Like most people, I found the ending of this movie kind of disappointing but when it was remade recently for T.V. starring Bruce Boxlietner and Jim Arness, I'm pretty sure the ending was changed just a bit. The bad thing is, I can't recall how it was changed. It will be repeated again soon enough I'm sure, and at that time I'll pull this thread up and say what happens unless someone else has seen the remake and can explain the ending.
.

[tinker]

Red River is also a great favourite, although and this is ridiculous I know, I dislike the ending so much I usually stop the disc before it ends. I still don't get the widow's weeds either, I don't understand what Hawkes was trying to do.

But other parts are special. The beginning when Dunstan leaves his girl, the crossing the river with the cattle, the drive into town with the cattle.

Of course John Wayne is amazing in the film, but it is my favourite Monty Clift film.He bought something to the role, a sort of fragility that a "real" cowboy could not have done which makes the mutiny all the more powerful. If he had chewed up the scenery Mat would not have had you really worried for him. The only slightly discordant note (for me) was that Monty was not a very good rider. He leans forward a bit when he is trying to the horse to canter (lope). He got better but still got blown off the screen by better riders.

I never can figure out. Was Cherry killed by Dunstan or just wounded.

dee

[charliechaplinfan]

I never noticed he wasn't a good rider, I thought he looked good in the saddle but I don't really know about these things. It's one of my favourite Monty films too, he made many that I could watch again and again.

[tinker]

A lot of actors look good by sitting up or because they are put on horses that know the routine but they cannot really ride.

Robert Fuller tells a funny story about how he was sitting quietly reading a script on Laramie and he saw the chief wrangler put a "New York" actor on the resident look good horse Daisy. As the "New York" actor nervously gets on Fuller calls out to the wrangler "I thought no-one was going to ride Dynamite any more"

Noah Berry was a very good rider in Red River and Walter Brennan made the point of turning his head driving across the River to show it was him in the wagon but I think someone else drove it in. John Wayne was a pretty good rider but he was also riding Banner his favourite "early" horse so he had the combination of being a pretty good rider using a super horse. Banner is also in Angel and the Badman and Rio Grande.


dee

[JackFavell]

I'm curious what you think of Glenn Ford. He's got a reputation for being a good rider but he uses that weird arms up stance. Otherwise he looks really relaxed and let's his body go with the flow. Is that the secret to good horsemanship? Maybe you can show us non riders a few pointers in how to tell if a rider is any good?

[movieman1957]

You could always tell it was Ford by those arms. I don't know if it was for balance. I can't quite get that it was for looks. Whatever I saw him ride in he looked at the very least competent. I can't say that he was as smooth as Scott, McCrea, Cooper or Wayne but I don't think he was a slouch.

[tinker]

I think sometimes "looking good" is a give away because the actor is using his body to imitate someone riding, rather than working with the horse. One with the horse.

As for Glen Ford's arms. Some very good riders have very bad habits. Their balance is so good they get away with it. Ben Johnston rode on a very long rein with high hands which for anyone else would be a temptation to yank the bit around and really hurt the horse, but his balance is so good and he is so "with" the horse it never happens. Sometimes the good rider bit shows because they just don't bother to concentrate on "looking good" they adjust themselves to the horse rather than the other way around. Watch Frank McGrath (the bugler) on his rearing horse in She Wore a Yellow Ribbon. Hank Worden as in Red River was really good but he doesn't pretend to sit up and "look good". I think he was a professional rider though.

Signs of not good riding is the horse tossing its head in the air or opening its mouth. That is an ouch, the rider is balancing using the reins. Riders leaning forward is also a sign, or the horse not immediately going into a lope (or canter) but taking a few steps or bouncing if the horse goes out of a shuffle trot. Anyone who canters down hill is usually pretty good. Going fast downhill is dangerous. Galloping on flat ground is pretty safe, although stopping can be dodgy. (Horse stops you don't).

dee