Eve Golden on Jean Harlow, Theda Bara, The Castles & More

Past chats with our guests.
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mongoII
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Post by mongoII »

Hello again, Eve. I'm enjoying many of your humorous responses to the many questions asked on this thread. I know I would have enjoyed the company of Sylvia Sidney.

Once and for all can you explain, in layman's terms, what caused the death of blonde bombshell Jean Harlow?

And did the romeo Morino Bello and Jean's mother live happily ever after?

Thanks,

Joe
Joseph Goodheart
egolden
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Post by egolden »

moirafinnie wrote:In reading several of your entertaining books, I'm struck by some recurrent themes, particularly by the way that the theatre and movies offered young women an opportunity to express themselves. I thought that this element was especially evident in the the books Anna Held and the Birth of Ziegfeld's Broadway and Vamp: The Rise and Fall of Theda Bara. The sometimes outrageous, picaresque adventures of these two live wires seemed to help them escape the ingrained prejudices against both women and Jewish citizens in this country and abroad while enabling them to elude conventional female status--for a time, at least. Do you think that they were consciously making these choices, or, as in the Anna Held's case, was it just a matter of circumstance?

When the public became aware of the origins of these truly plucky young women, do you think their adventurous, and in some ways groundbreaking public lives, helped women in general and altered anti-Semitic attitudes?

I was wondering what led you to explore Anna Held? Have you seen the fragments of 1901 film said to be in the Library of Congress showing Held sipping champagne, (I believe this sequence is drawn from her musical hit, "Papa's Bride")?

Thank you.
Hmmm. I think it was Anna Held's incredible drive, ambition and energy; and Theda's intelligence and a bit of luck and drifting. I don't think Theda was as driven as Anna: she would have been happy as a professor, a museum curator, maybe a library archivist--Theda was very intellctual and a bit of a wallflower. I don't think she and "movie stardom" were a comfortable fit.

On the other hand, Theda (born in 1885 in the Midwest) was very open about being both Jewish and a feminist, while Anna (born c1870 in Poland) was terrified of her Jewish heritage getting out (her family had escaped the pogroms) and was emphatically not a feminist (though she accomplished so much that she was actually a feminist despite herself).

Odd thing is, I was "sucked into" the lives of Theda and Anna though photos: I remember seeing a photo of Anna in Time magazine and of Theda in my older sister's Teen when I was a kid, maybe less than ten years old. "Zowie--who the hell are these women?" I thought.
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Post by egolden »

charliechaplinfan wrote:Kay towered over Gene in their solo number but the thing that struck me the most and Eve might know the answer to is how small Kay's waist was. Was she famous for this? Even allowing for fifties underwear her shape was very hourglass.

Eve, in relation to Jean Harlow who I love on the screen but have yet to read a good biography of her (at least I know where to get one now :D ) in the meantime I've read various theories as to whether Paul Bern committed suicide or was murdered. Do you have a firm theory on this? I've always favoured suicide but I'm not convinced by the offiical story.
Kay was scrawny. She shot up to her full height as a pre-teenager, and was always underweight and anemic. Any hourglass shape on her (like Anna Held) was padding, not cinching! She claimed to be very jealous of the pillowy Marilyn Monroe types in the 1950s, though she fit in very well with the swanlike Audrey Hepburn type.

I'm gonna go with one of my "I dunnos" for Paul Bern. Only three people (maybe two) know what happened that night: Paul, Jean and Dorothy. I think probably Paul and Dorothy had a showdown that night (Jean may or may not have been present), Paul shot himself and poor Dorothy went off to drown herself. One theory I put forth (which no one ever seems to have commented on!) is that Paul's "Dearest Dear" suicide note may have been aimed to Dorothy, not Jean--or more likely to both of them. Why else no name?
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Post by egolden »

mongoII wrote:Once and for all can you explain, in layman's terms, what caused the death of blonde bombshell Jean Harlow?

And did the romeo Morino Bello and Jean's mother live happily ever after?
Jean died from kidney failure, over a period of about six months (looking back, the symptoms are obvious). There were no practical antibiotics then, and there was nothing to be done for advanced kidney failure; by March '37 she was pretty much screwed. What caused the kidney failure is up for debate (chronic? an illness? heredity?) and we'll really never know that. Jean's mother was not a Christian Scientist, by the way, she was the one who insisted Jean see doctors!

Sadly, there was no happily ever after for Marino or Jean's mother--they divorced, and Jean's mother (who had no other children) had to sell off Jean's belongings and take odd jobs to survive. I don't think she ever really got over losing Jean, they had a mother/daughter complex that belonged in the Smithsonian under glass.
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Post by MissGoddess »

For anyone curious to investigate Rexy's sexiness, the Museum of Modern Art in New York is making him the subject of a retrospective in honor of his centenary this month:

http://www.moma.org/exhibitions/film_ex ... hp?id=7841

I thought he was very sexy as the sea Captain in The Ghost and Mrs Muir! :D

Ms. Golden:

It's delightful reading through all your posts and I'm so glad you're here with us!
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Post by moira finnie »

Eve,
Thank you for your earlier reply.
I'm sorry that I haven't had an opportunity to read Vernon and Irene Castle's Ragtime Revolution. I understand that their life and work as well as their dance was innovative. Could you please outline some of the things they did that were unusual for their time?

Could you please talk a bit about the influence of Irene and Vernon Castle on fashion? Do you think that Fred and Adele Astaire were influenced much by them? I understand that Irene Castle had "issues" with Ginger Rogers regarding period hair and clothing in the film The Story of Vernon and Irene Castle (1949). Is that true?

Are the documentaries to which you've contributed your observations available on dvd? Here are some that I'm aware of: The Anatomy of Burlesque (White Pine Pictures, 2003), PBS's Culture Shock (2000) Olive Thomas: Everybody's Sweetheart (Timeline Films, 2004), and Theda Bara: The Woman with the Hungry Eyes (Timeline Films, 2006). Are there any others?

Thanks very much.
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Post by Ollie »

I've spent today googling and wandering on "Eve Golden" pages, enjoying some reviews - particularly the ones that commented on learning something new. And the very good

http://www.EveGolden.com/

as well. It deserves a plug.
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Sue Sue Applegate
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Post by Sue Sue Applegate »

Dear Eve,

All I can say is that I'm waiting for my next payday so I can order all of your books! I have enjoyed reading this wonderful thread, your knowledgeable and amusing comments, and delighting in all the enthusiastic queries from our SSO members.

Have you been able to read Moira's Morlock missives? We are awfully proud of her prose...

Thank you for your entertaining and enlightening visit!
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Post by egolden »

moirafinnie wrote:Eve,
Thank you for your earlier reply.
I'm sorry that I haven't had an opportunity to read Vernon and Irene Castle's Ragtime Revolution. I understand that their life and work as well as their dance was innovative. Could you please outline some of the things they did that were unusual for their time?

Could you please talk a bit about the influence of Irene and Vernon Castle on fashion? Do you think that Fred and Adele Astaire were influenced much by them? I understand that Irene Castle had "issues" with Ginger Rogers regarding period hair and clothing in the film The Story of Vernon and Irene Castle (1949). Is that true?

Are the documentaries to which you've contributed your observations available on dvd? Here are some that I'm aware of: The Anatomy of Burlesque (White Pine Pictures, 2003), PBS's Culture Shock (2000) Olive Thomas: Everybody's Sweetheart (Timeline Films, 2004), and Theda Bara: The Woman with the Hungry Eyes (Timeline Films, 2006). Are there any others?

Thanks very much.
I don't know if any of those documentaries are on DVD--have you tried amazon? I don't think the Theda one has found a distributor yet, though it was shown at MoMA last year.

The Castles: their dancing was a bit different from others of the era (though of course there is no way now to verify that!). They were light, airy swooping; not as much of the jumping and kicking and wacky break steps that were popular in the 1905-'10 period.

They were also energetic and brilliant PR people, with the help of their manager, Elisabeth Marbury: half of why they became so well-known was their touring, their magazine and newspaper coverage, the book they wrote, Irene's status as a supermodel, Vernon's quotable sense of humor (he had been a successful comic actor before their dancing success). It was (and I hate this expression) a perfect storm of good publicity and talent.

I don't think Astaire and Rogers were influenced by them, but Fred and Adele Astaire began their careers on the wave of the Castles' popularity. There was a lot of fireworks on the set of the 1939 movie: Irene thought Ginger was wrong for the role, but the studio knew that Astaire/Rogers would bring in the patrons (and really, there were few other dancing stars in late 1938 who could have carried the movie and been Irene-y). She and Ginger fought like alley cats over everything--and it is true that Ginger refused to cut or darken her hair, and Irene's hair was part of her legend.

Irene as a fashion icon: very much so. She was one of the first actresses (not the first) to bob her hair, ten years before the flapper look of the 1920s. She was tall and slim and perfectly fit the "tango girl" fashions of the 1908-1918 period, and she appeared constantly in fashion magazines to bring the point home (this is where the "you have to look like a 13-year-old boy" decree began, damn it!). She also pioneered the "American Girl" look: clean, pared-down, very little if any makeup or jewelry. Very Grace Kelly-ish.
egolden
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Post by egolden »

Sue Sue Applegate wrote:All I can say is that I'm waiting for my next payday so I can order all of your books! . . .

Have you been able to read Moira's Morlock missives? We are awfully proud of her prose...
Woo-hoo! Two bucks per book in my pocket!

No, do you have a link to Moira's Missives?
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Post by egolden »

Ollie wrote:I've spent today googling and wandering on "Eve Golden" pages, enjoying some reviews - particularly the ones that commented on learning something new.
As you have found, there is another Eve Golden, who writes psychiatric books and papers--she and I like our websites and call each other Evil Twin.
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Post by Jezebel38 »

Hi Eve - Well, I'm halfway through Golden Images, and I also got a copy of your Castle book, so I'm behind a bit in my questions. I gather the silent and early talkie period is of most interest to you? Or is it just that there is less coverage and more opportunity to write about these lesser known actors? Any particular backstory of an actor that you might have been taken aback to learn? I'm most surpised, so far to find out that Antonio Moreno seems to have been "kept" during his early teens and arival in the US!

And a bit more about Kay Kendall - did she do any fashion modeling prior to her film career, or am I just assuming this because of her role in Genevieve? Also, I know she was faking the "plumpet" playing in the film, but I heard she really did play the trumpet?

I'm interested to read about the Castles as I am a ballroom dancer, as well as a film buff - how about you?

Just a comment - I was wondering why you chose a photo of Lilyan Tashman for the cover of Golden Images, then I saw your picture on the inside jacket of the Castle book - Goodness! slap a platinum wig on you and you are the spitting image of LT!
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Sue Sue Applegate
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Post by Sue Sue Applegate »

Dear Eve,

Click on the link at the end of Moira's replies entitled:

Recent Movie Morlocks Blog Entries.

Thanks again!
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Post by egolden »

Jezebel38 wrote: 1)I gather the silent and early talkie period is of most interest to you? Or is it just that there is less coverage and more opportunity to write about these lesser known actors? Any particular backstory of an actor that you might have been taken aback to learn? I'm most surpised, so far to find out that Antonio Moreno seems to have been "kept" during his early teens and arival in the US!

2) And a bit more about Kay Kendall - did she do any fashion modeling prior to her film career, or am I just assuming this because of her role in Genevieve? Also, I know she was faking the "plumpet" playing in the film, but I heard she really did play the trumpet?

3) I'm interested to read about the Castles as I am a ballroom dancer, as well as a film buff - how about you?

4) Just a comment - I was wondering why you chose a photo of Lilyan Tashman for the cover of Golden Images, then I saw your picture on the inside jacket of the Castle book - Goodness! slap a platinum wig on you and you are the spitting image of LT!
1) I am pretty much fascinated with movie history anytime from the beginning through the 1950s, and theatre from the mid-19th to early-20th century. I'd actually like to do more books on theater stars, like the Vokes family, Bert Savoy, or Georgianna Drew Barrymore--but there is even less of an audience for them than my previous books. Friends joke that I should just call my next book, "Who?!"

Taken aback? Well, I was surprised to find that Nita Naldi and Pearl White were such delightful wits, and horrified to learn that Florence La Badie (unjustly forgotten) and Nora Bayes are buried in unmarked graves.

2) Yes, Kay Kendall did do some fashion modeling in the post-war period (I'd love to pore through some British fashion mags of the period and see if I can spot her). No, she did not play the "plumpet," and was quite vocal that she did not do so in Genevieve--Dinah Sheridan says that when Kay put the trumpet to her mouth and blew "the most horrible sounds came out!"

3) I dance as well as Kay played the trumpet. I did a little hoofing in off-Broadway shows and in summer stock, but I was never good enough to be the "girl in the front row." I was always off in the back somewhere, tripping over the other chorines.

4) I did not choose that photo of Lilyan Tashman and was horrified when I saw the cover! I love Lilyan, but that was an early-30s talkie era photo, and the book was about silents! With all the gorgeous silent-era shots in the book, they chose one from the wrong damn era?! This is one reason I always demand cover approval now. Idiots. I am surrounded by idiots.
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Post by egolden »

Sue Sue Applegate wrote:Dear Eve,

Click on the link at the end of Moira's replies entitled:

Recent Movie Morlocks Blog Entries.

Thanks again!
Thanks--I will check it out at work tomorrow, on one of my "goofing off but looking like I am doing research" breaks.
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