Questions for Ken Winokur

[Ken Winokur]

Thanks for all the info on Chaplin. I wondered if this process could work in reverse. I'm going to have to think up some questions to ask you guys - it seems you're loaded with information.

As you have seen and both UNDERWORLD, which you scored, and THE LAST COMMAND, which you are in the process of scoring, I wondered if you had seen Josef' Von Sternberg's THE DOCKS OF NEW YORK (1928) as well? If so, what were your impressions? Many of us feel that this is Von Sternberg's best Silent overall. Again nice to have you here.

I watched DOCKS OF NY about 10 years ago on a 5th generation videotape I rented from Facets. I wasn't that impressed, or at least in my vague memory, I didn't think it was that suitable for Alloy to score. But, since the print was so bad, I knew that I shouldn't trust my judgement.

So, having all this new von Sternberg material in my life, I started thinking about Docks of NY again. I bought a vhs tape off Ebay of it (the authorized, first generation release from Paramount). I watched it yesterday.

It's a pretty amazing film. I would say it's the most visually arresting of the three (and that's saying a lot). But, the story didn't grip me as much as UNDERWORLD or LAST COMMAND.

Relatively to the earlier ones, it's a bit slow. And it relies more on the romance elements (no big revolutions to score). I don't think I like it as much as the other two. But that said, It's a pretty fantastic film. I'm not that romantic a guy, and I do love revolutions and gangland shootouts. It's all so subjective.

Best,
Ken

[Ken Winokur]

Actually, Chaplin released both CITY LIGHTS, and MODERN TIMES with his synchronized scores in 1931, and 1936 respectively

How is it that the versions I've seen of Modern Times (and I suspect are the most available) don't have any music? If Chaplin wrote the scores for the release, how could anybody have thought to show the film without them?

I had heard that he originally didn't envision a soundtrack, and that the nearly silent Modern Times was a comment on the talkies.

best,
Ken

[Ken Winokur]

I'm just realizing that I completely mis-remembering Modern Times. It's been a long time since I've watched it. The unusual aspect was the lack of dialogue, not the lack of music.

I guess it's time to watch the film again!

I think of films from the sound era to be the poor stepchildren - amusing to watch, but just a fad.

Ken

[MichiganJ]

Ken, welcome to the board! You said:

I had heard that he originally didn't envision a soundtrack, and that the nearly silent Modern Times was a comment on the talkies.

I suspect you are thinking of the opening bit in City Lights where the “dialogue” is represented by a kazoo, making fun of the tinny sound in the early talkies.

Modern Times (1936) isn’t really a “silent” film, but more accurately a “dialogue-less’ film, and the film contains many “sound” gags including the intercom voices, the “gastritous” episode (with the minister’s wife!) and, of course, Chaplin’s “gibberish” song. Chaplin wrote the score but it was arranged and orchestrated by others. (When performing the score live, I’m unclear what happens with the sound effects and especially Chaplin’s song, which is one of the film’s many highlights.)


I’m curious as to your scoring: You mention that you score to particular scenes, but do you ever write themes for specific characters? I’m no musician (I can play a D-chord on a guitar, and if you wait a few seconds, maybe even a B7!), but find that character motifs, when done properly, can be very effective.

One of my favorite Alloy scores accompanies The Man With the Movie Camera. The DVD jacket indicates the score was “based on musical instructions written by Dziga Vertov”, what does that mean? Did he have specific themes written?

Do you ever use “contemporary” tunes from the period when composing, or do you prefer writing completely original material?

Thanks again for visiting the board!

[Ken Winokur]

Hi Michigan, I hope you'll come see us at the Detroit Institute of Art this fall. It's been a couple of years since we've played there - while they renovated the museum. This is one of our favorite venues. They have an unbelievably great film program at the museum, and an astonishingly dedicated audience.

I’m curious as to your scoring: You mention that you score to particular scenes, but do you ever write themes for specific characters? I’m no musician (I can play a D-chord on a guitar, and if you wait a few seconds, maybe even a B7!), but find that character motifs, when done properly, can be very effective.

In all of our scores we use repeated themes for both characters and situations. This really helps the audience enter into the score and helps tie it to the film. After hearing a theme a time or two, usually attached to a specific character, the listener begins to recognize the tune. Each time he or she hears it again, it (possibly subliminally) recalls the earlier scenes. Sometimes we'll do this with a situation.

In the LAST COMMAND we have a theme that we call "revolutionists". This pops up about 4 times in the film, when either the main characters (Evelyn Brent and William Powell) appear, or when other revolutionaries are on screen. We're also using this theme for the opening credits (since it seems to be the best and most memorable piece of music in the film).

In UNDERWORLD there's a Bull Weed theme, a Buck Mulligan theme, and a general "romantic" theme that recur.

One of my favorite Alloy scores accompanies The Man With the Movie Camera. The DVD jacket indicates the score was “based on musical instructions written by Dziga Vertov”, what does that mean? Did he have specific themes written?

That's also one of my favorite silent films, and clearly one of our most appreciated scores.

Vertov wrote some directions to the composers (there were at least two) for the release of the film. They were discovered in a Moscow archive and translated by Vertov expert, Yuri Tsavian. Yuri and Paolo Cherchi Usai (a friend and the unofficial producer of our new score) came to our studio and worked with us while we composed.

The notes are 3 loosly typed pages of a storyboard (breaking the film into scenes). They contain no musical notation, only very vague descriptions of the attitude or mood of the suggested music. In a couple of cases there are suggestions of Russian folk melodies or other well known (in Russia) pieces of music. Many of the notes are as simple as "merry music". Some are really abstract (like the one that calls for having the music pause, frozen in air like the scene on the screen).

Although quite vague, they were enormously helpful. If you've seen the film without our music, it would be very difficult to decide where a scene starts and where it finished. The notes made the structure of the film apparent to us. Also, the generally upbeat moods are not that obvious from the film. It would have been a very different score without the notes.

Also, having Yuri and Paolo with us gave us the confidence to try out lots of misical experiments. Vertov was very interested in new technology and especially radio. So we included recordings taken off a shortwave radio in the backing tracks.

Vertov actually studied music at the Moscow Conservatory and was apparently working withing the style of "Constructivist noise music". In MOVIE CAMERA you will see, within the theater orchestra depicted as accompanying the film presentation, a percussionist who is playing a kit made of wine bottles, tin plates, a wash board, and a pile of spoons. The notes call this the "bottle and spoon orchestra". We reproduced this in our own kit, and even used it in our live performances.

This one scene has been a major inspiration for our continued use of "junk" percussion. We can point to it and say that what we do is actual "traditional". Or at least represents a small group of experimental musicians who accompanied silents back in the early days.

Do you ever use “contemporary” tunes from the period when composing, or do you prefer writing completely original material?

We use very little music from the silent era. The exceptions are usually when there's something specific shown on the screen. For instance in LONESOME they show a gramaphone record (which is central to the plot of the film) that is clearly Irving Berlin's "Always." We recorded a faithful version of this song (which you can hear on our Myspace page). We even went so far as to use an antique mic, eq it to sound even older, and then placed a recording of the background noise from a gramaphone record in the background of our recording. I think it's pretty convincing.

In PHANTOM OF THE OPERA, since they show that the ballet on stage is the opera "Faust" , we used music from that opera. Although Roger looked at the dancing, and tried to figure out what songs were appropriate, he didn't get it right. We're playing the wrong songs with the specific scenes of the Opera. We've though about changing it, but the selections we used are our favorite ones from the opera, and they fit the film very well. I guess they'll stay the way they are.

In STEAMBOAT BILL we began using the song "I'm looking Over a Four Leaf Clover" only because our original keyboard player, Caleb Sampson (who died about 10 years ago) had been playing it at home the night before and remembered the song. When making the recording of the DVD, we recorded "Clover" and then thought about the need to get the rights from the songs current owner. I did a little research and found the guy. When I called him he named a dollar figure (for less than 30 seconds of music) that was almost 100% of the money we were getting to do the whole soundtrack. I laughed at him and hung up the phone. We went back in the studio and rewrote the song a little - enough so that the original melody was no longer recognizable. We even kept the chordal and rhythmic backing tracks (which are uncopyrightable). Although similar, this is a new song and we didn't have to pay for it.

It's too expensive to use music that is in copyright (after 1922) and we have to avoid those songs. Also, given our odd instrumentation it's hard to really do justice to the older music. And of course, the big reason is that we love writing new music, and think that we do a very good job of placing our new music in the old films.

[srowley75]

Hi Ken,

It's great to have you join us. I would love to attend one of those screenings of The Last Command or Underworld. I love Von Sternberg's early work.

Sorry if these questions seem too conventional, but...

1. What are your favorite silent films? Do you have a favorite score outside of the ones your orchestra has done?

2. Are there any silents out there that you and your colleagues have expressed interest in completing scores for?

-Stephen

[Ken Winokur]

Sorry if these questions seem too conventional, but...

1. What are your favorite silent films? Do you have a favorite score outside of the ones your orchestra has done?


Perhaps conventional questions, but always good ones.

We've said it many times, and it's really true. Our favorite is always the one we're currently working on. You get so familiar with that film, so wrapped up in it, that it always seems the best film ever made (until you start working on another one).

So, that said, among my favorites we've done are: Metropolis, Phantom of the Opera, The General, Man With a Movie Camera, Blackmail, Speedy, Underworld and The Last command. I know that Terry would say Lonesome and The Black Pirate.

Of films we've never worked with (in no particular order), Potemkin, Passion of Joan of Ark, The Fall of the House of Usher, Salt for Svanetia, Son of the Sheik, He who Gets Slapped, Anything by Keaton, Out of the Inkwell cartoons, Adventures of Prince Achmed, The Chessplayer, My Grandmother, LeGong Dance of the Virgins, The Wizard of Oz (the original), Those Awful Hats,

Some favorite scores (Live shows or DVDs,also in no particular order, and leaving out some of my favorite accompanists who are consistantly good but nothing particular stands out): Einhorn's Passion of Joan of Arc, Destiny by Mont Alto, The Shakedown - dueling pianos by Donald Sosin and Neil Brand, Cottage at Dartmore by Stephen Horne, Caligari by Paul Dressler, Rin Tin Tin by Jon Marsalis, Phillip Carli's Pandora's Box, Big Stakes by Devil Music Ensemble, My Grandmother by Beth Custer, Le Gong - Dance of the Virgins by Richard Mariotte and the Clubfoot Orchestra, Satie's Entr'acte, George Auteil's Symphonie Mechanique (as recreated by Paul Lehrman), Gabrielle Tibadeaux's Phantom of the Opera.

You'll notice that these run the gamut from traditional to modern, Piano scores to orchestral, improvised to composed to compiled.

I love to hear new things and I love the diversity of styles that are now available. In my memory, there wasn't always this wealth of choices

The worst score I've ever heard was John Cale's The Unknown at Pordenone about 14 years ago. Somehow the sounds he had on disk for his synths got erased. He decided to wing it, and it showed that he didn't know the film, didn't know his synths internal sounds, and didn't really care to try very hard. He got a standing ovation (hard to explain).


2. Are there any silents out there that you and your colleagues have expressed interest in completing scores for?

Son of the Sheik, Faust, He Who Gets Slapped, Beggars of Life, Page of Madness, Potemkin, Docks of New York, Piccadilly (and so many others)

[charliechaplinfan]

Do you hear about silents that are being restored and then have to tender for the work or do companies bring their projects to you?

Is it a small world, the world of scoring silents? The reason I ask is that you mentioned Neil Brand, I've seen him here in England with Paul Merton an English comic with a passion for silent screen comedy.

Regarding Chaplin once again (we have lots of experts here) he couldn't write down music but could hum it to someone who would write it down for him (is this the arranger?) he's on record as saying that he got a lot of 'advice' to tone down his compositions but he knew exactly what he wanted. I love the scores I couldn't imagine the films without his scores.

[Ken Winokur]

Do you hear about silents that are being restored and then have to tender for the work or do companies bring their projects to you?


It has worked both ways. I often beat the bushes, calling all the archives, collectors, and DVD companies that I know and seeing what they're working on. Sometimes this yields something and sometimes not.

We work regularly with the Telluride Film Festival. They often have ideas of films they would like to show. The past and present directors (Bill Pence, Tom Luddy, and Gary Meyers) are fabulously knowledgable about silents and can often pull obscure titles out of their brains. I go searching around to see if there's a good and available print.

Otherwise, David Shepard, or Don Krim at Kino have contacted us with ideas.

We've slowed down on the scoring for DVDs. We found that our best work is done when we have about 3 months to work on the project. So we're always looking for a film that we can tour extensively with before we write a score. Usually that involved a premere at Telluride.

In the past, we've been asked to do scores for DVDs, that we're not planning to tour with (either because the prints aren't available, or we have too much material that year to perform). Because of time and money constraints, we can't work on them as long. We don't think we do as good work in those situations. So, now we're really looking to do DVDs of our touring films.

This plan isn't working too well either. We haven't done a new DVD for about 5 years. The films we've done recently are all copyrighted, and plans to get them out haven't been successful.

I actually own the restored versions of Phantom of the Opera, and of The Eagle (along with my wife jane Gillooly) in our company Box 5. We could do DVDs of these titles ourselves. But, we don't have a mechanism for distributing the DVDs. And given the cost of doing a first rate job, we haven't wanted to throw a ton of money into these projects with little chance to recoup it. Also, there are several excellent DVDs of Phantom, and a decent one of The Eagle on the market already. A new release is going to have limited interest.

Is it a small world, the world of scoring silents? The reason I ask is that you mentioned Neil Brand, I've seen him here in England with Paul Merton an English comic with a passion for silent screen comedy.

It does sometimes seem like a small world, but an expanding one. There has been a boom in silent film screenings and DVDs, with an accompanying boom in composers and new scores. I have met Neil Brand on a bunch of occasions (at the Pordenone festival which we've played at 4 times, and at Telluride where I heard The Shakedown).

I never pass up an opportunity to see a first class presentation of a silent with a live accompaniment.

Fortunately, here in Boston, the Harvard Film Archive does regular screenings of silents, and has two excellent piano players who have worked here over the years - Martin Marks (who teaches at MIT) and Yakob Godenov (I might be misspeling his name) who teaches at Berkeley School of Music.

I love to go to Pordenone where the best of the best accompanists play (and the most outrageous collection of movies).

Regarding Chaplin once again (we have lots of experts here) he couldn't write down music but could hum it to someone who would write it down for him (is this the arranger?) he's on record as saying that he got a lot of 'advice' to tone down his compositions but he knew exactly what he wanted. I love the scores I couldn't imagine the films without his scores.

I shouldn't sound too harsh about Chaplin's scores. The obviously work really well - he's done pretty well with his movies! They're just not my favorite kinds of music. The scores do fit perfectly with the films.

I do hear lots of criticism about Chaplin being too sentimental. I wonder if the music was different if they would still have that effect on modern audiences?

I do love the movies though. A couple of years ago when I did Tillie's Punctured Romance, I was astounded at how sophisticated that film was for 1914 (much of which was probably attributable to the director, Mack Sennet). I love The Vagabond, The Immigrant, One AM, and Easy Street. The Circus, the Kid, and the talkies like Limelight and Modern Times are great (and the rest too!).

We have scored Easy Street (which I don't think he wrote a score for). But mostly, we've stayed away from Chaplin films - his scores do the job nicely.

[bdp]

Mr. Winokur, you've mentioned Paul Fejos' 'Lonesome' as a film Alloy has scored; is there any chance of this having a DVD release? This is one of my absolute favorite films, yet it's such a little known and underrated work - I would love to see it get a proper DVD release. Thank you for your time and attention.

[Ken Winokur]

Mr. Winokur, you've mentioned Paul Fejos' 'Lonesome' as a film Alloy has scored; is there any chance of this having a DVD release? This is one of my absolute favorite films, yet it's such a little known and underrated work - I would love to see it get a proper DVD release.

One can only hope, but the answer is probably no. It's owned by Universal Pictures and they seem to have no interest in putting it out. The master print it was taken from is at the Cinematheque Francaise, and the English subtitled print is at the George Eastman House.

Universal owns absolutely no film elements of the title. So there would have to be a collaboration between one of the archives and Universal. I suppose this could happen if Universal was interested (which they never have been).

We have worked with the excellent George Eastman House print - hand colored. There is an original soundtrack on the print which is also intact. The film was released in 1928 with both a sound and a silent version. I don't know if there was any difference other than the soundtrack. The existing print is sound (and has 3 scenes with synchronized dialogue).

Reviewers have often talked about how stiff and awkward the sound sequences are. I think they are the most charming thing in the film. We turn up the sound at Alloy Orchestra shows so that you can hear it.

David Pierce, film historian, showed me a clipping from a newspaper that explained that Universal borrowed a very early version of Warner's sound recording system for tests. They quickly did a couple of additions to already completed Universal films (without telling Warners what they were doing) and then released them. It's hypothesized that Warners wasn't too pleased that Universal actually produced a couple of competing talkies to Warners during their short test.

Best,
Ken

[Mr. Arkadin]

Mr. Winokur,

First, let me say I've enjoyed your work very much. Your scores have helped me to introduce silent works to friends who normally would never watch such films.

I see from your posts that you work in the digital domain (I'm still an analog guy, but am gradually getting my feet wet). Could you detail your other equipment for me--specifically monitors, mics (what's your setup for recording clarinet?), mic pres, etc. Also, do you you use outboard gear (if so what?) or plug-ins exclusively? Are you using a specific program to SMPTE? Finally do you send your finished mix to a mastering house of your choosing and send the masters in, or just submit your final mix?

[Ken Winokur]

I see from your posts that you work in the digital domain (I'm still an analog guy, but am gradually getting my feet wet). Could you detail your other equipment for me--specifically monitors, mics (what's your setup for recording clarinet?), mic pres, etc. Also, do you you use outboard gear (if so what?) or plug-ins exclusively? Are you using a specific program to SMPTE? Finally do you send your finished mix to a mastering house of your choosing and send the masters in, or just submit your final mix?

I wondered if we would get into the nitty gritty technical stuff.

Alloy's earliest recordings are analogue - Man with a Movie Camera, Strike, Metropolis, Lonesome. These were 8 track, half inch tape. All the tapes have since been destroyed in a fire, or just by age (damn Agfa tape!).

I've been doing recording since I was a kid (as well as photography, filmaking and writing (mostly journalism) - in addition to music. You might say that I came out of the womb as a multi-media producer.

About 28 years ago I moved into my current loft/studio in cambridge, MA. It had originally been the horse garage for the Boston trolley.

When I got here the first floor was a family run chicken slaughter house and retail poultry store (sign's still out front - Live Poultry Fresh Killed). We live upstairs from that.

In 1981 I began with Teac 4 tracks, and moved to 8 track. About 15 years ago I went digital (Tascam DA 88 digital tape). Now, as I said, I do all my recording on a Mac with Digital Performer.

I have Genelec monitors (about 12 years old), a Soundcraft Ghost 32 channel board. I take the analogue and convert to digital with two RME Fireface interfaces (which have a total of 20 channels of conversion). There are 8 Class A mic pre's built in to the Firefaces (although I mostly use the Soundcraft board's pre's since the monitoring on the board is so convenient, and it sounds great). I have more than 40 mics from Neumann, AKG, Rode, Blue, Electrovoice, Beyer, Sennheiser and of course Shure.

A typical recording session has mostly been putting up 14 mics and two direct lines from our Kurzweil K2VX sampling synth.

More recently, I've been doing less mics - 4 mics and the two directs. 2 Rode NT2a, and 2 Studio Projects C3's (all set to cardiod). That's the setup I used for the MP3 of Underworld that's on our Myspace page. This set up has made the recording sound very natural, but has less flexibility when I want to bring out one of the (dozens) of percussion instruments.

I stand near one of the Rode NT2a mics for clarinet, and Terry does the same for his Accordion. The two Studio Projects are in an XY pattern in front of the drum and are used for ambience or to capture the instruments closest to them, including the bass drum.

I have two recording rooms (a control room and a room to play in). They are elaborately, but not very well, soundproofed. They have lots of ad hock treatment on the walls to control the reverberation and bass trapping. The always sound kind of small, but I find it workable. The rooms are approximately 12 X 16 each (but have irregular walls that aren't very paralell). I just sold almost all my outboard eq ... et all.

[movieman1957]

This may sound silly but do you always record together? I recently read a webpage for a contemporary jazz artist and he mentioned his songs are sometimes recorded in stages. He'll record his part and send it off to someone else to layer their part and so on until everyone involved has had their part in it while not having played together.

Also, what musical education do you and the group have and how has that affected your writing if you each have different levels?

[Ken Winokur]

This may sound silly but do you always record together? I recently read a webpage for a contemporary jazz artist and he mentioned his songs are sometimes recorded in stages. He'll record his part and send it off to someone else to layer their part and so on until everyone involved has had their part in it while not having played together.

That's not a silly question. It's central to many musicians thinking about recording. Alloy tends to record our final tracks together, playing as an ensemble. There's a different kind of communication this way - you are always listening to the other musicians parts and reacting to them. The music comes out more live sounding, and usually has more energy. It also takes a fraction of the time (which is always a consideration).

There are some exceptions to this. I usually record my clarinet parts later. The clarinet is very quiet compared to our other live instruments and tends to get drowned out. Also, since I'm not that great a player, it lets me do my part a couple of times until I get it right.

Roger's keyboard parts (being recorded directly into the computer) can be overdubbed to make corrections or to get a new and better take. We rarely do this, but occasionally.

We don't really use midi much. Midi is the synchronization system that most synth players use. It does a recording that's a lot like a player piano (only digital). It allows for infinite corrections, additions of instruments etc. We probably should use it so that we could correct mistakes in the keyboard parts, but it's just more work to do, and we're so used to just playing down the music. This is where our months of rehearsal come in handy.

Other than the synth parts, all of our music is played on live instruments (or live junk). We like to keep at least 2/3s of the music to come from real instruments. We tolorate the synth because it can replace an entire orchestra's instruments, but none of us really like it.

We use a Kurzweil K2VX. In press releases from about 15 years ago, I first started saying that Alloy uses "An unusual combination of found percussion and state-of-the-art electronics". The joke is that our state-of-the-art electronics are now 15 years old (and still sound pretty good).

Also, what musical education do you and the group have and how has that affected your writing if you each have different levels?

Roger studied composition and piano at a variety of music conservatories including Cal Arts, and the University of Michigan. He cut his teeth on his punk bands, including Mission of Burma. He composes a lot of soundtracks for contemporary film and tv.

Terry dropped out of high school (where he seems to have only studied music and gym) and started playing in rock bands. Alot of his musical education seems to have come from his parents interest in old time country music. Terry's not a very educated musician, but he's got an amazing talent for picking up instruments and learning them quickly. He's got the only good memory in the group, and we often rely on him to remind us what we're all supposed to be doing. He reads a little music.

I also studied classical music only through high school (although I did go through college and study journalism and English). I began taking classes in hand drumming after graduating. I lived in Puerto Rico for a summer and studied Afro Cuban drumming. I also did Senegalese drumming for a number of years with a fabulous master drummer from that country.

About 10 years ago (at the age of 44) I decided that Alloy needed another melodic instrument (and that my life was too easy) and started playing clarinet. I only took a couple of lessons from a musician friend, and have mostly taught myself. I'm still kind of lame, but I have a nice tone and practice my simple parts over and over, until I can pull them off in concert.

The first couple of years playing the clarinet were pretty painful. I had a crappy instrument that didn't play correctly. I was squeaking and squawking all over the place.

I remember doing a show at Lincoln Center shortly after picking up the clarinet. I was on stage getting ready to start my squeaking and squawking, and it flashed into mind that just behind where I was standing, probably not more than a foot or so, was Julliard music conservatory (probably the most prestigious in the US). It was pretty intimidating (but didn't make me play much better).

Terry and my lack of formal music education does hold us back a little. We're quite slow in writing our clarinet and accordion parts, and don't improvise that well. But, Roger is very patient, correcting our mistakes and giving us guidance about key structures etc. Terry can play his musical saw like a wizard, and both of us can make up for lost time when we're unleased behind the drums and junk.

The "junk percussion" thing has raised lots of interest and criticism over the years. It started as a way of getting a much wider pallet of percussion sounds than is typically found in a drumset or even an expanded percussionist's kit.

Our junk includes truck springs, horse shoes, plumbing pipes, hub caps, pots and pans, bells, misc sheets of metal and a bedpan. We play an out of tune zither, some glockenspiel, bird calls (and a really nasty predator call), slide whistles, police whistles, bugle, pop gun, woodblocks, cowbells and a section of air conditioning duct work.

Then there's a big array of gongs, cymbals and conventional (orchestral) drums.

We play much of the materials in a somewhat melodic fashion. Lots of it has a pretty and quiet kind of sound (like the truck springs or the cymbals). We also do some sound effects with the junk.

An interesting thing has been happening over the last years. The junk is becoming a much smaller part of our compositions.

Our first score was Metropolis, and that's where we developed the drumset and set our style. Being a Science Fiction film, there seemed to be no restrictions about what type of music or sounds would be appropriate.

As soon as we started playing more restrained films (THE WIND was our second composition), we realized that we needed to tone down our crashing and bashing. For a while we picked lots of very active films, or ones that allowed an avant guard sort of approach (Lost World, Nosferatu, Man with a Movie Camera, Aelita Queen of Mars).

But those types of films began to be harder to find. At the same time we began to feel that our music was starting to all sound the same. We began to change up. Many of our newer films are less action oriented and more psychologically based (Blackmail, Dans La Nuit, The Eagle, and Underworld for instance). You can't crash and bang through those. We've been doing less drumming, and far less junk metal. We're playing more complex melodic materials, and playing much more gentle, more orchestral drum parts.

That one clip of UNDERWORLD on our Myspace page (the opening 10 minutes of the film) has a mix of our quieter style and a good bit of drumming.

The one real expectation to all this is Chang - a Drama of the Wilderness. This is a quasi documentary about village live in Thailand. Alloy's score (which we're just starting to do more often after premiering it two years ago) is all acoustic - no synth. Roger plays one string on a banjo to sound like a Thai one string goard reasoner instrument. Terry and I play lots of hand cymbals, wood blocks, and bass drum. I also play a flute like instrument (a lo-whistle).

We did a little research into traditional Thai music and that helped us enormously in getting a pallet of sounds that seems authentic. We took some of the rhythms from the recordings we heard, and wrote more that were in the same vein. We don't pretend to be playing Thai music (which I assume is a rich and varied tradition), but we do try to sound, to western ears, like we are.