This Is the END

[rohanaka]

Ha!!!!!!!!!! Jackie.. I kept waiting and WAITING for poor Tybalt to get up too! (I was half expecting them to all leave.. and then he would sit up and say, "Hey.. where did everybody go?" Too funny. After seeing that I feel certain we need to consider Tinker's recommendation (from The Princess Bride" and come up with a whole NEW category #18 for those who are only "Mostly Dead" ha. ("Twooo Wuv" strikes again!)

And also.. along with #18,here are some of the other new categories you folks have mentioned:

#19 Murder Most Foul this would be for all movies that are about "murder" as the main plot in the story. This could be your "missing" category Miss Maven for the one you weren't sure how to define ha. We can just add a "Marriage Clause" in there as a subheading. ha. (and yes.. Masha.. great idea.. we'll add a second subheading for murdered by mistaken identity)

#20 The Talking Dead (for all those dead narrators.. Sunset Boulevard (great catch, Lucky!) American Beauty, etc)

And then I also thought of another #21 The DEATH STAR Ha.. Not sure if someone had mentioned this already but this category would be for movies where "DEATH" itself is one of the main characters in the story.. like Death Takes a Holiday, Meet Joe Black, or On Borrowed Time (to name a few)

Miss Maven.. I loved your "side notes" on all your examples.. ha. To quote from Dan Fogelberg.. "Lessons learned are like bridges burned. You only need to cross them but once." ha. Good thing we have the MOVIES to teach us all this stuff in case it ever comes up in real life! And THANKS for bringing up Mary Meredith TOO. (OH my golly what a creepy ghost SHE was.. aggh.. definitely in the "Gone but not forgotten" category for SURE. She still gives me the heebie jeebies just thinking about her.

Meanwhile.. THANKS ChiO for making ME cry too.. HA! Oh brudduah.. just thinking about poor Bambi's Mother!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (agh!) We should add special Animal Category for her (and John Wayne's dog in just about every movie where John Wayne had a dog.. and probably Old Yeller.. and whatever OTHER movie where a beloved animal or pet dies) ha. Let's see... Category #22 "Some Animals WERE harmed in the making of THIS movie"

Oh.. and also #23 Monsters, Aliens, and/or other-worldly life forms. (for King Kong.. Godzilla.. and ET even (though he DOES get to come back at the end of the movie.. so he can go home.. but STILL he did die there for a moment, didn't he??)

Aggghhh. Between Bambi's mom, King Kong, AND ET.. oh me... just thinking of them all together.. Break out the tissues NOW. ha.

OK.. so just to keep our list running so folks don't have to scroll back so far.. here is where we are at now:

1) Too Good for this World (with the subheading for young innocents)
2) Too Rotten to live /Just Desserts
3)Ultimate Sacrifice
4) Tragic Hero/Heroine
5) Repentant Bad Guy
6) Doomed by Fate or Circumstance
7) Ripe Old Age,
8 ) Crazed Loonies
9) Death as Comedic Relief,
10) Too STUPID to live,
#11 Wrong Place/Wrong Time
12) War Casualties,
13) Wrongful Prosecution/Mob Violence,
14) Gone but not Forgotten (for all the ghosts, zombies, vampires, etc)
15) The Unseen Dead (for those who die off screen, or before the story begins,
16) Natural Disaster/Acts of God
#17 Divine Retribution.
#18 Mostly Dead (for characters you THINK have died, but somehow manage to pull through)
#19Murder Most Foul (with two subheadings.. The Marriage Clause, and Murder by Mistaken Identity)
#20 The Talking Dead (aka dead narrators)
#21 The Death Star (movies with "Death" is a character)
#22 Some Animals WERE harmed in the making of THIS movie
#23 Monsters, Aliens, and/or other-worldly creatures

Busy, busy, busy.. so many ways to go.. ha. Who knew??

[Lucky Vassall]

I must wonder if it could be said that this thread has taken on a life of its own.

In other words,

The END Is Near

but

POST poned

[rohanaka]

I must wonder if it could be said that this thread has taken on a life of its own

HA.. well wonder no more. (from page one.. or is it two?? I think it was page two.. but I am losing track now. ha...

And Masha says:

I am coming to feel that this thread is evil as it has been haunting me from the moment that I submitted my first post and then realized that I had forgotten to mention many different excellent movie deaths. It has invaded my mind at odd moments through the night and day and usually at times when it was not convenient to find a pen and write down revelations.

Ha.. yes.. it has sort of taken on a life of it's own (funny.. since we are talking about the OPPOSITE of life.. ha

Who knew when we started this thing way back a few days ago with my puny little five categories we would come up with so many more. ha. (The death toll just keeps rising!) ha.

[JackFavell]

I read that too, Lucky, about how some theatrical troupes of the 1800's didn't really trust their audiences to stand up under the tragedy of plays like Romeo and Juliet. I'm quite sure the fear of rioting or even lynching if the play didn't turn out the way fans wanted it to was uppermost in the actor/managers' minds.

I never noticed Jeffrey Dench! Thanks for pointing him out.

Ro, you've certainly got your hands full with all these categories! I have to say, your titles for each category had me laughing hard! Especially THE TALKING DEAD. I keep trying to come up with one category, but it's pretty much the same as black comedy or one of the others - the dead who won't stay dead. We must have that covered already!

Movies in that category have already been mentioned:

Blood Simple
Diaboliques
The Third Man

[Lucky Vassall]

I don't believe anybody's mentioned one of the most obvious deaths of them all.

Do we need a new category to cover "She's Dead, But It's Not Her, and She Was Already Dead"? I mean, of course, Vertigo.

Also, I wonder, does "Doomed" cover it or do we also need a category for "Dead But Not Lying Down Yet" to cover D.O.A.?

[JackFavell]

I can't believe we didn't mention Vertigo, Lucky! Incredible, as we have some great fans here.

And I forgot another movie in the "Death as a bureaucratic mistake" or 'Heaven is a bureaucracy" category. I thought of it while crying my eyes out at Here Comes Mr. Jordan this morning. Fritz Lang's Liliom.

[Lucky Vassall]

I can't believe we didn't mention Vertigo, Lucky! Incredible, as we have some great fans here.

And I forgot another movie in the "Death as a bureaucratic mistake" or 'Heaven is a bureaucracy" category. I thought of it while crying my eyes out at Here Comes Mr. Jordan this morning. Fritz Lang's Liliom.

With Vertigo, I guess it was just another case of "The Purloined Letter."

And I just remembered that there was a slightly known play turned film called Death of a Salesman. Maybe he belongs in "Dead But Not Lying Down," too?

[Bronxgirl48]

Loving this thread, Ro.

How about: Movies That Are Already Dead On Arrival. These usually involve henious, thoroughly unnecessary remakes -- PSYCHO II, THE GOODBYE GIRL, THE BAD SEED, just off the top of my head. These films are essentially just one prolonged, continuous death scene. I mean, how could they ever have improved on the original classics?

Under perhaps a new category of Too Misogynistic To Live, I'd put Stephen McNally, JOHNNY BELINDA; Donald Crisp, BROKEN BLOSSOMS; pathetic Barry Miller, SATURDAY NIGHT FEVER as examples. This is not to be confused with Too Misanthropic To Live (Men), of which should be included Orson Welles, THE THIRD MAN, for starters.

[rohanaka]

Ro, you've certainly got your hands full with all these categories! I have to say, your titles for each category had me laughing hard! Especially THE TALKING DEAD. I keep trying to come up with one category, but it's pretty much the same as black comedy or one of the others - the dead who won't stay dead. We must have that covered already!

Movies in that category have already been mentioned:

Blood Simple
Diaboliques
The Third Man

Hmmmm... I think we might have some of that covered in the "#18 MOSTLY DEAD" category.. but ha.. maybe we SHOULD add a separate category for folks who FAKE their own death "#24 JUST Kidding!" ha.. if only for that rotten Harry LIME guy. But hey! At least he DOES finally end up in the TOO ROTTEN TO LIVE category.. thank goodness!! ha. (or at least, thank Joseph Cotton, anyway)

And I forgot another movie in the "Death as a bureaucratic mistake" or 'Heaven is a bureaucracy" category. I thought of it while crying my eyes out at Here Comes Mr. Jordan

Ha.. absolutely we need to add THAT one. We could even add movies like Between Two Worlds to that list too. Hmm.. How about#25 Eternal Red Tape (ha)

Lucky asks:

Do we need a new category to cover "She's Dead, But It's Not Her, and She Was Already Dead"? I mean, of course, Vertigo

Hmmm.... I think that could be a subheading under our new category.. ha. "#25JUST kidding!. Ha. we could add the subheading: Nope, STILL dead!

Also, I wonder, does "Doomed" cover it or do we also need a category for "Dead But Not Lying Down Yet" to cover D.O.A

Woo hoo.. great idea. How about #26 Death Warmed Over Ha. (that would work for movies like Death Becomes Her too)

HELLLOOO Miss Bronxie!! Welcome to the "Morgue" ha. I don't know about MOVIES that should have died (ha. there ARE some stinkers out there, aren't there?) ha. But everyone has their own spin on "good" movies and "bad movies' ha. So I would not want to make any enemies.

However I DO like you idea for

Too Misogynistic To Live, I'd put Stephen McNally, JOHNNY BELINDA; Donald Crisp, BROKEN BLOSSOMS; pathetic Barry Miller, SATURDAY NIGHT FEVER as examples

Ha.. YES.. that Stephan McNally DESERVED to be dealt with for SURE) ha. If EVER there was someone who was "Too Rotten to LIVE" ha. Hey.. that's it. Maybe we should make that a subheading for #2 Too ROTTEN to live and we can call it the "He-man Woman Hater's Club" and of course we WOULD have to have the flip side of that coin.. for the women who would fall in the "men haters" group... we could call that subheading "Miss Havisham's School for Girls"

[Lucky Vassall]

Ro, I too just love your category titles. Keep 'em coming!

Have thought of two candidates for "Gone...but Not Forgotten," about as far apart artistically as you can get: Jerry Zucker's Ghost and William Castle's 13 Ghosts.

Obviously, we can't have a category, or even a sub-category, for just one film, but it's a shame there can't be a sub to "Gone...but Not Forgotten" to honor the greatest hanger-on of all. It would be "Stuffed...but Not Forgotten" to honor Psycho's mama.

[CineMaven]

I set up a challenge for myself Ro and hoping you won’t mind. I wanted to see if I could cite examples for all the categories given for your thread in one fell swoop. ( Ack! I failed miserably ) but I gave it the good ol’ college try. And considering how long it took me to get my Bachelor’s...I finished this in a reasonable amount of time. So, divided, sub-divided, sub-headed and beheadings...this is what I came up with:

( #1. ) TOO GOOD FOR THIS WORLD: YOUNG INNOCENTS

THE BABY in “PENNY SERENADE”


Cary Grant and Irene Dunne

After Dunne suffers a miscarriage during a Japanese earthquake, she and Grant adopt a baby. They’re in danger of losing the baby and go to court where Grant pleads their case. Then as a little girl, she dies. Sad.

* * * * * * * * * *

( #2. ) TOO ROTTEN FOR THIS WORLD / JUST DESSERTS

ERNEST BORGNINE in “FROM HERE TO ETERNITY”



He certainly gets his but not before he hides behind his rank and size to brutalize fellow soldiers. Two years later, Ernie wins an Oscar for playing mild-mannered “Marty.” Acting...go figure.

* * * * * * * * * *

( #3. ) ULTIMATE SACRIFICE - ( High Price for the Greater Good )

GARY COOPER in “FOR WHOM THE BELL TOLLS”


Ingrid Bergman and Gary Cooper

Gary helps some rebels in Spain, and he’s got to blow up a bridge. Only thing is he’s got to stay on the bridge in order to blow it up. And he’s got to say goodbye to Ingrid Bergman.

* * * * * * * * * *

( #4. ) TRAGIC HERO - ( Not Long For This World )

LON CHANEY JR. in “THE WOLFMAN”


Lon Chaney and Maria Ouspenskaya

A great cast in this film. But poor Lon. He hasn’t asked for this thing. His blood is infected due to a bite by a werewolf, when the Autumn moon is bright. His father will eventually will kill him. It’s bad news all around for the Talbots. I feel badly for all of them. He doesn't revel in his new-found power. He's haunted by it.

* * * * * * * * * *

( #6. ) DOOMED BY FATE OR CIRCUMSTANCES

TOM NEAL in “DETOUR”



If Vera ( Ann Savage ) was too rotten to live, then Neal here didn’t stand a chance. Fate not only put its finger on him, it balled its hand into a fist and beat the living crap out of him. Talk about a dark cloud over his head....

* * * * * * * * * *

( #7. ) RIPE OLD AGE

HELEN GAHAGAN in “SHE”


Helen Gahagan and Randolph Scott

Oh it’s ripe alright. But she does not age gently into that good night. For the love of a man, SHE goes through fire. Oooh, it doesn’t end well for her when age catches up to her. And not even Helena Rubenstein can fix it:



“Your eyes will lose their brightness.
Your cheeks will wrinkle.
Your limbs will wither.
While I defy the years and laugh at time.”

* * * * * * * * * *

( #8. ) CRAZED LOONIES - ( Messed Up In the Head )

CHARLES LAUGHTON in “ISLAND OF LOST SOULS”



As mad scientists go, you’d think he’d maybe find a cure for AIDS...for cancer. Should he really be trying to turn beasts into human beings? ( And I'm not letting Dr. Frankenstein off the hook for bringing the dead back to life either. ) There’s already a tried and true method for producing life. Well the worm turns and these lost souls turn on Laughton. As he faces them, trying to still rule over them, and they overpower him...why do I get the feeling he’s perversely enjoying it?

* * * * * * * * * *

( #9. ) DEATH AS THE ULTIMATE COMIC RELIEF - ( Black Comedy )

VINCENT PRICE in “THEATRE OF BLOOD”


Diana Rigg, Coral Browne and Vincent Price

Price plays a hammy actor passed over for a coveted theatre award. So he does what all losing nominees do, he kills his critics one by one. But he does it with flair. He uses Shakespearean methods of dispatch. Black comedy, the way mostly the British can do.

* * * * * * * * * *

( #12. ) WAR CASUALTIES

LEW AYRES in “ALL QUIET ON THE WESTERN FRONT”


Lew Ayres and Louis Wollheim

Following this young recruit’s experience in World War I is a poignant journey.

* * * * * * * * * *

( #13. ) WRONGFUL PROSECUTION and/or MOB VIOLENCE

RICHARD WIDMARK in “NIGHT AND THE CITY”


Gene Tierney and Richard Widmark

Widmark is a small-time hood with delusions of grandeur. He’s got a big idea for a wrestling match but messes with the wrong mob King Pin. The forces of the underworld close in on Widmark when that KingPin’s father is killed in the ring. And Widmark has no...place...to...run.

* * * * * * * * * *

( #14. ) GONE BUT NOT FORGOTTEN

CARY GRANT & CONSTANCE BENNETT in “TOPPER”


Cary Grant, Roland Young and Constance Bennett

Have you ever seen a more erudite, sophisticated and good-looking pair of ghosts? I keep forgetting they are dead. They’re dead! So, M. Night Shymalan did not have the idea originally. Roland Young sees dead people...in 1937.

* * * * * * * * * *

( #15. ) THE UNSEEN DEAD

‘MRS. THORWALD’ in “REAR WINDOW”


Raymond Burr, Irene Winston

With nothing to do while recuperating from a broken leg, James Stewart spies on his neighbors. Stewart realizes one of his neighbors has killed and dismembered his wife. Her death informs the rest of the movie and puts Grace Kelly and Jimmy Stewart in danger.

* * * * * * * * * *

( #17. ) DIVINE RETRIBUTION

I do feel a little bad for the Mummy. What he did he did for love of a girl. But when it’s over it’s over. You can’t revive a love affair that’s over 3000 years old. People change. That girl seeks help from a higher power, the goddess Isis:


Boris Karloff, Zita Johann and Isis

She entreats the statue of Isis to help her defeat Ardeth Bey:

“Don’t kill me. I’m a Priestess of Isis. Save me from that mummy. It’s dead. Save me. Oh Isis, Holy Maiden. I was thy consecrated vestal. I broke my vows. Save me now. Teach me the ancient summons, the Holy spells I’ve forgotten. I call upon days of old.”

* * * * * * * * * *

( #19. ) MURDER MOST FOUL - ( Murder as the Main Plot in the Story )

DICK HOGAN in “ROPE”


Farley Granger, Dick Hogan and John Dall

I just love the audaciousness of Alfred Hitchcock, don't you? IN...YOUR...FACE! The movie starts off with the murder, and throughout the movie we are well aware of the body in the trunk at the dinner party where the food rests on, attended by his parents, friends and girlfriend. In your face in your face in your face. It's taken me a few years to warm up to this movie. ( Talk talk talk boring boring boring. ) But not anymore. I love the cat and mouse game. The narcissism. The sexual subtext. The plain "in-your-face" of it.

* * * * * * * * * *

( #20. ) THE TALKING DEAD ( Dead Narrators )

JOAN FONTAINE IN “LETTER FROM AN UNKNOWN WOMAN”


Louis Jourdan and Joan Fontaine

I’ve seen some devastating endings ( “Scarlet Street” comes to mind ) in my movie-watching lifetime, but I was absolutely and positively stunned by this movie and the circular way justice weaves through this tale. Whew!! I am still shaking my head.

* * * * * * * * * *

( #22. ) SOME ANIMALS WERE HARMED IN MAKING THIS MOVIE

‘THE DOG’ in “REAR WINDOW”



Curiosity killed the cat. And it doesn’t help this poor little puppy who sniffs around Raymond Burr. Awww!

* * * * * * * * * *

( #24. ) JUST KIDDING - ( Folks Who Faked Their Own Death )

KENT SMITH in “NORA PRENTISS”


Kent Smith and Ann Sheridan

I love this movie. I love Ann Sheridan. Kent Smith gets downright gobsmacked by the Oomph. Instead of divorcing his wife ( Rosemary deCamp ) he stumbles into the opportunity of his life in order to be with Sheridan. He switches his identity with a dead man. Uhhhmmmm...how’d that work out for you Kent? ( And what about Irina? )

[Lucky Vassall]

I set up a challenge for myself Ro and hoping you won’t mind. I wanted to see if I could cite examples for all the categories given for your thread in one fell swoop. ( Ack! I failed miserably ) but I gave it the good ol’ college try. And considering how long it took me to get my Bachelor’s...I finished this in a reasonable amount of time. So, divided, sub-divided, sub-headed and beheadings...this is what I came up with)

Congratulations CM. A fantastic list! Forget the bach, for this you deserve a Masters.

[rohanaka]

Hey there, Miss Maven.. that was terrific! You are on a roll! (oh me, oh my.. the poor little baby from Penny Serenade.. agghh!!) Oh me, indeed! You got me with that one for sure. (poor sweet thing) And then to add even MORE.. ha. Poor Gary!! (OH that bell. it tolled for HIM, alas) You have some really good choices for the categories for sure.

Though.. as a side note: ha.. (and in NO way am I starting trouble here, I promise) but I would have to put Harry from Night And the City in a different category. ha. (rather than mob violence) I would almost put him in "too rotten to live." Though I DO confess he was not AS rotten as all that... maybe. But still.. he was not quite so innocent either. ha. I still remember that long chat we had over at TCM in my Noir Walk thread.. with Frank Grimes. It was one of my all time favorite chats in that thread. As I recall Mr. Grimes was very "pro-Harry" and I came down more on the "he got what he deserved for being such a low-life" ha. It's all up to your interpretation, I am sure. But that is the best part about the movies... we can BOTH watch the same movie and come up with a totally different spin on things.. and we each end up being just as right. ha.

Getting back to your listings.. I l-o-v-e LOVED your two references to Rear Window. Perfect examples of BOTH of those categories! And you have me wanting to check out Letter From an Unknown Woman.. it sounds like one I need to look into!

Meanwhile.. Masha asks:

What of movies where death is not the end?

I am thinking of:
Topper (1937)
The Canterville Ghost (1944)
The Ghost and Mrs. Muir (1947)
Portrait of Jennie (1948)
Kuroneko (1968)

Hmmmm... well.. I think some of them would go in the Gone But Not Forgotten category (for stories like The Canterville Ghost) Maybe.. but there is that whole
spin in some of these where the "end" of the story is really on the "beginning" ha... so yes.. absolutely! Especially for movies like The Ghost and Mrs. Muir.. HE would be "Gone but not Forgotten for most of the movie.. ha. but at the end, we could say they both crossed over into a new cantegory.. How about: #27 It's a Wonderful Afterlife ha.

So ok.. here are all the latest entries added to the complete list:

1) Too Good for this World (with the subheading for young innocents)
2) Too Rotten to live /Just Desserts (with the new subheadings for "He-Man Woman Haters" and "Miss Havisham's School for Girls) ha.
3)Ultimate Sacrifice
4) Tragic Hero/Heroine
5) Repentant Bad Guy
6) Doomed by Fate or Circumstance
7) Ripe Old Age,
8 ) Crazed Loonies
9) Death as Comedic Relief,
10) Too STUPID to live,
#11 Wrong Place/Wrong Time
12) War Casualties,
13) Wrongful Prosecution/Mob Violence,
14) Gone but not Forgotten (for all the ghosts, zombies, vampires, etc)
15) The Unseen Dead (for those who die off screen, or before the story begins,
16) Natural Disaster/Acts of God
#17 Divine Retribution.
#18 Mostly Dead (for characters you THINK have died, but somehow manage to pull through)
#19Murder Most Foul (with two subheadings.. The Marriage Clause, and Murder by Mistaken Identity)
#20 The Talking Dead (aka dead narrators)
#21 The Death Star (movies with "Death" is a character)
#22 Some Animals WERE harmed in the making of THIS movie
#23 Monsters, Aliens, and/or other-worldly creatures
#24 Eternal Red Tape (for stories like Heaven Can Wait or Here Comes Mr. Jordan, etc)
#25JUST Kidding (for the faked death.. with a subheading of "NOPE STILL DEAD" for those who trick someone into thinking a dead person is still alive, ala Vertigo)
#26 Death Warmed (for stories like DOA)
#27 It's a Wonderful Afterlife (for films like The Ghost and Mrs. Muir, where Death is just the beginning)

OH good grief.. ha. I need to stop. I am getting TOO silly with all of this.. ha. But PS: Lucky.. glad you are enjoying the categories.. And you are right.. we have got so many categories and subcategories going on now.. Ha. I am sure we'll have some types slip through the cracks.

But I do confess, I am having a good time with them. It's been fun to cut loose and be a little silly for a change. Thanks everyone for putting up with me.