WHAT FILMS HAVE YOU SEEN LATELY?

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moira finnie
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Re: WHAT FILMS HAVE YOU SEEN LATELY?

Post by moira finnie »

movieman1957 wrote:Was Tennessee Williams capable of anything light and pleasant?
I know it's hard to believe, but Night of the Iguana and The Rose Tattoo have quite a few real laughs. Some people claim that Period of Adjustment is a comedy-drama, though I can't see the comic aspect of that one at all. Despite Baby Doll, I find myself moved by The Glass Menagerie, A Streetcar Named Desire (even though I loathe all the yelling), The Roman Spring of Mrs. Stone and the two aforementioned plays.

Tennessee Williams' poems, most of them written before he began to ride on the back of the tiger of success, are sometimes very lyrical and beautiful. A few can be seen here.
Avatar: Frank McHugh (1898-1981)

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movieman1957
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Re: WHAT FILMS HAVE YOU SEEN LATELY?

Post by movieman1957 »

Thanks for the link. I've seen a few of the films and don't remember them as particularly happy. A review is in order then. I had no idea he was a poet though I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

Thanks again.
Chris

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Re: WHAT FILMS HAVE YOU SEEN LATELY?

Post by RedRiver »

Williams is widely recognized as dark and cynical. But his two most famous plays are among America's best. SWEET BIRD OF YOUTH is good, though I only judge by the movie. Also "Hot Tin Roof." Some of the others fail to excite me. It says a lot about my childhood that when I watched the movie of "Menagerie," with Gertrude Lawrence and Jane Wyman, I had no idea there was a play. Wouldn't have cared if you told me. I was a movie fan!
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Re: WHAT FILMS HAVE YOU SEEN LATELY?

Post by RedRiver »

Last night, our PBS outlet ran WOMAN OF THE YEAR. This fine comedy-drama was worth missing Svengoolie for! I say comedy-drama because the first third of the story is quite witty and light, the result of fine writing by Ring Lardner, Jr and others. As the story progresses, the conflicts and the people who suffer them become more serious. I believe this was the first teaming of Tracy and Hepburn, though I'm not positive. Kate is a controversial political correspondent, Spence an easy-going sports reporter for the same paper. They fall in love, marry, and find they want different things. Otherwise, there would be no movie!

The film is well staged by the versatile George Stevens. We don't need landscapes, mountains or crashing seas. We have two commanding players. In close-up after close-up. My crazy brother says movies were about faces in those days. Not car chases, shipwrecks or flying saucers! This is a movie that had to grow on me. I've always liked it. But this time I REALLY liked it! I was in just the right frame of mind. WOMAN OF THE YEAR features great acting by two of our finest actors. A strong, solid story, told without pretense or waste.

***********If you really care, this is a big-time SPOILER ALERT!!!***********************

The conclusion doesn't really live up to the standards of Hepburn's character or the obviously enlightened writers. After all we've been shown of Kate's ambition and commitment, she finally decides her best career move is...housewife? OK, Spence! If that's what it takes, I'll give up fame, prestige and authority to stay home and make waffles! By today's standards, this is almost impossible to believe. In 1942? Maybe it would have been hard to end the story any other way. But I bet these talented screenwriters could have done it. A less submissive finale might have made this fine movie even better.
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Re: WHAT FILMS HAVE YOU SEEN LATELY?

Post by movieman1957 »

About 20 minutes in is where I turned it off initially as I thought I wasn't really in the mood for it. Saturday my mood worsened so I thought I'd give it a shot. That is about the only way TO watch it. I think I like the title "Baby Doll" better.
Chris

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Re: WHAT FILMS HAVE YOU SEEN LATELY?

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A bit late to the pajama party

That's good! Clever. I didn't know the movie was based on "27 Wagons." I've seen the play, and didn't make the connection. Certainly there are similarities, but it's Tennessee Williams. Sexual ambiguity, sado-masochism, despair and self loathing are always on the menu!
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Re: WHAT FILMS HAVE YOU SEEN LATELY?

Post by CineMaven »

“WOMAN OF THE YEAR”

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SHE worked well with Cary Grant in four films, was the "It Actress" in Hollywood in the early 30's, and labelled “Box Office Poison.” HE worked well with a number of 1930’s leading ladies. 1942 introduces the first of several pairings of what is to become one of Hollywood’s great screen teams: Spencer Tracy and Katharine Hepburn. I admit I go back ‘n forth with my admiration for “WOMAN OF THE YEAR” depending on where I am in my own life. I get my back up over that falling strap in her outfit or those damned waffles. ( I’m a french toast gal myself. )

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But the last time I saw the movie I was amazingly calm about its last ten minutes because something clicked with me re: the first two-thirds of the film. I got a different slant on things this last time.

Image Image Image

I usually am annoyed by the feminization of Hepburn’s ‘Tess Harding.’ Her having to subjugate her ambition to keep her husband. It pains me to see her acquiesce her position as role model to hundreds of the new generation of women; gals hitting the job market to make a meaningful and self-fulfilling contribution to the world and not just sit idly under the apple tree waiting for Johnny to come marching home. ( Oooh, am I mixing my World War metaphors? )

Oy vey! My aching high horse. What am I kicking about? Lemme get over myself. :roll: I was seeing the glass half-empty when it was actually half-full.

You're right Red, this is a romantic comedy-drama and Stevens has the right touch to seamlessly weave the two genres. We slowly slide into their conflicts until we have a full-on blow-out. There's cracks in this marriage and she tries to keep up appearances for the press.

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The full-on schism concerns the little Greek war orphan Hepburn wants to adopt without consulting Tracy. She walks out into the night alone losing that battle not only to Tracy, but to the little orphaned boy himself. ( Ahhhh...he knows what he wants even if Hepburn doesn't. ) That's one of my favorite shots of Hepburn in her career, coming out into the night with her slacks and long camel-haired coat, pulling up her collar and walking into the darkness. And I loved seeing Tracy & Hepburn battle, crossing swords, standing toe-to-toe with each other as man & woman, and as actors. Hepburn is confident, competent in a role that fits her like a glove. I think she understand this woman. Tracy...meat and potatoes, doesn't sweat anybody. Comes in does his thing, hits a homerun and goes home. For me their chemistry is not sexual, but I get off on their mutual respect for each other...as equals. ( Awwwwwright Spence, you can have top billing! :P )

For two-thirds of “Woman of the Year” I get to see Hepburn in her glory...in full command; in charge, juggling, organizing - not giving advice to the love-lorn or being a Suzy Homemaker, but being a mover and a shaker on the world stage. And if I’m being honest, what I saw for two-thirds of the movie is a woman who is uncompromising, who wants it all on her terms...her way. I liked the gentle switch in gender identification between the two of them, where Tracy takes on the more feminine posture ( “You didn’t notice my new hat” ) while Kate gets to “act like a man” ( my way or the highway. ) Look, I’m making grand generalizations here. What I used to think was assertiveness on Kate’s part, was moreso unfair steam rolling. She learns a thing or ten from her mentor: the wonderful Fay Bainter.

At least until this last go 'round with the movie, I thought Hepburn was going to have to turn into a housewife. Even saying that is insulting to "housewives" because they're the ones with the big job of keeping home and family together. ( Truth be told, they're running things more times than not...but they let their husband think he is. ) It finally dawned on me the impact of what Tracy tells her at the end of the movie before the happy fade-out. He wants her to be Tess Harding Craig. ( L0L! "Craig's Wife" as it were, but that's a different movie about an obsessive. ) He's not giving her an "either/or" choice. I think he was giving her permission to be both a wife/partner...and the chance to continue to "save-the-world." ( Flying saucers would come in the 50's. )

And he is not giving her HIS permission. He is assuring her that she could give HERSELF permission to be all that she could be.
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Re: WHAT FILMS HAVE YOU SEEN LATELY?

Post by movieman1957 »

Well, you nailed it. I have always thought that Tess thinks he wants a housewife. That is not why he fell in love with her. I wonder if that scene, in part, wasn't the beginning of a do-over on messing up with adopting the little boy. A way to show him she could do it. Oh, I feel his pain when he finds out she has gone and done this without consulting him. How could she be so short sighted on something that big? Not including him on the decision completely dismisses his role in the marriage. She just doesn't see it. That hurts him. If he had been asked he might have gone along with it but you can be sure he would have weighed the decision.

Women, and men for that matter, can learn to cook. That is really all not that important, I think. We fall in love with a soul and heart. Everything else is just window dressing. We don't want someone to be what they are not. And we certainly don't want them to get too full of themselves. Tess did and really left Sam behind for a while. She tried coming home on the wrong road. Be yourself, Tess.
Chris

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Re: WHAT FILMS HAVE YOU SEEN LATELY?

Post by RedRiver »

Cine-miraculous!

Her having to subjugate her ambition to keep her husband.

While you, myself and MovieMan have made peace with this concept, I still consider it a little bit of a sell-out. "Don't worry, men. It's still your world!"

a woman who is uncompromising, who wants it all on her terms

"What could YOU have to do that's so important?" OUCH!

one of my favorite shots of Hepburn in her career

She's wonderful in this complex role.

he is not giving her HIS permission. He is assuring her that she could give HERSELF permission to be all that she could be.

Tracy's character is not demanding or domineering. He could give a **** about waffles!

Awwwwwright Spence, you can have top billing!

"This is a movie, you chowderhead. Not a lifeboat!"
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Re: WHAT FILMS HAVE YOU SEEN LATELY?

Post by JackFavell »

WOW. You guys have completely won me over. What a great discussion of Woman of the Year! I am going to go back now and watch with fresh eyes after reading your marvelous insights. Red, Maven, and Chris, you really changed my viewpoint on the ending of this movie. I feel like I can finally watch without cringing in embarrassment.
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Re: WHAT FILMS HAVE YOU SEEN LATELY?

Post by RedRiver »

Wendy J. Favell! It's great to hear from you.
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Re: WHAT FILMS HAVE YOU SEEN LATELY?

Post by movieman1957 »

Hi Wendy.
Chris

"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana."
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Re: WHAT FILMS HAVE YOU SEEN LATELY?

Post by JackFavell »

Hi! Nice to see you guys. :D
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Re: WHAT FILMS HAVE YOU SEEN LATELY?

Post by CineMaven »

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MovieMan1957 - Your post put a lump in my throat and a tear in my eye.

I think Tess was making amends ...but on her entire behavior throughout her marriage. We were watching a gal make all kinds of mistakes in what her world view was of marriage. It is a partnership...one of sharing, consulting and compromising. It’s more than who’s going to take out the trash or do the dishes.

Yeah...cooking or not should not define one’s masculinity or femininity. Cooking is not my strong suit. ( Pots have been burned while I was boiling water for tea. ) But I can read instructions and put together an IKEA book case on my own.

Why the lump and a tear?
“We fall in love with a soul and heart. Everything else is just window dressing”
I’ve been dazzled by window dressing. But when attracted to people who are “unavailable” I see now that I probably was reacting to what’s inside them. I can beat myself up a little less now.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Cine-miraculous!
The Mighty River - LOL! I’m no miracle worker. I’m just a dyed-in-the-wool-lazy-CineMaven. :D
__________

Her having to subjugate her ambition to keep her husband.
While you, myself and MovieMan have made peace with this concept, I still consider it a little bit of a sell-out. "Don't worry, men. It's still your world!"
It still is the teensiest bit of a sell-out. But I’ve made my peace with it. I chalk it up to the Hollywood ending Hollywood needed. My issue now is with the wig Stanwyck wears in “Double Indemnity.” Oy vey!! And look, men need not worry. You all still own this planet. ( Now will you take out the trash?! :P )

__________

...A woman who is uncompromising, who wants it all on her terms.
"What could YOU have to do that's so important?" OUCH!"
OUCH! Is right! What a zinger. Dismissed out of hand. Hopefully some men recognized themselves in that remark when ‘the little woman’ wants to tell him about HER day.
She's wonderful in this complex role.
I enjoy her in this far far more than do her Traci Lords in “The Philadelphia Story.” I’m sure Hepburn lived this story in moving her career forward in Hollywood.

__________

And he is not giving her HIS permission. He is assuring her that she could give HERSELF permission to be all that she could be.
Tracy's character is not demanding or domineering. He could give a **** about waffles!

You’re right about that. I don’t know that we would see Gable be so quietly tolerant during all this. He probably would slug her. No, Tracy is very secure in his masculinity. Ying and Yang.


__________

Awwwwwright Spence, you can have top billing! :P
"This is a movie, you chowderhead. Not a lifeboat!"
Haaaaaaaaaaaah!! That Tracy. He always knew wassup. He didn’t get things confused.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
WOW. You guys have completely won me over. What a great discussion of Woman of the Year! I am going to go back now and watch with fresh eyes after reading your marvelous insights. Red, Maven, and Chris, you really changed my viewpoint on the ending of this movie. I feel like I can finally watch without cringing in embarrassment.
ACTION JAXXXON!!! - I hope you’ll jot down a loine or three of re-evalutaion if and when you find time to check out the movie.
"You build my gallows high, baby."

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