JAPANESE MOVIES - ANY OTHER FANS ?

[Mr. Arkadin]

Many of the films you mentioned directed by Yimou Zhang have never had a DVD release here which is a pity because I would love to see them.

Gong Li is one of my favorite actresses. Here's the trailer for Raise the Red Lantern:
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Here's the opening scene:
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Raise the Red Lantern, To Live, and Shanghai Triad are all available in Region 1 and look good. Ju Dou is available, but is a terrible scatchy print. Nothing like the high quality VHS that came before. Red Sorghum has never been released to DVD but the original VHS print looks great. It's very important that you see a good print because Yimou's films are beautifuly shot and are especially dominated by primary colors that often play a role in the film. Here's an example from Ju Dou, which is basically a reworking of The Postman Rings Twice set in 1920's China where two frustrated individuals are working in a cloth dyeing mill. You don't have to be Fellini to figure this out:

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[bryce]

It deserves mentioning that Yimou directed the recent Beijing Olympics opening ceremony. From my understanding, it was distinctly his vision (you can tell) and I couldn't think of a better director to undertake a work of such grand scope and flawless execution. There are many parts I am sure he himself was critical of, especially considering his past troubles with the Chinese government and the fact that they interfered with his work, but it is an incredible work of art nonetheless.

I cannot stress enough just how right Mr. Arkadin is in his undying promotion of Yimou's films. If you have not experienced his art then, unbeknownst to you, there is a void waiting to be filled within your soul. Yes, I do realize the pretentious nature of that statement, but he is one of the few directors alive today - I am counting on one hand here - that relates to and creates cinema on the same level as Akira Kurosawa or Fellini or the handful of past creators who breathed celluloid as if it were air. Yimou's films have that personal tone and severity which were the hallmarks of past masters; his eye rivaling that of Kubrick or Kurosawa's; his ability to weave a story equal to that of Leone, Fellini or any of the French masters.

See his films. You must. Once you even see just one you will immediately feel the void. Cancel all plans for the next few days and pencil in a Yimou film each night. For whatever reason he remains largely unsung nearly the world over - only recently did his own people "discover" him to be a "national treasure" - which is extremely criminal. There may be other filmmakers out there whose films are more intimate or exciting to you, but I dare you to find me one who elevates, in the long but rarely followed tradition of past brilliance, film to art.

[bryce]

I would also like to add that Mr. Arkadin's list is hardly an introduction to Japanese cinema. As if his list needed any praise or backing - it doesn't - it is an intense crash-course in Japanese cinema.

I'm afraid I'll be the sole detractor of Dawtrina's list (of which I actually have seen nearly every picture, aside from Tokyo Gore Police) here. Most of the films you cite are cult films and nothing more. That is fine, of course, but let's not elevate them to the level of high art. Park is an excellent but unproven craftsman who is spot-on at best and highly in need of an editor at worst. Some folks might even declare that to be faint praise. I call it the beginning of what I hope to be a long and quality career.

With regards to Japanese horror: it is just as derivative as most American horror. I'm not sure you could even attribute Western horror remakes to The Departed seeing release, as there is a long tradition of remaking successful Asian films for American audiences. Scorsese is certainly the type of director who would have taken notice regardless of what teenaged and college-aged hipsters were watching. (That is not intended to be a jab at you)

This is surely coming off rather brash and for that I'm sorry. You're on the receiving end of a lot of disdain I have for otaku and fans of modern Asian cinema - which, I might add, takes root not one iota in what you label "traditional" Asian cinema and instead is strongly influenced by the more extreme ends of Asian entertainment. You know, the sort of entertainment that Park himself parodies endlessly in Oldboy. Plus, show me one modern Asian director who has done for sci-fi or horror what John Carpenter did and I'll eat my hat, film it, then upload it to youtube for your viewing pleasure.

I'll be over here enjoying my utterly pedestrian Western cinema like High Tension, Hostel, The Devil's Rejects, Seven, Man Bites Dog, Meet the Feebles and... oh, you get the point. Call me old and crotchety (I've been hearing it since I was 15) and you just might be right, but I'll take boring old traditionalists any day of the week over the hip, new modernists that've come (crawling on the ceiling or out of the well, OH BOY!!! that NEVER gets old!) to save us from the cold iron clamps!!! of mediocrity.

[Dawtrina]

Oh boy, I've missed this place!

Bryce, I actually agree with much of what you say, but I think you misunderstood my intentions. My apologies if my stream of consciousness post was misleading.

I would argue your comment 'cult films and nothing more' though. Yes, much of what I talked about could safely be regarded as cult film but I always find that a dangerous term to use. I prefer genre film. Cult films are merely films that have a very dedicated niche audience: the term should have no implication to quality, genre or nationality. Nowadays most silent films and precode films really ought to be counted as cult films: the majority of filmgoers have never heard of them and would hardly be interested if they had. You mention John Carpenter: most of his output is certainly cult film and that doesn't make it bad.

My point was that while it may be cult film to our western eyes, it generally isn't cult film in Japan, it's mainstream; and most Japanese film is genre film, even going back to the classics on Mr Arkadin's list. Akira Kurosawa films like The Seven Samurai, Yojimbo and Sanjuro are chambara; Seijun Suzuki films like Tokyo Drifter or Branded to Kill are yakuza movies; Kaneto Shindo films like The Black Cat and Onibaba are horror (though admittedly far from J-Horror). It's probably notable that Kim Ki-duk, probably the easiest eastern modern director to classify along with the European greats because of his implementation of high art isn't particularly enjoyed in the east.

I raised Tokyo Gore Police to make another very deliberate point. Its sheer unrestrained energy and lack of taboo or even commerciality is somethng that is quintessentially Japanese and not something you'd generally see from anywhere else in the world. This sort of thing is one of the key reasons why modern Japanese cinema is so fascinating to me. Other than that, it's an awful film by any standards: it's too long, it makes no sense and the filmmakers literally gave up on trying to follow a plot about ten minutes in. It feels like the product of a bunch of anime and special effects otaku sitting down in a room playing a game of 'wouldn't it be awesome if we could put this in' and literally not caring about anything else. It's an imagination rush and from your comments, I'd guess that you'd hate it.

There are some films from other countries that contain a similar sort of approach, though from very different cultural backgrounds, and you mention a few of them (Man Bites Dog is a great example and Meet the Feebles too, though that's hardly western: southern maybe). However I'd suggest that there are probably more Takashi Miike films that fit this logic than from all other countries combined, and he's only one Japanese director. The same could possibly be said for less prolific names like Shinya Tsukamoto or Sogo Ishii or others.

I'm far less enthralled by torture porn and the Splat Pack directors than it would seem you are, but I certainly enjoy some of that material. Rob Zombie's roots are mostly in American splatter but I'd suggest that torture porn like Hostel owes its entire existence to eastern cinema. Takashi Miike movies like Ichi the Killer and Audition, along with a prevalence of torture in Japenese cinema in more extreme things like the Guinea Pig series, paved the way for Saw (an Australian film) and the Americans only came in after that became such a success in the west.

I should also mention that not all of what I mentioned is genre film or cult film. Memories of Murder is still resonating with me as a thoroughly unique and highly artful approach to a true life murder case. JSA: Joint Security Area is a powerful drama about human interaction. Kim Ki-duk films like The Bow and Samaritan Girl remind me of Ingmar Bergman in their investigation of the human condition through symbolism. Of course these are all Korean rather than Japanese but...

[charliechaplinfan]

I'm certainly getting an education around here, thanks folks

From Yimou Zhang's career I have only seen Hero and House of the Flying Daggers, my husband is a big fan of these two films, I'd love to see more.

Those trailers Mr Arkadin have whetted my appetite, Red Sorghum is having a release here in January, so I'm hopeful that the rest will follow.

Today I've watched Yohiki, one of Mizoguchi's last and only (I think) colour film. The colour in this is comparable to a Powell and Pressburger film, it's that lucious. It's a lyrical lovestory of a lovesick Emperor who finds a new love only to have her family get rich and because of this his enemies march against him, his love has to sacrifice herself to save the Emperor and the Empire. This film was a sumptutous treat.

Next I settled down with my little girl to watch Grave of the Fireflies it was quite timely as it's memorial day tomorrow and she had been learning about memorial day. The action takes place in the last days of the Second World War in an unnamed city in Japan. It's quite a sad but spiritual story and it when it have finished my little girls eyes were wet. The film was so well done, many questions developed in her mind and we had a good talk about the ending and how it could be seen as the correct ending for the children and also about war and why it was fought and why people were starving in Japan. I've got to applaud the filmmaker for not going down the Disney route of everything turns out right in the end but to let children into the reality of what can go on, it isn't the kind of film you can put on and leave a child to watch alone, the style of storytelling is just as powerful for an adult.

I'm looking forward to watching another film, heaven only knows what questions they'll provoke.

[Mr. Arkadin]

It's nice to hear Red Sorghum will finally be released. If the print looks good, I'll buy the Region 2 rather than wait another 10 years for someone to release it here. In regard to what Yimou you have seen, there is really no comparison to his early work with Li (with whom he was romantically involved at the time). These early films were banned in China although they won awards at Cannes and other places. As Bryce mentioned, Yimou was harassed and censored in his own land where his pictures were seen as allegorical and threatening to those in power. You can see a bit of this history in To Live (1994), which deals with a single family and its struggle to live under Communist rule. While working under pressure (or in this case oppression) might not be good for stress levels, it often creates great art, which is definitely the case here.

Glad you saw Grave of the Fireflies. It's a wonderful movie that disproves the notion that many westerners have of Anime as "cartoons". There are many wonderful stories that happen to be animated, but for years in the U.S., we defined animation as "for children", which is pretty silly when you think of all the effort that goes into making such films.

[charliechaplinfan]

I think I'm going to preorder Red Sorghum.

I was surprised that when my daughter came back from school today she wanted to watch Grave of the Fireflies again. It's certainly got her imagination going. She's watched Spirited Away and Howl's Moving Castle with her Dad and we are getting her some more for Christmas.

It seems that I've only touched the tip of the iceberg of Asian film so far.

[charliechaplinfan]

Another foray into the world of Japanese film today.

Firstly, one I rented Princess Raccoon, made in 2005 the last movie Suzuki has directed. It's very theatrical in style, the dialogue is spoken and sung, and the story is an Japanese fairytale. It's quite girly.

Secondly, Along with my daughter I watched Princess Mononoke. Grave of the Fireflies was more up my street but this captured my daughter's interest. The story is so multilayered I really had to watch it carefully and explain bits of it too her. I'm sure we'll watch it again soon o get more out of it.

[Mr. Arkadin]

While I like Princess Mononoke, its not my favorite of Miyazaki's works. I love Porco Rosso (1992), but the number one priority for any Miyazaki fan should be his flagship film, Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind (1984).

Teaser for Nausicaa:
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A short bit of video from Porco Rosso with the music theme Somewhere in Time:
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[charliechaplinfan]

I didn't take to Mononoke as much as Grave of the Fireflies. I keep trying to get my daughter to watch Porco Rosso but so far she's being stubborn.

[charliechaplinfan]

Here's my first introduction to Naruse



It's one of the best purchases I ever made, is it available in the States, it is a must for any Japanese film fan.

[Mr. Arkadin]

Very nice. I've had some of the Eureka stuff. It was all Region 2, but defintely nice transfers on a level with Criterion here in the States. I wish all these folks would settle on one standard for DVD instead of all this regional stuff.

[charliechaplinfan]

It would be great if they would do that. I've lost count of the region 1 dvds I've ordered from the States.

Yesterday I saw Late Chrysanthemums by Naruse. This film conentrated on the lives of three retired Geishas, it's a great character study, one of those lovely Japanese films that is just a story about life. One of the actresses Haruko Sugimara is in many of the Japanese films I've seen. She usually plays a business woman or runs a geisha house, she's such a great actress.

[MikeBSG]

I'd like to recommend two samurai films from the Sixties. "Samurai Assassin" is very talky and based on a true incident in the Meiji Restoration era, but then it explodes with one of the greatest action sequences I've ever seen, a huge swordfight in a snowstorm shot in black-and-white.

"Goyokin" is in color. It starts well, dawdles in the middle, and then ends with a powerful duel in the snow. (Clearly, I have a thing about sword fights in the snow.)

Both are worth a look.

[charliechaplinfan]

I remember watching Ran for the first time and Hero, the colours used are amazing. I also remember reading Memoirs of a Geisha many years ago and then watching the movie and being so dissappointed, it could have been so much better.

Last night I watched the second of the Naruse set. Floating Clouds is a love story that started in an extra marital affair between a forest ranger and a secretary. Both were working away from home, once home the husband goes back to his wife and the secretary is destitute. The lives of these two keep intertwining both, they can't keep apart. The male lover has a wandering eye and this complicates things. The girl can't leave him, even though she tries.

Someone on this thread said that Naruse's films are very sensitive to the female's point of view. He is a huge strength of his.

Does anyone know of a good book or how to read up on the Japanese film industry?