Lost Renee Adoree, John Gilbert Movies Found!!!!

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Gagman 66
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Lost Renee Adoree, John Gilbert Movies Found!!!!

Post by Gagman 66 »

:D Wow! this is big, big, news! According to silentera.com, Josef' Von Sternberg's THE EXQUISITE SINNER (1926) Starring Renee Adoree, and Conrad Nagle, and with a young Myrna Loy in the cast, long believed lost, has been found complete in the MGM-United Artists archive! Man what I wouldn't give to see Renee in a film with a title like that! And it's Von Sternberg after THE SALVATION HUNTERS (1925), but before UNDERWORLD (1927)! It appears that they may have ran across the movie while searching for LONDON AFTER MIDNIGHT AKA "THE HYPNOTIST"? I wish I knew what kind of shape the film were in, but I don't have the details at this time.

:) In addition, another lost John Gilbert film has been uncovered too! 12 MILES OUT (1927) with both Joan Crawford, and Billie Dove was supposed to only exist in 9.5 Millimeter, and only about 45 minutes was known to survive for many years. Recently, a complete 35 Millimeter print was discovered! After hearing about this a couple weeks back, I have now confirmed that the story is true! Although most sources still list this title as just a fragment, or even a Lost film?

8) In still another remarkable find, 3 out of the five reels of Lon Chaney's TRIUMPH (Universal, 1917) have also been uncovered! Does anyone have more information concerning any of these remarkable finds? I am still trying to confirm that a print of FORBIDDEN HOURS (1928) with Renee and Ramon Novarro is in the same collection? If you have more info please share what you know?
Last edited by Gagman 66 on October 17th, 2008, 12:28 pm, edited 4 times in total.
coopsgirl
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Post by coopsgirl »

That's wonderful news!! Let's hope that more "lost" films keep turning up.

If politicians are really serious about job creation, then they should get people working going through these vaults to see what's hiding in there. :D
“I never really thought of myself as an actor. But I’d learned to ride on my dad’s ranch and I could do some roping stunts and working as an extra was better than starving as an artist nobody wanted on the West Coast.” - Gary Cooper
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Post by drednm »

Great news! Let's keep our fingers crossed for FLAMING YOUTH (1923) with Colleen Moore and MADAME SANS-GENE (1924) with Gloria Swanson.... among others
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Post by myrnaloyisdope »

Great news about The Exquisite Sinner, I mean another von Sternberg is always welcome and it has Myrna too!

I'd love to see Flaming Youth turn up, and some of Wellman's silents like Legion of the Condemned and Ladies of the Mob.

I'm still waiting on Convention City too.

It's nice to hear about these discoveries because it offers a little bit of hope that any number of films might still be floating around somewhere.
"Do you think it's dangerous to have Busby Berkeley dreams?" - The Magnetic Fields
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Gagman 66
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Updated Info on Silent Era.com

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:D Here is some updated information on this title and several others that I just found on Silent Era. Com

Information on the status of films previously listed here as lost: A complete print of Josef von Sternberg’s The Exquisite Sinner (1926) and a print (missing the last reel) of Lillian Gish’s final MGM film The Enemy (1927) are known to exist in the Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer film archive. An early Mary Pickford IMP film, In the Sultan’s Garden (1911), exists in the Library of Congress film archive. A print of Norma Talmadge’s Camille (1927) exists (with fragments missing) in the film collection of The Douris Corporation. The films Drag(1929) and Wonder of Women (1929) are known to exist in a major American film archive.
:? However, Silent Era doesn't have all the latest developments I'm sorry to say. For instance Clarence Brown's BUTTERFLY (1924) status is listed as "UNKNOWN" So is HER BIG NIGHT (1926), both with Laura La Plante. Not only do those two films still exist in 35 Millimeter, but they have been recently restored by UCLA! They also list Tod Browning's-Lon Chaney's THE BLACK BIRD (1926) as surviving only in a 16 millimeter reduction positive, and how outdated is that information??? The movie is not only on TCM this month, but as I have seen this already, I can assure you that it is most definitely not derived from a 16 Millimeter source! I sent them some notes.

:shock: Another really new one to me is THE BLOODSHIP (Columbia, 1927) with the beautiful Jacqueline Logan, and Richard Arlen. This film was apparently restored in the past two years, and even received a live screening about a year ago? Sounds like a good one. I couldn't even find this film listed in any category on Silent Era.com??? Anyone with additional inforamtion please give us the scoop?

:roll: Back in July, Charles Tabesh inferred that Warner's might at least be looking into Sid Terror's claims concerning LAM just on the off chance that while fuzzy on the details, Sid may have actually seen something back then? He didn't elaborate though. Probably because Mr. Tabesh didn't have much solid information himself on what was going on.
Last edited by Gagman 66 on October 16th, 2008, 2:50 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by Synnove »

Great news!!! :D
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Post by MissGoddess »

They found The Exquisite Sinner within their own archive? That must mean they really have not gone through everything they own and that other films could still be sitting around, waiting to be discovered and disintigrating. I hope they keep digging!
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Post by Lzcutter »

Jeffrey,

Can you provide a link to Nitrateville for this? I've searched their website but can't find the thread.

I'd love to read what Richard May has to say on the subject.

Thanks!
Lynn in Lake Balboa

"Film is history. With every foot of film lost, we lose a link to our culture, to the world around us, to each other and to ourselves."

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Post by srowley75 »

I swear, sometimes I really just wish they would allow historians to just browse through all of the archives with a fine tooth comb, if for no other reason than the sake of preserving their stock. God knows what treats are lingering out there. I'm always scared some nitwit Jerry Lewis-type intern is going to come across the long-lost last existing copy of Convention City or The Way of All Flesh and throw it in the garbage.

-Stephen
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Gagman 66
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Link To Past FORBIDDEN HOURS Screening late 2001

Post by Gagman 66 »

Lynn,

:o Here is the link to the story about the FORBIDDEN HOURS screenings in 2001-2002! Richard May is even quoted in the article! What does Warner's, or your archive list's have to say about this matter??? Why is information so sketchy? Silent Era.Com needs to be informed. They still list the film Status as "Unknown".


http://www.onlineathens.com/stories/011 ... 0008.shtml
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Post by Lzcutter »

The big problem is that there is no one repository for film elements. Each studio cares for their own film libraries.

In addition, there are archives such as the AFI, the Academy, the Museum of Art, UCLA Film and Television and other archives that have been storing film elements for years and years.

There is Eastman House. There is the Library of Congress.

Then there are the various universities that house film elements because a beloved star wanted to do something for the university in their home town or home state.

So, film elements are strewn in archives and salt mines across the country (and this doesn't even count international archives).

The majority of museums and archives suffer from a lack of funds to help them transfer elements to safer media.

The good news is that there are moving image archivists across this country doing all they can (often with little recognition and often as the butt of jokes ) to help preserve our film heritage.

You can't just open the archives up for people to go through because there are nefarious people out there.

Richard May spent many of his years at MGM diligently compiling a list of all existing film elements for MGM films. He oversaw the compiling of inventory when Ted Turner bought the MGM film library. When Turner merged with Time Warner, he oversaw the moving of the elements from the MGM vault in Culver City to the Warners Bros. vault.

Do things fall through the cracks? Yes. Do things get mislabeled? Yes?
But when the smoke clears, they do a great job of preserving the best they can on the budgets they have.

Should we as a society being doing more to safe our film heritage? Of course we should. But the reality is that most states have been slashing budgets for the last couple of years and the first thing to go is funding for the arts.

No bucks. no film preservation on the scale that is needed. (To paraphrase Fred Ward in "The Right Stuff").
Lynn in Lake Balboa

"Film is history. With every foot of film lost, we lose a link to our culture, to the world around us, to each other and to ourselves."

"For me, John Wayne has only become more impressive over time." Marty Scorsese

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Gagman 66
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Post by Gagman 66 »

Lynn,

:o OK, I get that to some extent. But seriously for the price of just one lousy Hollywood movie produced today, dozens of old movies still on Nitrate stock could be transfered, and even restored. So that part is completely frustrating.

:( What I don't understand at all is why allot of the films that are restored are never seen, but for the occasional live sreening or so? Then stashed away again, sometimes for years at a time. Also why solid information is so hard to come by? And numerous sources even seem to contradict one another on the survival status of various films.

:) Here is the link about the restoration and AMPAS screening of THE BLOOD SHIP last year.

http://www.oscars.org/events/past/2007/ ... index.html
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Post by Jim Reid »

I wish I could find the post that I think David Shepard wrote a few years ago on the economics of restoration and DVD production.

You really do have to sell a certain number of units to turn a profit. The studios are all owned by big conglomerates who judge everything by profit. They have to be convinced that a big enough profit will be made to ok anything.

As far as licensing to smaller distributors, they don't really want people to make money off their property, (how embarrasing) so if they do license it they charge huge fees. It's an impossible situation.

There's also the fact that the DVD sales market hit the skids a few years ago. Time-Warner had scheduled a bunch of the MGM silents for release the next year. Those were all delayed and we are still waiting to see what will happen with them.

My hope is for a new technology. I know that one of the large computer companies is working with several studios on technology that will allow consumers to download any film in their library for a fee. Without the overhead of disc manufacture, packaging and distribution, there's no reason why any film would not be available. It's going to take a lot of work on compression to get it feesible, but I think that will be the answer.
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Lzcutter
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Post by Lzcutter »

What I don't understand at all is why allot of the films that are restored are never seen, but for the occasional live sreening or so? Then stashed away again, sometimes for years at a time. Also why solid information is so hard to come by? And numerous sources even seem to contradict one another on the survival status of various films.
>>

In archives and museums, it depends upon what the deed of gift says. Each time a donor gives something to a museum or archive, they have to fill out a deed of gift.

They can place restrictions on their gifts. And they often do, collectors especially because they don't want the feds knocking at their door.

The most important thing that we have to remember is that film preservation only became an issue in our lifetime, meaning the last thirty years or so. Remember that film is over 100 years old.

For more years than we can count studios thought their film libraries were liabilities and took up much need storage space.

Over the years, studios were slipshod (MGM seems to have been the top of the pyramid in a good way) in record keeping of what was kept and what was destroyed.

Film studios, archives, museums and international archives were never big on sharing information. We have to remember that Europe endured two world wars which re-wrote much of the map of Europe and Asia over the years. Add the Cold War and the final remnants of that and foreign archives, in some cases, have been through two or three governments and not all of them friendly.

Today the problem is how many archives have collections that are searchable on the web? Not many because that is a huge undertakng that costs money. Should they spend the money to make the collection searchable or spend the money to save a film or two. That's often the choice.

The Hollywood of today is run by multi-national corporations which is very different from in the past when they were run by men and women who cared about the movie business. Today it is about the bottom line.
We are a niche market that accounts for a fraction of the overall DVD sales. While people like Scorsese, Spielberg, Hugh Hefner and others put their money where their belief in film preservaiton is, you have many more who love to pay lip service to it and move on.

Studios are not going to fund the preservation of their film libraries until we as a society make it important for them to do so. They will continue to point to the National Registry as an example of preservation. Meanwhile, the AFI discontinues its film preservation efforts because of lack of funds.

The moving image archive and the men and women who pioneered that field developed lists, inventory and guidelines as they went along because they were dealing with it in real time as opposed to today where industry standards are more in place.

Think of the number of times in our life times that we have seen standards established for something and then been forced due to growth, new media, new evidence, etc that those guidelines had to be adjusted.

Each medium that film has been transferred to whether its three-quarter videotape (once the blue chip standard), then Beta SP (once the blue chip standard), and now DVD all come with long range guarantees.

In reality, videotape had a much longer shelf life than DVD will ever have because the digital technology we are in is constantly changing.

Films that were preserved on video had long legs in terms of years (almost forty in some regards) but they decay over time.

Add to that the problem as we go forward, how will subsequent generations be able to play the media. Will they have film projectors or ways to read hard drives that are the current vogue today but even ten years from now may be obsolete and unreadable?

These are some of the problems facing archivists as we go forward in film preservation.

The problem lies with us as a society and a country in not demanding that more be done to save and preserve our film heritage.
Lynn in Lake Balboa

"Film is history. With every foot of film lost, we lose a link to our culture, to the world around us, to each other and to ourselves."

"For me, John Wayne has only become more impressive over time." Marty Scorsese

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srowley75
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Post by srowley75 »

Lzcutter wrote:
The good news is that there are moving image archivists across this country doing all they can (often with little recognition and often as the butt of jokes ) to help preserve our film heritage.

You can't just open the archives up for people to go through because there are nefarious people out there.
Don't know if that was aimed at my comment or not, but just so you know, I was speaking tongue in cheek. I'm sure there are moving image archivists out there who know their trade and are truly good at what they do. But what I have always feared is that there will be people overseeing films in some of these places that honestly don't know what they're dealing with if they come across a rare work.

-Stephen
Last edited by srowley75 on October 17th, 2008, 6:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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