My Heroes should Never Play Bad Guys

[mrsl]

.
I never explored my feelings about this before, but last night before turning in, I looked through the nights programming and noticed this unknown film starring Joel McCrea, so I set the timer to tape it. The name was The Lone Hand, and it started out as a charming little story of a father and son settling a farm. I can't think of the boys' name but he was in all TV shows and movies through the 50's, and you would know him as soon as you saw him. The love interest was lovely Barbara Hale, who is a terrific match for McCrea's quiet and gentle demeanor. In the very beginning the boy (who is narrating), makes the statement, "This was the day my dad started to go bad". Well I ignored it as just a funny way of speaking, but about a half hour into the movie, I found Joel robbing stage coaches, and banks, etc. I didn't like that at all. This is why I can never make myself watch Henry Fonda in Once Upon a time In the West. I love Fonda most of the time and can't take his total change of nature so lightly. I want my heroes to be heroes, not bad guys.

Spoiler:

I almost turned the movie off, but something made me continue to see what happened to Joel at the end. Well it's not until the last 15 minutes or so that you learn exactly what is really going on. He's actually working with the law and is a good guy after all but the whole thing was done so well, that I thought I was seeing a whole new Joel McCrea. I've seen a lot of westerns where the star is working under-cover, but it usually comes out early in the movie, but this one gave very few clues. Someone else might see them better than I did, but I was held in the dark, quite well.

This is certainly not a great movie, but it is much better than the average 'B' movie. It's a good one for a boring afternoon, which should be coming up in the next few months.
.

[ken123]

mrsl,
During the last five years have my mothers life I took care of her 24/7. She was a great fan of Barbara Hale,one Saturday night we were watching a film for the 1950s which starred MsHale as a sexy night club singer,during the film as it showed that Barabaras character was a femme fatale with no heart or morals, my mother said " I don't like her in that role ". I guess she had feelings similiar to yours when it comes to hero/heroines.

[MissGoddess]

Interesting topic, Anne. I guess with me it depends on the degree of their badness or maybe I should say, how they are depicted. I think I have the most trouble when it's a more modern film with graphic scenes, cursing, etc. That's my issue with Fonda in OUATITW. It's too violent and graphic for my stomach. But I appreciate Fonda's bad guy in Firecreek. It was a more nuanced character than in the Leone film, one in whom you could see the man and not just a killing machine.

Glenn Ford is rather interesting as a villain in 3:10 to Yuma, again, it's not a graphic film and he does show us his humanity.

Robert Ryan, usually the bad guy and stunningly so, but I still prefer his protagonists.

Clark Gable's most notable early work was as a villain and boy, was he cute. Love his baddies. I often think of Robert Ryan as Clark Gable with brains and more daring choices of roles.

One of Gary Cooper's most interesting parts was his last one in The Naked Edge, where the audience is not sure if he really is a killer or not.

I guess the bottom line for me is not whether my favorite movie "heros" play "villains", so long as the movie does not exalt the truly villainous as a hero.

[stuart.uk]

Henry Fonda in Firecreek and Once Opon A Time In The West
Duke nearly did in The Searchers and Red River, but he redeemed himself in time
Barbara Stanwyck played evil as well as heroines with equal skill, The Violent Men an example
Dean Martin played a villain in Rough Night In Jericho
Stewart Granger played a spiv having an affair with John Mills wife in war time drama Waterloo Road

[klondike]

Stu, is being a spiv worse than being chavvy?

[mrsl]

.
Hey Miss G and Stuart:

Isn't it odd that I've seen all the pictures that you both mentioned, yet none of them triggered me to writing any kind of declaration. You're both quite right about all of the men being normally heroic or at the least 'nice', but Joel is something special as far as his normal choice of role. I think the Duke would also bring out some sort of shock from me. But, Ms. Goddess, I think you are 100% correct as far as the cinematics go. Stark graphics DO make a shooting more startling, and sad to say, often when watching the old TV western series, if I see a man shot in the chest, I find myself expecting to see blood dripping or at the least, a stain, but most times neither appears, and that says a lot of bad things about me. I am so inured to unpleasant visuals, they rarely bother me. Watching certain movies, I still avert my eyes because previous scenes have already shown me I had better, so at least I can still deliberate what I can stomach and what I can't. But the fact that I can accept any kind of blood spurting still makes my values questionable, and I fear for that in my grandkids. If, after a long lifetime of certain ideals, I can change over a matter of about 10 to 15 years, what goes on in my grand daughters' mind who has already seen such images throughout her short life?

Beyond that however, getting back to the theme of this thread, I never had a problem accepting Randolph Scott as the good guy all the time, considering that in many of his movies, he is actually a bounty hunter. I guess because he usually has a personal reason for wanting to bring the prey to justice, as in todays' Ride Lonesome (my favorite of all Scott movies). Also, like in Ride the High Country, he faces himself and chooses the right side before the end.
.

[Lzcutter]

Randolph (cue chorus) Scott is great playing against type in Ride the High Country.

[moira finnie]

Lynn, your new avatar of Doug Sr. is ravishing!

I often think of Robert Ryan as Clark Gable with brains and more daring choices of roles.

That's a superb description, Miss G. How I wish that Clark Gable had been encouraged to play the sort of roles that Ryan made his own.

I enjoy it when normally heroic actors have the nerve to play baddies--though it must have been as hard to get someone like Ronald Colman to play a murdering (but romantic) nutjob in a movie like A Double Life as it was to get him to shave off his mustache. I always get a kick out of James Stewart's baddies. Though all his angrier characters have their reasons, he was so great at portraying men who were conflicted it was a wonder when they survived to ride into the sunset. I realize that some of my favorite actors (Lloyd Nolan, James Mason, Claude Rains, and yes, Gilbert Roland) were equally adept at playing miscreants as well as heroes. I was shocked recently to find that darling Ian Hunter played a villainous knave or two in the later years of his career, (see She Played with Fire (1957) aka Fortune Is a Woman for further proof of this) .

One actor whom I prefer in good guy roles, exclusively: Aldo Ray.