British spies investigating Charlie Chaplin?

[markfp]

Here's a fascinating article about MI5's search into Chaplin's background. Very interesting.I must admit I'd never heard about this before.

http://worldnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/20 ... in-mystery

[moira finnie]

That fascinating article and the history of the invasion of privacy into Chaplin's life by the FBI and, apparently MI5, seems quaintly horrendous. Given that he was born in 1889, possibly at home in the vastness of London, in that more romantic sounding gypsy caravan, in France or even Russia, it doesn't seem odd at all that a birth certificate didn't exist for an individual who came into the world at a time when governments were just beginning to keep proper records for citizens.

From this distance in time, It does seem funny that bureaucracies on both sides of the Atlantic should be wasting time investigating where Chaplin was born. I suppose they hoped to find out that Charlie was a member of a sleeper cell in a vast Bolshevik conspiracy?! Frankly, I always thought that Chaplin's politics were rooted in his real poverty as a youth. The emotional impulse to be somewhat empathetic with those without a voice, liberal causes, and people who were tainted by some association with the Communist Party may not have been wise in terms of cold war politics after WWII, but he was an artist, nothing as obvious as an acolyte of Karl Marx, and almost any sensitive person who lived through the Depression must have questioned the validity of capitalism at some point. (I say "somewhat empathetic" because Charlie was reportedly rather cheap when victims of McCarthyism, such as Edward Dmytryk, put the bite on him for financial help). Chaplin's possible "Pinko" tendencies never seemed to be all that dogmatic, but displayed an instinctive, occasionally impulsive urge to root for the powerless underdog.

Thanks for bringing this historical footnote to light here, Mark.

[stuart.uk]

In a news report about the Chaplin story on the BBC we saw RobertTaylor say under oath if he had his way he'd sent communists back to Russia. By that I assume he meant even those who were alleged communists.

I'm reminded of Sam Wanamaker, who was briefly a member of the communist party, but even after he left he was still hounded by the powers that be, mind you he didn't help his case by speaking out for the rights of free speech. In the end he had to flee to the UK where he become a much respected actor, whose daughter Zoe is now a big star. I also felt sympathy for Edward G Robinson, by some accounts a sensitive man, when he came under fire for his alleged political beliefs

I wonder to about Angela Lansbury, who's grandfather, George Lansbury, was at one time leader of the UK Labour Party and was a true socialist. Angela has said she was great influenced by him. As far as I can tell a socialists was regarded more or less as communist in the U.S by the goverment of the day. Though Angela appears to have escaped any investigation.

As far as I believe Chaplin called for a 2nd front in Russia, but then they were our allies in WW2. Yet in just a few yrs we had the cold war, so why hold that against him. It's interesting that the FBI asked MI5 to investigate Chaplin, but the British secret service found nothing on him to worry about. In the film Chaplin James Wood's playing a lawyer in the case Joan Barry claiming Charlie was the father of her daughter, he went on to talk about, as he put it, Chaplin's unhealthy relationships with young girls. He said that's what leads to communism. Now weather he was right or wrong about that, what did Chaplin's sexual behaviour have to do with his political beliefs

As a Brit looking in it would be easy for me to say the communist witch hunt was a waste of time and caused distress for many folk living in the U.S, but there may have been a threat from the real KGB, who allegedy tried to assassinate John Wayne

[ChiO]

what did Chaplin's sexual behaviour have to do with his political beliefs

The psychological math of the time went something like this:

Moral Turpitude = Disloyalty (i.e. failure to uphold or adhere to strongly held national values) = Communist Subversion *

* Credit: Melodrama & Meaning: History, Culture, and the Films of Douglas Sirk (Barbara Klinger 1994)

[charliechaplinfan]

I've read a few books on Chaplin over the years, I'm pretty sure that he was born when and where he said he was, he won't be the only one who didn't have a certificate, the fact he's there in 1891 is what is important, David Robinson devoted quite a bit in his book to Chaplin's upbringing.

I think Chaplin's persecution by J Edgar Hoover had a number of strands. His sex life which angered quite a few, his stance that he was a member of the human race and not of any particular nation but he refused to take American citizenship. His 'socialist tendencies' he was good friends with Upton Sinclair, he carried a Red flag in Modern Times which was a gag to but to more uptight people might be a secret sign and most importantly advocated the opening of a second front to help Russian during the Second World War, which these days sounds like good sense but as soon as that Iron Curtain came down he was the biggest fish in the net. As soon as Joan Barry sues him for child support he gets charged under the Mann Act with is a law to stop prostitutes being moved from state to state. This all led up to him being Hoover's most wanted. I don't know as much about Hoover but it feels like he was a dog with a bone.

I'm sure Chaplin's stance on'socialism' is from his formative years, I don't think he actively subscribed to any ideaology, just like Moira has said.

[RedRiver]

My mother was convinced Chaplin fled the US because Eugene O'Neill was going to kick his ass!

[charliechaplinfan]

Was Eugene O'Neill in a position to take the moral high ground against Chaplin? I'd always thought that he had a rather chequered love life too.

[intothenitrate]

This is pretty tangential, but...remember that bit when Chaplin kicks an immigration officer in The Immigrant, and people supposedly made a big deal about it? I watched a number of Harold Lloyd films recently, and he assaults cops all the time. Just saying.

[charliechaplinfan]

That's a good point, I think they made a great deal of it after the fact, when they were trying to prove he was subversive and anti American, I'm not sure too many people complained at the time, they were probably too busy laughing.