Noir Alley

[Dargo]

What did Marion expect Charlie to do in New York? Shakespeare in the Park? Keep his ideals intact while the family goes on relief?

Actually here Bronxie, you've touched upon the very reason why I thought Charlie doin' himself in at the end of this thing was a farfetched proposition.

And this being that even though he would've been throwing the BIG Hollywood money away, with his name-recognition alone, I'm sure getting star-billing in some Broadway production would have still been entirely possible for him. Well, that is of course IF Charlie COULD actually act and wasn't just a "movie star".

I mean, remember here, a number of those blacklisted from Hollywood during the Red Scare era would still find very gainful employment on "the boards" back in the Big Apple during that time, right?!

I mean, didn't this sort of thing happen to the actor (John Garfield) who originated this role on the Broadway stage, and as just one example of an alternate and more logical course for this character that could've been taken? AND, that wouldn't have had or needed to have had ended up as a case of destitution?

(...it was just too bad Garfield had that weak heart in his case)

[kingrat]

I think the reasons for the contradictions are deep within Odets' psyche. He had prestige in Hollywood because he had been a big name on Broadway. He also made a lot more money in Hollywood. Odets is usually considered the inspiration for the Coen Brothers' Barton Fink. John Garfield himself was one who tended to put down Hollywood and talk about wanting to get back to Broadway, though this didn't happen for more than a decade.

[Bronxgirl48]

Dargo, I can't speak with any great knowledge about that blacklist era but do remember there were several actors who actually did commit suicide because they thought the accusations, whether true or not, would end their career in any entertainment medium be it stage, screen, or television. Charlie's final decision was just an example of that annoying Odets' high-mindedness which is ironic because Clifford himself felt compromised by fame. He simutaneously embraced and was embarrassed by it.

I'm sure Charlie Castle's movie-star name recognition would have garnered him a successful television career. Not so much the thee-ay-tor, lol.

[Hibi]

As wise dear old Nat tells Charlie: "Darling, please take the long view -- seven years of financial security"

You almost have to agree with Hoff, repulsive and misogynistic as he is: "The woman should stay out of her husband's business when he is providing the bread and butter"

What did Marion expect Charlie to do in New York? Shakespeare in the Park? Keep his ideals intact while the family goes on relief?

What happened to free lancing? Barbara Stanwyck did it her entire career. Didn't hurt her (except for Oscar wins). It's either 7 yr. contract or the stage? Really dumb dilemma.

Cary Grant and Irene Dunne too, after their contracts were up. Didn't hurt them either (except for Oscar wins).

[Hibi]

Dargo, I can't speak with any great knowledge about that blacklist era but do remember there were several actors who actually did commit suicide because they thought the accusations, whether true or not, would end their career in any entertainment medium be it stage, screen, or television. Charlie's final decision was just an example of that annoying Odets' high-mindedness which is ironic because Clifford himself felt compromised by fame. He simutaneously embraced and was embarrassed by it.

I'm sure Charlie Castle's movie-star name recognition would have garnered him a successful television career. Not so much the thee-ay-tor, lol.

Right. There would have been plenty of options open to him. The play/script isn't realistic at all. He may have had to reduce his salary and there might be some time between jobs. He could even have started his own production company like Kirk Douglas and others did. I don't think his life would be too shabby. Definitely not worth killing yourself over. Now if it were a film about the blacklist, then I could see that as some people did do that. Or destructed in other ways.

[Hibi]

The least Palance could've done was off himself properly like a shot in the head. Instead he goes up to the bathroom and stabs himself leaving a bloody mess all over the bathroom with the water overflowing for others to clean up! NO CONSIDERATION!

[Bronxgirl48]

Wesley Addy summed it all up but we still don't buy it. Fish four days old, etc. in signature Odets parlance, lol.

[Hibi]

Wesley Addy summed it all up but we still don't buy it. Fish four days old, etc. in signature Odets parlance, lol.

In other words, this movie STINKS!

[Cinemaspeak59]

I finally got around to watching The Breaking Point. The old saying the book is better than the movie doesn’t apply here. Not that Hemingway’s To Have and Have Not has a high bar to clear. Breaking Point, though, without being tied to the book, is a very fine film. I want to single out cinematographer Ted D. McCord’s gray, hazy aquatic images, and his use of the “two shot.”

[HoldenIsHere]

I was glad that Eddie pointed out the homosexual implications of the Elisha Cook, Jr./Lawrence Tierney relationship. Their little apartment has one bed. Elisha is reading on his side of the bed when Tierney enters the room after committing two murders and then goes to sit down on his side of the bed.

Really, you'd think that the censors didn't read the script or see the finished film.

I watched BORN TO KILL twice on Watch TCM, once by myself and then again with the sweetie. We'd not seen the movie until the recent airing on TCM's Noir Alley.
There was definitely an interesting bond between Sam (Lawrence Tierney) and Marty (Elisha Cook Jr.) that went beyond friendship. After the murders, when Sam relocates in San Francisco it's taken for granted that Marty will eventually follow.
Their conversation on the bed in their apartment has the quality of an old married couple.

MARTY Where you been?
SAM Out.
MARTY No?


Sam also makes it clear that the reason he killed Laury and her date had nothing to do with any jealousy related to his feelings for Laury romantically or sexually. He just didn't like anyone cutting in on him.

Marty also makes an interesting remark when Sam tells him about the other guy Laury was dating: "He must have been crazy thinking he had a chance after she got a load of you."


The relationship of Sam and Marty is a bit like the relationship of Gaston and LeFou in BEAUTY AND THE BEAST: hero-worship that crosses the line into something deeper on the part of the worshipper with the hero stringing the other guy along. The other guy is content just to be in the company of his hero, subsisting on any crumbs thrown his way.
The sweetie compared the Sam/Marty dynamic to the relationship of a vampire and a vampire's familiar/thrall. It is oddly similar to what we see with Dracula and Renfield in Bram Stoker's novel or with Jerry Dandrige and Bily Cole in the movie FRIGHT NIGHT. There is indeed a homoerotic element to these relationships. Stoker's text, in particular, teases the reader with the idea that Dracula will "penetrate" another male.

The sweetie and I both got a kick out of Esther Howard. What a hoot she was! Her battle with the Elisha Cook, Jr. character on the dunes was a highlight of the movie. Girl definitely was not going down without a fight --- a head butt in the abdomen followed a hat pin in the leg!

[Bronxgirl48]

The plastic surgery segment in DARK PASSAGE always creeps me out, including a scary looking Bogie with those bandages. It almost seems like a nod back from Warner's to their 1930's urban horror thrillers, DR. X, MYSTERY OF THE WAX MUSEUM and THE RETURN OF DR. X.

[txfilmfan]

The plastic surgery segment in DARK PASSAGE always creeps me out, including a scary looking Bogie with those bandages. It almost seems like a nod back from Warner's to their 1930's urban horror thrillers, DR. X, MYSTERY OF THE WAX MUSEUM and THE RETURN OF DR. X.

Scary looking Bogie? How about scary looking doctor!!

[Bronxgirl48]

Yes!! During Bogie's hallucination.

$200 for the job -- what would that come to these days?

[Hibi]

The plastic surgery segment in DARK PASSAGE always creeps me out, including a scary looking Bogie with those bandages. It almost seems like a nod back from Warner's to their 1930's urban horror thrillers, DR. X, MYSTERY OF THE WAX MUSEUM and THE RETURN OF DR. X.

Yes! And what doctor is available for surgery at 3AM??? (Even one who lost his medical license!) And he recovers in ONE WEEK??? (back then it would've been even worse than now) Come on. I watched it, but I don't think I could again. The story is just so farfetched and unbelievable. Agnes and the location shooting helps some as does the gimmick of not seeing Bogie in the beginning, but repeated viewing just makes for a lot of eye rolling. Don't want to list all the plot holes/implausibilities or the post would go on forever...

[Fedya]

The least Palance could've done was off himself properly like a shot in the head. Instead he goes up to the bathroom and stabs himself leaving a bloody mess all over the bathroom with the water overflowing for others to clean up! NO CONSIDERATION!