'TCM Underground' is DOA

[LostHorizons]

Expected after Millie was let go. Looking over that Letterboxd list, I have seen 51 films of the ones that have aired in that timeslot over the years, but I think I only saw 13 of those in the Underground programming block itself (the others were either in other timeslots on TCM, streaming, or DVDs).

it always seemed vulnerable since it was mostly unlike the rest of the channel, and also because it was the only special programming block without an onscreen host (at least since Rob Zombie stepped down)

I would guess maybe that Imports and the silent features might be next on the chopping block, that is unless the whole channel goes before then.

[CinemaInternational]

It's hard to say what will happen to the channel. On the one hand, nearly 40% of American households have cancelled cable subscriptions over the last decade, so every channel is getting much lower subscription numbers, not just TCM. But on the other hand, a facsimile of the network's main broadcast is included in some online TV channel packages that some have used to replace cable in their homes (I think Lorna said something like this on the old boards).

I still think that one main reason the channel is still around is because the Turner library is a sizable part of the Warner film library, and the channel serves much of the time as a showpiece for those holdings. If the channel goes, the value of the entire company goes down precipitously. Aside from the few titles that everyone knows (Wizard of Oz, North by Northwest), the rest would rarely be heard of again save for the rare second-hand DVD or random appearance on obscure streaming websites. They would also be risking the furious ire of many in Hollywood, who have already been threatening not to work with the main WB studio again after disputes over theatrical windows/streaming debuts and several filmed blockbusters being scrapped entirely. It would make them a complete pariah. So, yes, I do think because of this, the channel will likely stay around longer.

I think that Underground was scrapped largely because it was so different from the rest of the channel, and while most of the titles had to be quite cheap to rent, WB titles rarely turned up in it. So, it wasn't really advancing the company line, and it also frequently had repeats. I think that sealed its fate.

Silent Sunday will likely stay around because WB does own quite a few silent films, most of the others are now in the public domain and can be shown for free, and , well, it would look bad for TCM to fire Jacqueline Stewart in this day and age.

Imports could be vulnerable though. Much of that block is programmed by Criterion, after they signed a multi-year agreement with TCM/WB when they launched the short-lived FilmStruck in 2016, which closed up two years later, when new owners AT&T shut it down so they could focus on their beloved streaming omnibus HBO Max. Criterion is seemingly currently playing two sides of the fence right now by operating their own streaming service (though its impossible for yours truly to get it to work on a computer) while also lending out titles to TCM and HBO Max. I don't know when that contract ends, if its a 7 year one which would expire this year, or if it is longer-term. But once it does, Imports could very well be on the chopping block, especially since Alicia Malone has other duties on the channel.

[LawrenceA]

Yeah, I could only see TCM firing Stewart if they discontinued all the hosts, or else she chose to leave the channel. Even if they discontinued Silent Sundays, they would likely keep her on as another alternating primetime host.

I agree with your assessment about TCM Imports. I don't know the details of the deal between Warners and Criterion/Janus, but they both seem to get a boost from it at the moment, via their streamers, anyway.

I'd read on the old TCM boards that a lot of the Underground programming was to meet contractual obligations in package leasing deals for other movies TCM wanted more. They are likely going to be doing less such deals in the future. They could still find enough stuff in their own catalog to keep it going for a few more years if they wished, though, so it's hard to see much more behind this other than distaste for the "lower class" films. Maybe culture is about to enter another "puritan" phase.

BTW, I'm surprised to see your complaints about the Criterion service. I haven't had any problems with it in a year or more, and I watch it a lot, on either my FireTV stick or on my laptop.

[Intrepid37]

I've made hundreds of DVD's for my collection from the Underground offerings.

Oh, well - all things must pass.

[Andree]

Ha. Truth. I don’t think I will miss turning on TCM at 2 AM and getting Divine’s naked cellulite man butt staring back at me.

Yeah, even at 2 a.m. not something one wants to see. I like Waters and Divine in general, but one has to draw
the line somewhere.

[CinemaInternational]

I thought some more about the demise of Underground, and something suddenly clicked into place. The block had films from a variety of studios, but modern-day MGM provided quite a few of the offerings at least in recent years. The current-day MGM consists of films they did from mid 1986 onwards as well as the UA and Orion libraries, but it also included the queen mother of retro underground studios, American International Pictures, as well as many short-lived little companies of the 1980s. I would say that a good 50 to 60% of the films that aired in the block were from them.

But last year, MGM was bought by Amazon, and two other things came into play: Amazon has a streaming service that thrives on offbeat back catalog titles, and MGM themselves own a premium channel, the recently renamed MGM+ (formerly Epix) that also uses many of these titles in its on demand section. (Strangely, neither place completely utilizes the vast array of UA titles which typically have more name recognition value)

A simple guess is that TCM's contract with Amazon/MGM might have been ending or maybe renegotiated to stick mostly to UA or Orion titles which stick more to the typical TCM wheelhouse (UA titles are still popping up frequently on the channel). Without the AIP titles, which are now more in place elsewhere, or the ones from the other tiny places, it would have been next to impossible to run Underground on the type of economical budget it was likely used to, just a hunch.....

[Hibi]

Late to the discussion. Sorry to hear this. I did catch the last half of Plan 9. A fitting ending. I watched quite a few films from this series over the years. (Depending on how tired or interested I was). Too bad.

[Intrepid37]

Well, I just looked over the TCM April schedule that cmovieviewer kindly provided for us and I have to say that Underground is sorely to be missed based on what is there. Where I would usually have 6 or 8 titles circled for recording most months, I'll be lucky to find 2 if April is any example of what we'll be getting from now on.

I know that the titles shown on Underground were not good movies in terms of critical appraisal - but they were different and rare and fun and I liked adding them to my very wide collection of film.

This sucks.

[HoldenIsHere]

TCM Underground was the slot where TCM finally aired one of my all-time favorite movies GREASE 2 --- which is something I never expected.

Of course, like much what aired in that slot GREASE 2 is not truly an underground movie. In fact, it was a mainstream Paramount release with a budget of nearly $35 million in 2023 money. Programmer Millie De Chirico justified including GREASE 2 on the Underground because it was considered a flop when it was released in 1982, but gained a huge fan base among kids who grew up in the 1990s watching it on cable.
I was one those kids. (Apparently so was Andrew Garfield.)

I own the movie so I didn't need for it to air on TCM to see it, but it still made happy when it happened.