Noir Alley

User avatar
Bronxgirl48
Posts: 1474
Joined: May 1st, 2009, 2:06 am

Re: Noir Alley

Post by Bronxgirl48 »

HANGOVER SQUARE is an old favorite of mine. An excellent period melodrama-thriller but in my opinion it does not qualify as noir (and I have an expansive interpretation of this genre that goes beyond the hard-boiled detectives and dames scenario) For me, George Harvey Bone's obsession with Netta Longdon is not fatalistic -- he is just a very sick individual who cannot help his murderous rages.
User avatar
jamesjazzguitar
Posts: 771
Joined: November 14th, 2022, 2:43 pm

Re: Noir Alley

Post by jamesjazzguitar »

Bronxgirl48 wrote: February 5th, 2023, 1:05 pm HANGOVER SQUARE is an old favorite of mine. An excellent period melodrama-thriller but in my opinion it does not qualify as noir (and I have an expansive interpretation of this genre that goes beyond the hard-boiled detectives and dames scenario) For me, George Harvey Bone's obsession with Netta Longdon is not fatalistic -- he is just a very sick individual who cannot help his murderous rages.
George's obsession was in the completion of the concerto. That was what was fatalistic; anyone that got in the way had to be dealt with. We see that at the end. What is unrealistic is that the Doctor doesn't. I.e. if he would have let George go and perform his concerto, George would have gone quietly to a mental facility. But then we would not have had that one-for-the-books ending.
Last edited by jamesjazzguitar on February 5th, 2023, 3:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Sue Sue Applegate
Administrator
Posts: 3404
Joined: April 14th, 2007, 8:47 pm
Location: Texas

Re: Noir Alley

Post by Sue Sue Applegate »

Good points, Bronxgirl and jamesjazzguitar. I relish this film for several reasons, and find the music so much a part of the intrigue. Making the setting London during Guy Fawkes Day was also a little stroke of genius. It seems with Sanders present, there is always a sinister disdain for the simple, unabashed, passions of an artist or actor set to come to blows with his characters.
Blog: http://suesueapplegate.wordpress.com/
Twitter:@suesueapplegate
TCM Message Boards: http://forums.tcm.com/index.php?/topic/ ... ue-sue-ii/
Sue Sue : https://www.facebook.com/groups/611323215621862/
Thelma Ritter: Hollywood's Favorite New Yorker, University Press of Mississippi-2023
Avatar: Ginger Rogers, The Major and The Minor
MissWonderly
Posts: 28
Joined: January 6th, 2023, 4:02 pm

Re: Noir Alley

Post by MissWonderly »

Hoganman1 wrote: February 5th, 2023, 12:43 pm Did anyone watch HANGOVER SQUARE? It was pretty good. It reminded me of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde.

Also, I've read in recent posts Ms. Wonderly is now here but I haven't seen any posts from her as yet.
Hi, Hoganman;
Yup, I'm here, gravitated over a bit later than most of our TCM boards friends. Thanks for remembering me from those TCM boards--also thanks to Thompson, Dargo (?), and maybe one or two others who noticed my absence here. I guess it's a bit nice for the old ego to be noticed, but also, it sort of continues that "community" feeling we had at the TCM boards, where we all kind of knew each other, at least in an internet discussion board way.

...and I agree, Hangover Square was pretty good. More on that later. :)
Last edited by MissWonderly on February 5th, 2023, 6:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
laffite
Posts: 1891
Joined: October 27th, 2022, 10:43 pm

Re: Noir Alley

Post by laffite »

Eddie stole my thunder declaring the ending "astounding." I think he means that in a good way. I was thinking the same thing as I watched it. I yield to the idea that a movie like this needs the The Grand Finale, whatever the genre in this case may be. It was almost a horror film. One person has already mentioned Jekyll and Hyde. Or this, do vampires like boiled blood? Do they like to lick blood off of burnt torsos or bones? if so, a marvelous opportunity. But wait, they would have to use devils instead. Sorry vampies, not this time. Cinematically, that scene is a marvel.

For such a marvelous beauty as Linda Darnell, maybe it was just me but it was weirdly difficult get a good look at her. She was either preening too much or had her head turned a side too much, or moving around too much, or simply too much distant from the camera. I had to go to google images so that I could see her clearly. Only after that did I consider the move over, although by that time she was burnt to a crisp.

Cregar played similar roles, yes? Big Guy, soft voice, sensitive, and likeable, etc. Did we ever get the origin of his maladies here? Shamefully I cannot seem to remember. Yes, noise, but I mean the first cause. The cause that a Dr (George Sanders) would be looking for. He gave a theory but I can't remember. No doubt, mumbo Jumbo and primitive to our advanced Age. I would some crackpot with wondrous strange ideas than this. Poor Mr Bone, he wouldn't have had a chance anyway. "It's better this way." "Jolly right-o good Doctor, sir."
Sabine Azema in Sunday in the Country
User avatar
laffite
Posts: 1891
Joined: October 27th, 2022, 10:43 pm

Re: Noir Alley

Post by laffite »

What does that italicized exclamation point mean next Noir Alley in my previous post above? Does it mean they don't like me, wah. It must have something to do with the RE: . Did I do that somehow? Wow, this site can get scary sometimes. They ought to make a Noir out of it.
Sabine Azema in Sunday in the Country
MissWonderly
Posts: 28
Joined: January 6th, 2023, 4:02 pm

Re: Noir Alley

Post by MissWonderly »

Hangover Square was a treat for me, since it was - once again, thanks Eddie - a film I'd never seen, ( noir or not), and I love it when Noir Alley shows a pic I've never seen before. Plus, this one was very atmospheric and never boring, always a good thing in movies ( and that's an understatement.)
Poor George Harvey ! Laird Cregar is perfect for this role; He has a naturally melancholy-looking face, very big, sad eyes. Even when he's playing a creepy sort ( as he so often did), you kind of root for him, or at least, feel sorry for him. And he's particularly pathetic in Hangover Square. Or maybe I shouldn't say "pathetic", since that word has a certain connotation for contempt, or at least, disdain. Maybe "tragic" is a better word for George/Laird, since he has no evil intentions, and seemingly cannot help the crimes he commits ( the "fatal flaw" thing being, I suppose, his falling apart when he hears a "discordant sound".)
I have to say, Linda Darnell strikes a pitch-perfect note (musical allusion intended) as the shallow manipulative b!tch who uses poor old George to write her "popular" cabaret songs. You don't feel too sorry for her when she gets garrotted (?) - guess she's an Edwardian version of a femme fatale.

I felt upset for the poor kitty, although at least George didn't strangle her.

I did kind of wonder if George's score for his concerto got burned in the conflagration at the end. I hope someone rescued it, since as someone else here (james?) pointed out, ultimately it was his music George cared about more than anything else.
User avatar
laffite
Posts: 1891
Joined: October 27th, 2022, 10:43 pm

Re: Noir Alley

Post by laffite »

MissWonderly wrote: February 5th, 2023, 6:00 pm
I did kind of wonder if George's score for his concerto got burned in the conflagration at the end. I hope someone rescued it, since as someone else here (james?) pointed out, ultimately it was his music George cared about more than anything else.
...yet he went down with the score. So no matter in the temporal sense, but spiritually other sentiments may abound. The implication perhaps that the concerto will rise to unequaled heights to tower above all others for all eternity. Well, they can herald that when they do a remake of the film, which they haven't and never will. Did Bernard Herman compose the concerto? (Ha, I just corrected my spelling, I wrote "compost" the concerto?) Hey, Bernie, stick to strictly soundtrack work. We will all (me, anyway) love you for it.
Sabine Azema in Sunday in the Country
User avatar
Andree
Posts: 683
Joined: January 21st, 2023, 4:24 pm
Location: Balbec

Re: Noir Alley

Post by Andree »


Yes, George has many talents. Besides being a brilliant composer, he won the torte eating
contest at Bayreuth last year.




Meet the Edwardian psycho, same as the Victorian psycho. Style, very impressive. Some dark, eerie cinematography and
atmospheric setting in 1903 London, the Guy Fawkes bonfire being a standout. And give Bone credit for the clever idea
of putting Netta's corpse on top of the bonfire just in time. But the substance is lacking. It just the same old, same old
nutcase killer, the only difference being the individual killer's tic. In Bone's case it's discordant noises. Hey, whatever.
One does feel sympathy for the old boy, at least a limited sympathy because he is still bumping off folks. And with the
Production Code we know that Bone is going to come to some kind of bad end, and playing the piano while all around
you everything is on fire is not a bad way to end things. A cut above the usual wrong in the head flick, but still too much
of the old been there, done that plot. I looked at Leslie Halliwell's Film Guide entry on Hangover Square and he quotes
this excerpt from Richard Mallett of Punch: 'A half-chewed collection of reminiscences of Dr. Jekyll and Mr Hyde and
The Lodger.' A little harsh, but I think it sums it up pretty accurately.
Every man has a right to an umbrella.~Dostoyevsky
User avatar
laffite
Posts: 1891
Joined: October 27th, 2022, 10:43 pm

Re: Noir Alley

Post by laffite »

Andree wrote: February 5th, 2023, 6:48 pm
[...snip ... ]
But the substance is lacking. It just the same old, same old
nutcase killer, the only difference being the individual killer's tic. In Bone's case it's discordant noises.
[ ... snip ... ]
And yet the music he composes is by definition discordant (in comparison with traditional more tonal fare), being modern as it is.

Does this apparent irony have any play in all of this?
Sabine Azema in Sunday in the Country
User avatar
jamesjazzguitar
Posts: 771
Joined: November 14th, 2022, 2:43 pm

Re: Noir Alley

Post by jamesjazzguitar »

laffite wrote: February 5th, 2023, 7:15 pm
Andree wrote: February 5th, 2023, 6:48 pm
[...snip ... ]
But the substance is lacking. It just the same old, same old
nutcase killer, the only difference being the individual killer's tic. In Bone's case it's discordant noises.
[ ... snip ... ]
And yet the music he composes is by definition discordant (in comparison with traditional more tonal fare), being modern as it is.

Does this apparent irony have any play in all of this?
I believe you're on to something here. I assume when Bone performed his concerto the discordant sounds of his own music lead to his breakdown in the moment. It wasn't just because George Sanders was able to get free and showed up at the performance. Muller said that Sanders didn't like his last lines and thus didn't say them. The director should have cut Sanders out of the last scene. Then we would know that it was the music that made him do it.
Thompson
Posts: 662
Joined: November 30th, 2022, 3:04 pm
Location: New Orleans

Re: Noir Alley

Post by Thompson »

My bartender friend liked Hangover Square a lot. She was surprised I missed it but I was hungover and overslept and she was kind not to wake me, so I can’t comment on any drinks left undrunk. Dang.
User avatar
Andree
Posts: 683
Joined: January 21st, 2023, 4:24 pm
Location: Balbec

Re: Noir Alley

Post by Andree »

laffite wrote: February 5th, 2023, 7:15 pm
And yet the music he composes is by definition discordant (in comparison with traditional more tonal fare), being modern as it is.

Does this apparent irony have any play in all of this?
I'm not into classical music, but his composition didn't sound more discordant than other music from that period and it's
a rehearsed sound, not the sudden kind that seems to drive Bone cuckoo. I don't see much of an irony or else a very slight
one. I've seen Hangover Square a few times before, so there's not much of a mystery how things will turn out.
Every man has a right to an umbrella.~Dostoyevsky
User avatar
laffite
Posts: 1891
Joined: October 27th, 2022, 10:43 pm

Re: Noir Alley

Post by laffite »

Andree wrote: February 5th, 2023, 8:55 pm
laffite wrote: February 5th, 2023, 7:15 pm
And yet the music he composes is by definition discordant (in comparison with traditional more tonal fare), being modern as it is.

Does this apparent irony have any play in all of this?
I'm not into classical music, but his composition didn't sound more discordant than other music from that period and it's
a rehearsed sound, not the sudden kind that seems to drive Bone cuckoo. I don't see much of an irony or else a very slight
one. I've seen Hangover Square a few times before, so there's not much of a mystery how things will turn out.
Well, if I had seen it "a few times before," the ending wouldn't be a mystery to me either. And if you are not into classical music, how do you know about that period of music history. Just chiding you, you left yourself open with some careless verbiage. Leave it to me to be the classless opportunist that would profit from it.

:smiley_snoopy: Yes, that was really bad, laffite. You should go sit in the corner for six hours. And no Tom Terrific for a week.

I probably agree with you (not you, Snoopy ; but Andree) but is it not the purpose here to bring up anything, though it may be of the remotest significance, even if it has no significance at all? :smiley_innocent: We must look at every nook and cranny for new discoveries :smiley_innocent: To have monstrous inclinations triggered by discordant sounds in one who composes discordant music is not altogether fool. At least for a mention. It may be far fetched but nervous filmmakers might have worried just a little that they may have erred into having something that film goers mulled over that they, the filmmakers, did not intend.

And see James post above. He brings the doctor into play with this issue.
Sabine Azema in Sunday in the Country
User avatar
Andree
Posts: 683
Joined: January 21st, 2023, 4:24 pm
Location: Balbec

Re: Noir Alley

Post by Andree »

laffite wrote: February 5th, 2023, 10:06 pm

Well, if I had seen it "a few times before," the ending wouldn't be a mystery to me either. And if you are not into classical music, how do you know about that period of music history. Just chiding you, you left yourself open with some careless verbiage. Leave it to me to be the classless opportunist that would profit from it.

:smiley_snoopy: Yes, that was really bad, laffite. You should go sit in the corner for six hours. And no Tom Terrific for a week.

I probably agree with you (not you, Snoopy ; but Andree) but is it not the purpose here to bring up anything, though it may be of the remotest significance, even if it has no significance at all? :smiley_innocent: We must look at every nook and cranny for new discoveries :smiley_innocent: To have monstrous inclinations triggered by discordant sounds in one who composes discordant music is not altogether fool. At least for a mention. It may be far fetched but nervous filmmakers might have worried just a little that they may have erred into having something that film goers mulled over that they, the filmmakers, did not intend.

And see James post above. He brings the doctor into play with this issue.
Of course due to the Production Code the viewer knows that Mr. Bone will come to a bad end, they just don't know the
particulars of that end, a fairly spectacular one as it turns out. I'm not into classical music in the same way I'm not
into bluegrass music, i.e. I don't have a deep interest in either genre of music, but I've heard both over the years,
and I didn't find Mr. Bone's music to be more dissonant than other classical music I recall from that period. Bone is
disconcerted by sudden jarring sounds that are not related to his music per se. I suppose that could have some connection
to his livelihood as a composer. Then again, maybe not. Classical music is a higher end topic than if doll houses, dust
bunnies, or ladies' undergarments set him off. A little of the old Hollywood pseudo-sophistication. :smiley_oneglass:
Every man has a right to an umbrella.~Dostoyevsky
Post Reply