John Ford

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moira finnie
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Re: John Ford

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movieman1957 wrote:I am not quite sure the rural poverty had anything to do with your outlook. They are all, in that family, presented as stupid, lazy, sloppy, and in anyway imaginable, useless people. They hardly have anything to redeem themselves. They wonder why their children never come to visit. Lord knows when the last time they went to the creek to clean up. (Jeeter does throw some water and let it land on his head.)

Having just been through his opus with the Joad family and all the things they did to try and make a better life for the family it is odd that he would find one so resigned to their own poverty. Even when given a reprieve it is obvious at the last scene they will squander that as well.
Oh, I think that the acceptance of rural poverty and all the indignities that went with it that I witnessed as a kid affected my appreciation for this film. Just to give you some sense of how it was in the small village where my father and his brother had a produce brokerage serving all the big cities, I'll cite a few examples to illustrate how it was. On two occasions, he discovered employees and their families living in a hole in the ground with a sheet of plywood over it for protection. This was in the Fall. The children were not in school, in part because they had no proper shoes or clothes to wear. He had to persuade the parents to move into a more permanent shelter he found for them and send their kids to school. One of the workers voiced a common belief--that it was a "waste of time" to educate the girls, since they were just going to get married and the boys were needed to help in the fields. Other families of seasonal workers asked my mother to shop for groceries for them, since the wives were too ashamed to go to town in their ragged clothes and there were markets where prices changed when migrant workers appeared. When my Dad found some decent little shacks, had them refurbished with running water and had his men and their families live there, he was threatened with fire bombings, (there were two suspicious fires at his warehouse around the same time.) When he used to encourage men to borrow his company's trucks on weekends to do some errands for their families, a late night phone call usually came, notifying him that "One of your n******* has just been picked up after stealing your truck." This was not in the rural South, but upstate New York in the early '60s. My father and mother did what they could as individuals and through some of the few charities that existed at the time to help, and never believed that anyone would want to live like the people in Tobacco Road, but might do so out of ignorance, disease or inbreeding, all of which flourished in this unhealthy setting.

It also makes the brilliant but heartbreaking The Grapes of Wrath even harder to see or to read. It wasn't "just a movie", unfortunately.
movieman1957 wrote:Haven't seen "The Sun Shines Bright." Not that you asked but I saw "When Willie Comes Marching Home" and that is ok but nothing to write home about.
I saw Willie Comes Marching Home too and thought it terribly old fashioned and lifeless in many ways. I don't think that Ford really was involved in the story or characters as he usually was in his better films. Perhaps it might have seemed a better movie if a Preston Sturges had tackled it, though he already made that one in Hail the Conquering Hero (1944).
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Re: John Ford

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Moira, I'm speechless. I had no idea your family went through something like that. How awful for those poor workers. Thank goodness your dad and mom were there to help those poor souls, and that no one in your family was hurt. My mother had some similar situations when we lived near Chicago (nothing like people living in a hole, though). She was a speech teacher in a large school system, covering a lot of different neighborhoods, including inner city ones.

Some of the stories would break your heart. She did all she could to help those families who were in dire need, but many times they would not accept outward help. I do know that many times she would manage to get them food and necessities without their knowledge. We dealt with some poverty and some racism, but not hate crimes that I know of.

The Grapes of Wrath moves me so much because of my mother, who taught me all about tolerance.
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Re: John Ford

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Moira:

You come from good people. I apologize for the way my statement came across.
Chris

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Re: John Ford

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movieman1957 wrote:Moira:

You come from good people. I apologize for the way my statement came across.
Oh, there was absolutely nothing wrong in the least with what you said, Chris! I just realized after reading your interesting and correct comments about the behavior of the characters in Tobacco Road that those old days might have affected my "enjoyment" of that movie and felt an impulse to explain why I might feel that way. Sometimes I write stuff just because it helps me figure out why I have reacted as I have to things. One of several pleasures of the chance to discuss stuff is that some experiences start to make more sense after another person has shared their insight into the same material.
JackFavell wrote:Moira, I'm speechless. I had no idea your family went through something like that. How awful for those poor workers. Thank goodness your dad and mom were there to help those poor souls, and that no one in your family was hurt. My mother had some similar situations when we lived near Chicago (nothing like people living in a hole, though). She was a speech teacher in a large school system, covering a lot of different neighborhoods, including inner city ones.

Some of the stories would break your heart. She did all she could to help those families who were in dire need, but many times they would not accept outward help. I do know that many times she would manage to get them food and necessities without their knowledge. We dealt with some poverty and some racism, but not hate crimes that I know of.

The Grapes of Wrath moves me so much because of my mother, who taught me all about tolerance.
Your Mom sounds like a great lady! I think that we both were lucky to have these caring adults as examples in our childhood. Not surprisingly, I suppose, once my father went back to being a lawyer for the government after realizing what a crap shoot anything to do with farming can be, he worked exclusively in health and human services issues. Mom became a writer for the Red Cross, the national PTA, and the NAACP as well as for various candidates whose commitment to shining a light on rural poverty meant a lot to her. The older I get, the more I appreciate my parents and realize how lucky I was to have known them. It's not that I wasn't keenly aware of their flaws. Childhood and adolescence seems to often entitle us to be junior hanging judges of our loved ones anyway, but it's funny how those adults who once seemed kind of square, smartened up and may have even gotten more admirable with time, huh?
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Re: John Ford

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it's funny how those adults who once seemed kind of square, smartened up and may have even gotten more admirable with time, huh?
Too true, too true...

Too bad Tobacco Road didn't get better with time... :)
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Re: John Ford

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Has anyone seen The World Moves On (1934) with Madeleine Carroll and Franchot Tone? The strange thing is I think I saw the French movie Wooden Crosses (1931) once in college. Apparently much of the footage from that flick was edited into this one hundred year saga of a family. Any opinions about this rarely seen Ford movie?

I have a weakness for Madeleine Carroll movies, even when she acted as though she was slumming, (which was often). I guess early exposure to The General Died at Dawn and The Prisoner of Zenda did it to me.
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Re: John Ford

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Image

I've seen The World Moves On and I liked it very much. It's among my favorite little known Ford movies. It does have some of his personal touches in the framing of certain shots and the humanistic, anti-war tone, though the material feels more like a studio "epic" of sorts. I didn't notice any footage that felt extraneous so I'm curious where the '31 shots could have come in.

Among the best scenes are the battlefield sequences, and they are pure Ford.

Madeleine is at the peak of her beauty and has a really good scene when she gives an impassioned anti-war speech.

Image

Ford lavishes quite a few beautiful close-ups on her, so her fans won't be disappointed---her character really is what pulls the whole thing together.
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Re: John Ford

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Moira -

Oh I adore Madeleine Carroll... She is lovely and I think she is quite a good actress. Beautiful pics!

Miss Goddess is the one to ask about any Fordies, especially the pre-code era ones. I have not seen very many at all. I've seen the Will Rogers ones, and I just recorded Arrowsmith, but that is about the extent of my knowledge, and it is due to her descriptions that I even rented the Rogers/Ford films in the first place. I am trying to catch up, but I know I'll never have the knowledge she has.

MM - For the longest time, I confused The Sun Shines Bright with The Sun Comes Up, which was awful when I saw it even at fourteen. I stayed away from it for years. I am embarrassed to admit that I still got these two movies mixed up until this last year.... so I never had any interest in either of them at all. My bad.
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Re: John Ford

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Wow! Those glimpses of The World Moves On are gorgeous. I just moved that one to the top of my Netflix queue. Oy, I must have four hundred movies to see in the next few years, but that one looked and sounded too good to miss. Thanks so much for the screen caps and the heads up, Miss G.

I like some of Ford's films from that period of his career very much. The Lost Patrol and Pilgrimage are my faves since they are all about survival, spiritually and physically. I've read good things about Air Mail (1932) but suspect that may be quite hard to see, since it is one of those Universal movies that never seems to see the light of day.
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Re: John Ford

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The past and how it affects the future is very much a part of The World Moves On. I look forward to hearing what you think of it, Moira.

As for The Sun Shines Bright, I am even more fond of that one the more I see it. It's one of Ford's most extremely personal movies, touching as it does on racism, social prejudice, the past, the Civil War and he manages to successfully combine nostalgia with a realistic sense of the ossification clinging to past traditions can cause.

Oh, and Charles Winninger never had a better role in his life.

It's a very "small" film, the very opposite of The World Moves On.

I highly recommend Air Mail, too, especially if you can watch it followed by Ceiling Zero, Hawks' remake. Both films are exciting, tight and taut but contrast nicely in terms of directorial focus. I happily have a copy of Air Mail thanks to a good pal and I have the Region 2 DVD of Ceiling Zero, from France. It's a shame these two films aren't available Stateside.
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Re: John Ford

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I watched "Arrowsmith" and enjoyed about 90% of it. It's a fine story of a doctor who gives up research for a life as a country doctor to be with the woman he loves. Though he does this he still has research in his blood and he soon takes that up with his mentor. He finally is called upon to help treat a plague in the West Indies.

Colman and Hayes are wonderful together. Myrna Loy is here but she is not much more than a cameo. Outside of Colman's charm there is very little that could be considered comedy but it does have some light moments. It also has some deep sadness too. Ford seems to have a great deal to say over the obvious. I kept thinking doors play a large part in this movie. Whether it is coming through them or the stature they give (a name on them) or Hayes' use of them to separate her by refusing to leave or by shutting them from the poor souls afflicted in the tropics.

Some early appearances by Ford members Ward Bond and John Qualen are nice to see. Some of the scenes in the West Indies drag a little but mostly it is a good story of a man doing what he can.

One scene that caught my attention was when Colman shows up in his New York office he stops to deliver a heartfelt prayer that everything he might do there is all for the right reasons. I thought that an unusual step for any movie regardless of its time. It was a nice touch.
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Re: John Ford

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Hi Chris!

SPOILER AHEAD!!!


Arrowsmith is high on my list of slightly lesser known Ford movies, mainly because I think it does a good job of showing the cost to himself and others a man forfeits when he follows his truth. By "his truth" I mean whatever is the main drive or purpose of that person's life. Many Ford films show this. The truth or drive may noble or ignoble, but it always comes at dear cost. Colman is excellent at depicting anguish and his scene when he goes to his wife's closet and clutches at her clothes is one of the most moving expressions of grief I've ever seen.

I actually think better of the scenes in the island than the U.S., maybe because they really have a scary, spooky aura like in I Walk With A Zombie or some other "voodoo gothic" film.

From what I recall (it's been ages since I read Arrowsmith) It departs from Sinclair Lewis' novel mostly in terms of criticism of the medical establishment (this is less of a focus in the movie), the ending (I seem to remember the novel ending much more on a downbeat note; Ford chose to express his personal beliefs about the past being "alive" in the present) but the idealistic yet myopic title character is brilliantly realized by Colman and the cinemtography and relationship between Arrowsmith and his bride are worth watching.

By the way, doctors (and nurses) always had a rather special appeal for Ford in his films. They are generally depicted favorably, if flawed.
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Re: John Ford

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Hi April:

I was hoping you'd join in. The one thing I'll say about the island scenes is they certainly seemed atmospheric enough. Darkness, death, heavy rain. Certainly different than NY. Maybe the location and story change just caught me off guard. I did think Helen's scenes in the island house by herself were quite good.

You mentioned the scene in the closet. I thought that was particularly touching and unusual. It said so much without saying anything. He truly missed her.
Chris

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Re: John Ford

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movieman1957 wrote:You mentioned the scene in the closet. I thought that was particularly touching and unusual. It said so much without saying anything. He truly missed her.


I think he also felt partly responsible. Had he been there, he could have saved her. His own wife died alone, a victim of the very disease he was so obsessed with preventing and that had to have torn him apart.
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Re: John Ford

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You guys in L.A. are so fortunate, there's a Ford film retrospective coming up in Santa Monica:

http://losangeles.going.com/event-70661 ... LE_FEATURE#
"There's only one thing that can kill the movies, and that's education."
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