The Forsyte Saga/Forsyte Woman/N. Voyeger

[stuart.uk]

Spoiler Alert

Like many movies of the time That Forsyte Woman only told part of novel, dealing with love affair between the married Irene, as played by Greer Grason and Robert Young's Phillip. Also cast were Errol Flynn as Irene's husband Soames, Janet Leigh as Phillips girl-friend June and Walter Pidgeon as her father and Irene's future husband Joe. With the success of two tv versions of the novel, one wonders why a sequel of the movie was never made, when we deal with the ill-fated love story between Soames daughter Fluer and Irene's son Jon. Who would you cast. Would it be a Brit couple, or would you pick like the rest of the cast two Hollywood stars. Imaging the film to be made in the 50s, I'm thinking Sylvia Syms as Fluer and Roger Moore as Jon

In the 60s tv series, a huge global success, Eric Porter was Soames, Nyreen Dawn Porter as Irene, June Barry as June and film star Kenneth More as young Joe. I can't remember who played Phillip, but I don't think he had the same screen persona as Ioan Gruffudd (Amazing Grace). Susan Hampshire was Fluer and Martin Jarvis Jon.

Though the 60s version was the greater success, I think the 2003 may have been even better. Damian Lewis played Soames, Rupert Graves Joe and Gina McKee Irene It also had personal fav Barbara Flynn as Soames' mother.

It's a while since I've seen the 60s version, but I seem to remember June Barry played June as the story progressed, as a middle-aged spinster, unlike the talented Gillian Kearney who played her at the same age, as a modern 1920's style successful business woman with a bobbed haircut who rode a motercycle. I enjoyed watching the relationship with June and her brother Jon in the 2003 version, given the fact she was old enough to be his mother. Also I liked the in the latter stages of the show that June and Irene, despite past difficulties, became really close.

I was also thinking if Now Voyeger had been a mini series, more could have been made of Bette Davis' Charlotte's relationships with her much older brothers, which is pratically non-existant in the movie. Mind you her relationship with her mother, sister and neice is great in the movie. Doing some research I discovered in reality Glady's Cooper was in fact to young to play Charlotte's mother, given she gave birth to her in middle age. That said Glady's was wonderful as the elderly Boston Mrs. Vale.

[mrsl]

If I had known the movie was based on a book when I first saw it, I would have read it. Anything with Greer is a favorite of mine, and The Forsyte Saga is definitely one. I think however, the TV relegated it to a mini-series on the PBS station for several months. I don't believe it was ever a regular hourly series. I could be wrong, because I was working nights at the time. I love stories about generations in families and might try to find it at my local book store.

Oddly when I gave my impression of Now Voyager, it was one of the few times I didn't raise hackles on members necks although my opinion of Jerry (Paul Henreid) was completely contrary to what everybody else thought of him. I guess for once I used the right words to express my opinion of him without sounding snide or nasty as I am wont to do now and then. There again, Stuart, you have the best of me, I was not aware that 'poor Charlotte' had older brothers - I don't believe they are even referenced in the movie.

[knitwit45]

Anne, don't you remember when Charlotte comes home from her trip? She has a confrontation with her mother, and then goes downstairs and greets her older brothers and their wives, and has a fire started in the never before used fireplace. When the guests leave, one of the sisters-in-law even asks her to play bridge with her group.
I found the book on Ebay, it is quite old, very fragile, (a paperback) and I've read it only once

[mrsl]

knitwit:

Yes, I do remember, but with all the times I've watched it, I always thought of them all as uncles and aunts. Unless maybe it's because I haven't seen the movie in about a year. But I do recall thinking her mother was much older than her brothers and sisters, now I know why -- they were her kids.

[charliechaplinfan]

I thought they were her aunts too. I like Now Voyager, I first watched it when I was in my teens and I found it a powerful story, it's one of my favorite Bette davis movies.

I've only ever seen the recent version of The Forsyte Saga, it was very well cast. I don't know if it's just me because I like Damian Lewis in almost everything he does but I didn't have as much sympathy with Irene in this version as I did when I read the book. I wolud love to see Errol Flynn as Soames.

[silentscreen]

Regarding Now, Voyager, was Charlottes' doctor (Claude Rains) married? If you ask me, he suited her much better than spineless Jerry. If they made a sequel, they could explore the possibility of a relationship between he and Charlotte.

[knitwit45]

I don't believe he was, and I think there was a "bit" of an undercurrent there, but it was more about him caring for her as a human being who needed care than about attraction between a man and a woman. You have to put the time and place in perspective when thinking of Jerry. He was a man who was honoring his commitment to a woman he had once loved. I think the poor guy was at his wit's end when he met Charlotte, but he never pretended to be anything other than what he was, or made false promises to her.

Today it seems people throw off an unwanted spouse the way they throw away a used plastic fork, and I'm sure it happened then, also, but not as often perhaps? Back in the dark ages of the 50's, when I was in grade school, there was one little boy whose parents had divorced, and the kids whispered about it. Not because it was "shameful", but because it was hurtful, and no one wanted to add to his hurt, but it was so unheard of in our little world, that everyone whispered.

When my eldest son was in grade school in the 80's, he took a poll of 10 kids in his "pod" (remember the 80's?) and SEVEN of the 10 kids were in fractured families. I asked his teacher about it, and she said Parents night was a confusing maze of parents, steps, life partners and significant others.

To all of you who are in lifetime commitments, I sincerely salute you, especially the Jerry's and Charlottes who have chosen to stay strong and stay put.

[silentscreen]

You've made some excellent points, and I too respect those who stay in relationships despite all the challenges. I was just mulling over the possibilities. Actually a lot of Charlotte and Jerry's relationship was tied up in Tina who was the child Charlotte would never have. If she became romatically involved with the doctor, it would throw a curve ball at something that had become very important to her. I think she went on to a full life of service to others and happily half mothering Tina. She had a relationship with the good doctor on a professional and friendship level already. She was going to be heavily involved in running the institution with him.

[JackFavell]

I must be crazy, because I love Now, Voyager, and love Paul Henreid as Jerry, the only man to really see Charlotte and love her for what she was INSIDE. I have never thought of Dr. Jacquith as a love interest.

I also think the 1960's Forsyte Saga was the best thing ever produced on television, maybe with the exception of June Barry, who was a little annoying. I did watch the first half of the newer version, and thought it rather trite, but have to admit that Damian Lewis was incredibly good as Soames. But he is an amazing actor, and deserves to have many tv shows created around him.

Phillip Bossinney was played by John Bennett , and I think your description of him as a sort of Iaon Gruffuyd type is a very good one, I think he had a bit of Douglas Fairbanks, Jr. to him as well. I don't remember him doing anything else. My favorites on the show were Eric Porter as Soames, who took you from despising him to actually caring about him, Susan Hampshire as Fleur, and Lana Morris as Helene Hillmer, the woman Young Jolyon throws away his future for. It is a joy to watch the older actors who play all the aunts and uncles in the series, they are lovely.

I am having hard time imagining whom I would cast as Fleur, Jon, and Michael Mont. I have to give it some more thought.

[knitwit45]

I think she went on to a full life of service to others and happily half mothering Tina. She had a relationship with the good doctor on a professional and friendship level already. She was going to be heavily involved in running the institution with him.

Are we related????? I think the exact same thing! And isn't it amazing that those of us who love this story add on all kinds of fantasy extensions?

[mrsl]

Back to Now Voyager for just a minute. Silent screen I was so happy to see you refer to Jerry as 'spineless'. When I said that, nobody could believe what I was spouting. All they saw about Jerry was his romantic figure until I pointed out what a true cad he was, first with his wife, then Charlotte, and at the end, with Tina. He would have left his so-called 'beloved' daughter to live with Charlotte and broke her little heart.
.

[JackFavell]

mrsl -

I do know what you are saying - and I did have some reservations for some time with Jerry's behavior. But this last time, I just fell for it - no bad feelings on my part anymore. I buy Jerry's behavior. I think Charlotte will bring Jerry and Tina closer.

[charliechaplinfan]

I buy Jerry's behaviour too, I don't see it as spineless.

As for parents evening, my hubby is a teacher, he's known kids go through high school (5 years)and change name three or four times and it's a Catholic school. It's not so much that families are fractured but that step parents flow in and out of lives quite freely.

What I get from Now Voyager isn't as much the romance angle but the fact Charlotte is empowered by getting away from her family and reborn as a confident woman, who has undergone a makeover. We can all have a day when we think we look like something the cat dragged in but give us half an hour to make ourself nice and we can all be a bit glamourous.

[silentscreen]

I think she went on to a full life of service to others and happily half mothering Tina. She had a relationship with the good doctor on a professional and friendship level already. She was going to be heavily involved in running the institution with him.

Are we related????? I think the exact same thing! And isn't it amazing that those of us who love this story add on all kinds of fantasy extensions?

Yes, there are so many ways that the story could end up, but Charlotte was truly a giving person, and she at least got to have a romance with Jerry and be engaged for a short time to a "catch." I just felt like she was a much stronger person than Jerry (Maybe weak is a better term than spineless, but compared to her, he hadn't developed the same back bone.) And I didn't neccessarily think he was good husband material for her any way. I think it ended exactly as it should have, but a sequel would be great! I would love to see Tina grow up, and see what Charlotte was up to in the ensuing years. I see her and Jerry ending as dear friends. It was headed that way any way. I think her relationship with the doctor and her work would be more fullfilling. That, and her part in mentoring Tina.