Pygmalion and My Fair Lady

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charliechaplinfan
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Pygmalion and My Fair Lady

Post by charliechaplinfan »

We started a discussion on the general thread about each film. I hadn't seen Pygmalion before today. Here are some of the comments
JackFavell wrote: I have never liked My Fair Lady at all, having been charmed by Pygmalion as an impressionable 14 year old.... I remember watching it on the Public Television station when we lived near Chicago (they showed all kinds of wonderful movies there - all the Criterion releases, etc.) with wide eyes. It immediately became my favorite - it has remained in my top 3 or 4 movies ever since.
intothenitrate wrote:I saw My Fair Lady when I was very young, so young that I couldn't filter anything and just got completely caught up in the story. Watching it years later, I was surprised at how many little details were firmly etched in my memory. In particular, when Eliza was hurt or distressed during the ups and downs of her relationship with Higgins, those moments registered as big tragedies in my little brain. Maybe I was just an overly sensitive child, but it seems like I lived a week's worth of story in the space of a two-hour film.

When I watched Pygmalion a few months ago, I couldn't help but compare it against my unusually vivid memory of MFL. In the scenes, for example, when Eliza ad libs a few personal stories--using her own native constructions but with perfect diction--I would think, "That was OK, but Hepburn knocked that one out of the park." And in other places too, when Eliza needs to show vulnerability, or when she needs to muster courage, Hepburn seems to dig a little deeper in her portrayal. [Harrison also, I think, conjured up more imperious menace than Howard's bookish pestering].

Seeing My Fair Lady at such an early age, when I would have felt perhaps less presentable, less articulate and mannered, I must have experienced that same vicarious 'hook' that Asimov described.

So, long story short, I'd vote for My Fair Lady for bringing home the emotional impact, though I admit I saw it when I was quite defenseless against cinematic story-telling.
feaito wrote:Thanks for sharing that interesting insight on MFL, intothenitrate, and about watching a film as a boy. I plan to revisit the film again, but as far as Audrey Hepburn's characterization goes I'd agree with you that she did a great job, but the film as a whole is not the same as it used to be -for me- when I watched it again in my early '30s, compared with what I perceived as a kid and in my teens; because it really used to be a huge favorite of mine.
Ann Harding wrote:Well, it's funny, Intothenitrate, I feel quite the opposite. I discovered the Pygmalion story through My Fair Lady about 20 years ago. But, when I saw the Asquith picture recently, I was totally won over. I felt Leslie Howard gave far more subtlety to his Higgins than the grand (and terribly efficient) acting of Rex Harrison. As for Audrey Hepburn, I must admit I never quite believed that she could be a cockney girl. She looks like a posh girl dressed as a cockney girl, that's all. I guess it's perhaps unfair to compare a comedy to a musical. But, the main problem with the Cukor picture is that it's quite 'inflated' as if Jack Warner wanted everything bigger and larger. Nowadays, I feel more at home with the small scale B&W delight of Asquith.
JackFavell wrote:I'm totally with AnnHarding,

I agree on every point. I can't think of anyone else but Howard and Hiller as Higgins and Eliza. Again, though, I think they struck me as far more "real" at my impressionable age than Harrison and Hepburn who seemed like they were "acting" it - though I do feel that Audrey really immersed herself into the part. It's just that I don't think letting us see that you feel the role so strongly is a benefit here. I prefer the quiet emotion of Hiller.
Failure is unimportant. It takes courage to make a fool of yourself - Charlie Chaplin
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charliechaplinfan
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Re: Pygmalion and My Fair Lady

Post by charliechaplinfan »

Well, I watched Pygmalion this morning, I was completely enraptured by it, I've loved My fair Lady for the longest time and I felt that the two movies had distinct differences enough to make the two movies not an either or option but a musical versus a drama. I think it's Leslie Howard's finest role, never have his talents been better used, I've always thought he was better suited to English films than Hollywood ones. I like both Higgins but did Shaw write about Higgins as Howard plays him or as Rex Harrison plays him, I think the former is more likely. The biggest difference for me is the expansion to the story Pygmalion gives, it allows us more dialogue and in turn more of a backstory into the live of Eliza and gives Higgins a more rounded personality, Howard's is a gentler more bookish and professorish Higgins, still a confirmed old bachelor, Harrison's is a far more prickly customer, I honestly don't think Howard intends to cause hurt in what he says and does but I've always thought that Harrison did but had to bend because of his need for Eliza. Freddy Insford Hill isn't as big a role in Pygmalion, that's a relief to be honest. Wendy Hiller, someone who should be better known in the halls of English film, her Eliza is different to Audrey's, she's more aware, surer of herself, great at the comedy, I'd much rather have the drawing room to Ascot, it's so funny.

The conclusion is Pygmalion is concise, not a moment is spared or stretched or overdone, a delight and understated bit of British cinema, much better than I'd expected it. My Fair Lady will be a film that I'll find impossible to turn off when on, dazzled by Audrey and Rex Harrison and the costumes although at times it can seem overlong.
Failure is unimportant. It takes courage to make a fool of yourself - Charlie Chaplin
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JackFavell
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Re: Pygmalion and My Fair Lady

Post by JackFavell »

Oh I am so HAPPY you liked Pygmalion - you pointed out so many of it's strengths. I love the crisp way it's filmed, no excess here. Howard is just absent-minded and stubborn, but not mean-spirited. He's just used to having his own way, since he seems to have been getting it since he sprung from the womb. He really is "all bump and go" and so is the movie. The direction by Asquith and Howard is genius as far as I am concerned.

I can't chat right now, but I'll be back over the weekend to discuss one of my favorite movies. :D

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Re: Pygmalion and My Fair Lady

Post by klondike »

I liked Pygmalion.
I respected Pygmalion.
I committed to Pygmalion.
I admired Pygmalion.
I will always count myself lucky to have seen Pygmalion.
But for all that, I've no desire to ever see it again . . . whereas I feel joyfully compelled to watch My Fair Lady at least once a year, every year.
{And the Gods know I'm no fan of musicals, to say the least!}
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knitwit45
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Re: Pygmalion and My Fair Lady

Post by knitwit45 »

I recorded this for 'Nando, and sat down and watched it just now. It seems a pale comparison to MFL, although I do think the latter is much too long. The story is more vibrant, the characters more interesting, you could cut all the musical numbers out, and it would still be a better picture. Ok, start shi-ing those slippers. :lol:
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charliechaplinfan
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Re: Pygmalion and My Fair Lady

Post by charliechaplinfan »

When Audrey Hepburn plays a role, she's so appealing, it's very difficult to watch anyone else in the role. I've always wondered what MFL would have been like made with Julie Andrews, I've always thought Audrey pretty perfect as Eliza to Harrison's Higgins.

Pygmalion's characters share some of the same words but the characters are not the same. The musical has it's own twist on the characters, made possibly to suit the lyrics more but I think Harrison's Higgin's is more exaggerated than that of Howard's because part of the dialogue is missing from the musical version. In Pygmalion it's built up over many layers, like when Eliza leaves after the ball, in I love the song that Audrey sings to pop Higgin's balloon and his 'I've Grown Accustomed to Her Face' but in Pygmalion there is plenty of toing and froing of words and tension as she becomes a lady and as he realises his dependence upon her and is forced to admit to some of it.

I'll remain a fan of both films and often listen to the soundtrack of MFL.
Failure is unimportant. It takes courage to make a fool of yourself - Charlie Chaplin
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Rita Hayworth
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Re: Pygmalion and My Fair Lady

Post by Rita Hayworth »

Today, I just watched on TCM, the restoration of My Fair Lady.

When, I was in my mid 20's I watched this movie - I didn't quite cared for it; because I thought it was kind of silly.
When, I was in my mid 30's I watched this movie - I starting to see the charm of Rex Harrison's as Professor Higgins to be witty and delightful; but I still thinks it a little bit silly; and I didn't realized how attractive Audrey Hepburn really is. She was fabulous at Eliza.
When, I was in my mid 40's I watched this movie - and I can't get enough of this - I find this movie more charming than ever.
Now, in my early 50's and seeing the restoration of My Fair Lady; its has the grandeur of its own. I love it now, better than ever.

Note: I started watching more and more Audrey's movies - and she is a very lovely, has great elegance, and most importantly she commands an aura that I just can't quite put a finger on. Started watching her - starting with Breakfast at Tiffany's ... I love her pretty eyes and delicate features.

To me, the older we get the more and more we appreciate these movies ... I often check ALL movies channels to see what movies are playing today and make an effort to see them once again. Rex Harrison did a masterful job in this movie. I had a treat seeing After the Thin Man and My Fair Lady on Turner Classic Movies.
RedRiver
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Re: Pygmalion and My Fair Lady

Post by RedRiver »

My feelings on this are scattered. MFL is my favorite musical play. The movie doesn't work all that well. It's not bad. But where's the thrill, the inspiration that is MY FAIR LADY? The film seems to go through the motions, albeit the motions of a magnificent piece of theatre.

PYGMALION is also a play, of course. This film is a more serious treatment. More focus on character and story. The movie benefits mightily from the presence of the astonishing Wendy Hiller. This superb player, one of the best I've seen, brings Eliza to life in deep and sensitive ways, just as she does Shaw's MAJOR BARBARA. It's Hiller's movie to make or break. She makes it with room to spare

Mr. Howard lacked that level of talent. I don't believe him as Ashley Wilkes. Don't believe him in PETRIFIED FOREST. His snivelling mama's boy in OF HUMAN BONDAGE simply annoys me. Howard's Higgins may be his best effort. But it's not enough.

Rex Harrison's interpretation is more entertaining. His sense of rhythm, as he "talks" the fabulous Lerner and Lowe numbers, is sensational. His energy level right on target. Hepburn is no Wendy Hiller. But she was the most majestically lovely human being of her generation. Watching her in anything is joy.

I'll side with the PYGMALION fans in the better movie debate. It's more mature, more literate. Both films have assets; both have flaws. If only they'd cast Moe Howard instead of Leslie!
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JackFavell
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Re: Pygmalion and My Fair Lady

Post by JackFavell »

Oh man, I think Leslie is an absolutely GREAT Henry Higgins, far more interesting and "in character" than Rex who just seems to be going through the motions. But I agree with you about Hiller.

MFL is something all it's own, it isn't even in the same universe as Pygmalion or MFL the stage musical.
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charliechaplinfan
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Re: Pygmalion and My Fair Lady

Post by charliechaplinfan »

It's good that one story can spawn to very different pieces of entertainment, both very successful, one wonders what Shaw would have thought of Rex Harrison's Higgins or Audrey's or Julie's Eliza.

I'm somewhere between the two of you with Leslie Howard, I think Higgins is his best piece of acting, I really believe in his Higgins but have struggled with some of his other roles, I think it's partly due to the lack of sympathy or empathy in some of his more famous roles, that reminds me I need to watch The Petrified Forest.
Failure is unimportant. It takes courage to make a fool of yourself - Charlie Chaplin
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JackFavell
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Post by JackFavell »

Hi, Alison, it's great to have you back! We missed you terribly!


Apparently, Rex Harrison once wisecracked to writer Earl Wilson, in response to the statement that he played Henry Higgins:

"Actually, my dear fellow, I play Leslie [Howard] doing Higgins."

:D
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charliechaplinfan
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Re: Pygmalion and My Fair Lady

Post by charliechaplinfan »

I missed you guys too. Occasionally hubby books somewhere with an internet connection but it's a double edged sword. It's great to contact you guys and leave posts, the downside are the emails that still come through and the reminders of home, so although I grouse at not having it, to without a connection for 2 weeks a year isn't so terrible.

Love the quote from Rex Harrison :D
Failure is unimportant. It takes courage to make a fool of yourself - Charlie Chaplin
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