Ace in the Hole (aka - The Big Carnival )

[ken123]

With the recent Utah mine tragedy, still in the news, would anyone like to discuss the Billy Wilder classic " Ace in the Hole ". IMHO the Utah mine owner, Murray, is someone who should be behind bars. No Government regulation is the problem. Government by corporation don't you love it !

[MikeBSG]

I've been thinking of "Ace in the Hole" all week. It is odd when life follows art. I suppose the best example of that is when some guy published a novel "Futility" around 1900 in which a big ocean liner is sunk by an iceberg.

I was watching CNN the other night, and all they did was show helicopters and ambulances going to the disaster site. They never said in the seven minutes I watched why they were going there or what they hoped to accomplish. if this is news reporting today (were they hoping to get pictures of helicopters crashing into each other?) who needs it?

[ken123]

Jan is one of the coldest wives in film history.

[jdb1]

I am ever so remiss, friends, and I freely admit it. I have never seen this movie in its entirety. The trouble is I have a very low tolerance quota for Kirk Douglas, and too much of him in one year has very adverse effects on me. (Same goes for Michael Douglas.) Some day, when there is not another single Doulgas movie showing anywhere for a year or so, I'll be able to manage Ace in the Hole. I've already seen two or three Douglas movies in the last six months or so, and I'm afraid that may be it for this year.

It's a real problem: I think he's a fine actor, but I can barely stand him. What a strange dilemma.

[JackFavell]

jdb-

you and I are on the same page, though I can stand Douglas just a little better than you. I can't get through most Douglas films unless there is another really strong reason for me to watch... like Billy Wilder, or Gloria Grahame. Somehow, I do better with Kirk Douglas as a rotten phony. Michael I cannot bear at all.

That being said, I absolutely love Ace in the Hole.... it's a super film and Kirk is very good.

One of the very best things, in my opinion, is the fact that long time veteran actor Porter Hall gets a really good role to sink his teeth into. He's wonderful.

Jan Sterling is also stunning (in more ways than one) as the trapped miner's wife.

Anyway, I waited a long time to see it, for the aforementioned reasons, but I'm glad I finally sat down and watched it. The story is so good, you almost forget it's Kirk.

[mrsl]

.
And I make three . . . my aversion is to both Father and son also, but Father more so than son but only by a smidgeon. This movie is truly, as Jack says, more than enough to make you forget you are stuck watching Kirk, probably because Jan Sterling is so heartless, she kind of eliminates some of your dislike of Kirk. She portrays your original heartless b...h. I know the moderators don't like that but, I can't think of any other way to express her performance. So please forgive me.
.

[JackFavell]

Anne - you crack me up! I spent ten minutes trying to come with another word for the kind of character I prefer Kirk as..... I came up with phony, but that wasn't really what I meant...

[ken123]

Michael Douglass is an actor I find arrogant & smug.

[moira finnie]

I sometimes find Kirk Douglas laughably over the top during his glory years, but I have to speak up in his favor in this thread and give this guy his due. Douglas, particularly in this early part of his career, before his screen image solidified into a larger than life mold, deserves some recognition. In Champion, The Strange Love of Martha Ivers, A Letter to Three Wives, Ace in the Hole, The Juggler, Act of Love, and Detective Story he had an incredibly fearless approach to his roles.

He could portray deeply flawed men in a raw way that was quite new in American film and only came to fruition in the acting of Marlon Brando, who blended the poetic and brutal in his characters in a much more compelling way--but that doesn't mean that Douglas was doing a bad job. Granted, a good director with a strong rein on his mannerisms was always better for this actor---think Stanley Kubrick in Paths of Glory. But, there was something alive emotionally as well as physically in his work in this early stage of his career and flashes of this quality that came through later in a few of his performances such as his work in Spartacus, We Were Strangers, and Lonely Are the Brave.

If only Douglas hadn't become his own producer! I think he never had the check on his egotism after that step and, for the most part, became a prisoner of his own goofy image. Speaking of which, have you guys seen this?
[youtube][/youtube]

[JackFavell]

Oh my gosh, Moira, I LOVE that cartoon! I have seen it before, but there's always room for another viewing! That one just cracks me up, every time.

I should have remembered that I recently watched Seven Days in May and actually LIKED Douglas as a nice guy caught up in military intrigue.....that's a first. He was so completely un-Douglas like - quiet and thoughtful throughout the entire film. John Frankenheimer really reigned him in here and his acting was very good. I didn't have that instinctive pull back I usually feel when starting a "Kirk Douglas" picture, and of course, there was Burt to look at. And the early films you mentioned are ones I mostly can deal with (A Letter to Three Wives would be my favorite, I like his ivory towered rather snooty English teacher a lot), because the mannerisms are not apparent and he is playing second lead instead of that crazy vein popping, neck stretching nut.

I never have been able to get through Lonely Are the Brave, though it is a story I should like a lot.

[moira finnie]

I've seen that little movie several times too, and always get the giggles when I hear Frank Gorshin's take on the Kirk voice in that brief stop action cartoon, JF. That line "What a rotten, stinkin' world..." is just hilarious. The massive head proportion to the body is also perfection!

I also like Kirk's work in his supporting roles, (Seven Days in May seems more like an ensemble, rather than a Kirk Douglas pic), but didn't feel that he was snooty as the English teacher in "Letter"--he seemed to be a man who was just proud to be a teacher, and refusing to take any guff from pompous people who were constantly judging his virility because he didn't have money or power. (Very typical of Mankiewicz, btw, who was always inserting a word or two about a teacher's lot in our superficial society, since his father was one).

Those were the very rare parts for him, and he really didn't seem to do comedy well normally (see My Dear Secretary or For Love or Money for some really awful examples). I guess he incorporated a bit of humor into his films, though not much. Maybe he was funny in Letter because of the writer-director he was working with and because it was so early in his film career.

In thinking about his other prominent supporting role in his early years, even in his weakling role in Martha Ivers, the Kirkster played the part of Barbara Stanwyck's milquetoast hubby flat out--as the doormat to end all doormats. I can just hear his inner dialogue as he created the character, who clearly thinks he is the center of the story!

[ChiO]

The key to ACE IN THE HOLE (1951) is, as we all know, the uncredited appearance...and the very first screen appearance...of one Timothy Carey.

Six years later, Mr. Douglas was again lucky enough to work with his rival for teeth-baring gut-wrenching acting on PATHS OF GLORY (1957). Carey drove Douglas nuts. Kubrick, who loved using Carey in THE KILLING (1956) and PATHS OF GLORY, wanted to add Carey to the cast of SPARTACUS (1960) when he took over the direction from Anthony Mann. Star-producer Douglas forbade it.

Maybe it was an Upstate New York vs. Brooklyn thing.

[JackFavell]

Moira -

the duelling chins and the fact that Kirk plays all the roles is what kills me every time - The Ace in the Hole Kirk against the Seven days in May Kirk, and finally the Bad and the Beautiful Kirk coming in at the end with that sarcastic gleam in his eye...

Frank Gorshin was a genius as far as I'm concerned. The best impersonator, I think.

I guess snooty was the wrong word to describe his character in Letter to Three Wives.... proud might be a better choice. And I did love his ability to play someone who is all about the arts and literature - someone for whom words are everything. That scene at the dinner party really impressed me, I never thought of Kirk as an intellectual or even as having a brain, but he really did an excellent job.

ChiO - Maybe if Timothy Carey was in Spartacus, I could get through it better... I've never been able to watch it.

[moira finnie]

I guess snooty was the wrong word to describe his character in Letter to Three Wives.... proud might be a better choice. And I did love his ability to play someone who is all about the arts and literature - someone for whom words are everything. That scene at the dinner party really impressed me, I never thought of Kirk as an intellectual or even as having a brain, but he really did an excellent job.

ChiO - Maybe if Timothy Carey was in Spartacus, I could get through it better... I've never been able to watch it.

Dang, JF. Next thing you're going to tell me you don't love The Vikings (1957) or you haven't been able to watch more than a few scenes! Here's Kirk coming home from sea at his nutty best:
[youtube][/youtube]

[ChiO]

Maybe if Timothy Carey was in Spartacus, I could get through it better... I've never been able to watch it.

The thought of Olivier, Laughton, Ustinov and Carey in a scene is...well...(I think my head just exploded).