Two Rode Together

User avatar
ChiO
Posts: 3899
Joined: January 2nd, 2008, 1:26 pm
Location: Chicago

Post by ChiO »

mrsl asked:
are there any other western fans that know of fine movies that were totally overlooked due to lack of viewing power?
I know of several fine movies that didn't make the final cut -- PURSUED, SILVER LODE, GREAT DAY IN THE MORNING, FORTY GUNS (for example), but I have no idea whether that's (a) "due to lack of viewing power", or (b) the limit on nominations per person, or (c) the difference between my finely honed exquisite taste and everyone else's poor judgment :P . As we know, the World goes 'round because there's no accounting for taste.

Me, I'd rather watch McCABE AND MRS. MILLER than SHE WORE A YELLOW RIBBON any day of the week (and I generally am not an Altman fan), and I'd rather watch anything by Welles or Von Stroheim than either of those, but they unfortunately didn't make Westerns (rats -- I should've nominated TOUCH OF EVIL and GREED). But I understand that there are some who do not like "things like McCabe and Mrs. Miller" or, I assume, even JOHNNY GUITAR.

Shouldn't we all be appalled that not a single Roy Rogers, Gene Autry or Hopalong Cassidy movie was nominated. :wink:
Everyday people...that's what's wrong with the world. -- Morgan Morgan
I love movies. But don't get me wrong. I hate Hollywood. -- Orson Welles
Movies can only go forward in spite of the motion picture industry. -- Orson Welles
User avatar
ChiO
Posts: 3899
Joined: January 2nd, 2008, 1:26 pm
Location: Chicago

Post by ChiO »

mrsl asked:
are there any other western fans that know of fine movies that were totally overlooked due to lack of viewing power?
I know of several fine movies that didn't make the final cut -- PURSUED, SILVER LODE, GREAT DAY IN THE MORNING, FORTY GUNS (for example), but I have no idea whether that's (a) "due to lack of viewing power", or (b) the limit on nominations per person, or (c) the difference between my finely honed exquisite taste and everyone else's poor judgment :P . As we know, the World goes 'round because there's no accounting for taste.

Me, I'd rather watch McCABE AND MRS. MILLER than SHE WORE A YELLOW RIBBON any day of the week (and I generally am not an Altman fan), and I'd rather watch anything by Welles or Von Stroheim than either of those, but they unfortunately didn't make Westerns (rats -- I should've nominated TOUCH OF EVIL and GREED). But I understand that there are some who do not like "things like McCabe and Mrs. Miller" or, I assume, even JOHNNY GUITAR.

Shouldn't we all be appalled that not a single Roy Rogers, Gene Autry or Hopalong Cassidy movie was nominated. :wink: I feel guilty for not nominating ONE-EYED JACKS and WATERHOLE #3 in honor of my avatar.
Everyday people...that's what's wrong with the world. -- Morgan Morgan
I love movies. But don't get me wrong. I hate Hollywood. -- Orson Welles
Movies can only go forward in spite of the motion picture industry. -- Orson Welles
User avatar
movieman1957
Administrator
Posts: 5522
Joined: April 15th, 2007, 3:50 pm
Location: MD

Post by movieman1957 »

Hi Anne:

I didn't take it that way. I hope people didn't restrict it to TCM viewings.

Chio:

I'm not surprised no Autry or Rogers films made it. While entertaining I don't think they are in the same league, nor were they intended to be.
Chris

"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana."
User avatar
mrsl
Posts: 4200
Joined: April 14th, 2007, 5:20 pm
Location: Chicago SW suburbs

Post by mrsl »

Chris:

A lot of people think they're not western fans for the same reasons they claim to hate C&W music - - they don't want to be associated with hick music - - just as they think all C&W is crying in your beer and 'my baby left me' baloney. So they don't give themselves the chance to watch and maybe enjoy. Most non western fans say they don't like those shoot em ups or the fast draw on Main street, and that's all they thing western movies are about. That's why I very rarely recommend a movie. Sometimes a special one will come around like Support You Local Sheriff which is so funny you forget it's a western, but that is rare.

The point in my blathering here is many people don't give themselves the opportunity to watch westerns. How many times have you seen people write in these threads, "it was a western so I didn't bother"? I've seen it written here and at TCM many times and TCM does not offer many westerns. TCM really only shows the big award winning Ford and Hawkes types of westerns, and very few little Randolph Scott types. So lots of people don't realize there are hundreds and hundreds of western out there waiting to be discovered but never will be because the fact of their existence is not made known.

Anne
Anne


***********************************************************************
* * * * * * * * What is past is prologue. * * * * * * * *

]***********************************************************************
User avatar
Ann Harding
Posts: 1246
Joined: January 11th, 2008, 11:03 am
Location: Paris
Contact:

Post by Ann Harding »

I didn't realise that on your side of pond, Westerns were still looked at this way.... :o
In France, among movielovers, there are considered an extremely worthy movie genre like film noirs, drama or comedies. When I was a child, we used to have (Ah the good old days of French TV in the 70s! 8) ) a western on prime time TV every Tuesday. That's how I got acquainted with the genre. I saw countless classics by Ford, Hawks, Daves, King, Brooks, Mann and others....Mind you, the younger generation nowadays is not that familiar anymore with westerns. I can even think that some have never seen one.... :?
User avatar
mrsl
Posts: 4200
Joined: April 14th, 2007, 5:20 pm
Location: Chicago SW suburbs

Post by mrsl »

Ann:

Don't take my word for bible by all means. I hear it all the time, "I don't like westerns", and being a die hard western fan, I can't understand people being that much against them. I do have two friends who (in their 50's) have never seen a western. I, personally hate horror movies, but I know they will literally make me sick to my stomach - I can't handle the blood and guts of today, I have never been a big fan, but I did watch them occasionally. Now at my age, I've had my fill. However, with westerns, you can get everything, romance, family, comedy, drama - all genres, so it intriques me when I hear "I don't watch them'.

Anne
Anne


***********************************************************************
* * * * * * * * What is past is prologue. * * * * * * * *

]***********************************************************************
User avatar
moira finnie
Administrator
Posts: 8024
Joined: April 9th, 2007, 6:34 pm
Location: Earth
Contact:

Post by moira finnie »

Hey, I just stumbled onto Miss Goddess' splendid recent assessment of Two Rode Together in Western Movie Rambles on TCM, (boy, it's hard to find stuff in those all purpose threads). I sure hope that she'll see fit to post it here, but until she does, here's a link to the page with this post on it. Look for it around the middle of the page. It's really interesting!
Avatar: Frank McHugh (1898-1981)

The Skeins
TCM Movie Morlocks
User avatar
mrsl
Posts: 4200
Joined: April 14th, 2007, 5:20 pm
Location: Chicago SW suburbs

Post by mrsl »

Wow.

Miss Goddess and I usually agree on movies that we like and/or dislike, but we're miles apart on this one. I love Two Rode Together, and have since the first time I watched it. It's one of those movies I didn't want to end, I wanted it to go on and on and give me more about the people and what happened to them. Unfortunately, for me, reading Alices' post, I have to agree that some of the characters could have been more developed, preferably Shirley Jones, and I liked Stewart and never got that feeling of meanness. I just thought of him as a man who had been all around, and finally found a place where he could be a 'big fish in a little pond'.

As I said, though, I recommend this movie all the time. I hope I didn't set anyone off on the wrong path.

Anne
Anne


***********************************************************************
* * * * * * * * What is past is prologue. * * * * * * * *

]***********************************************************************
User avatar
MissGoddess
Posts: 5072
Joined: April 17th, 2007, 10:01 am
Contact:

Post by MissGoddess »

Wow, Moira, you are intrepid to have managed to even find that
terrible "ramble" of mine in that long and winding thread! :oops: I
think now I wrote with too harsh a tone and sound as if I hated it,
which is hardly the case.

Forgive me Anne, I didn't mean to sound so critical, I just didn't
warm to it like I do most everything else by JF. That's not to say
you steered me wrong or that any western fan should overlook it.
"There's only one thing that can kill the movies, and that's education."
-- Will Rogers
User avatar
moira finnie
Administrator
Posts: 8024
Joined: April 9th, 2007, 6:34 pm
Location: Earth
Contact:

Post by moira finnie »

mrsl wrote:Miss Goddess and I usually agree on movies that we like and/or dislike, but we're miles apart on this one. I love Two Rode Together, and have since the first time I watched it... I have to agree that some of the characters could have been more developed, preferably Shirley Jones, and I liked Stewart and never got that feeling of meanness. I just thought of him as a man who had been all around, and finally found a place where he could be a 'big fish in a little pond'.

As I said, though, I recommend this movie all the time. I hope I didn't set anyone off on the wrong path.
Gee, sometimes I think the ability of each of us to interpret the characters and story so differently was one of the aspects of this movie (or any John Ford movie) that is so intriguing. For example, having seen Two Rode Together (1961) a couple of times over the years, my primary and most vivid impressions of it are not of the leads Stewart and Widmark at all.

I normally like both these very different actors, but their cantankerous relationship seemed a warm up for "Liberty Valance" and warmed over from "The Searchers". The pair never really connected for me as comrades or friends or "frenemies". From stuff written about this shoot, it might be that the needling of Ford didn't always bring out the best in all actors and the increasing deafness of both stars and the near blindness of Ford at the time sure couldn't have helped communication off screen, so maybe that affected the story on the screen too?

Then again, Ford was getting pretty decrepit by this time physically, less able to have the luxury of script development as he might have wished, and, as Miss G. pointed out, was struggling with reconciling himself to the death of Ward Bond, his longtime favorite whipping boy and a darned good actor, despite the surface bluster he adopted.

I liked the potential of the Shirley Jones spunky girl of the prairies character, but, as Anne notes, her character sure wasn't overwritten, was it? Best of all seemed to me to be the dignified and realistically drawn Linda Cristal, as the fatalistic captive of one other great presence in this movie, Woody Strode. The scene by the campfire at night waiting for Strode was very well done, as was the entrance of Stewart & Cristal at the settler's dance. Perhaps both scenes might have played even better in a silent movie, (as I think Ford would have liked)--though I do think that Stewart's speech about racism was pretty well done, if a tad forced.

Other touching and vivid moments in the movie belonged to Mae Marsh, a relatively restrained (for him) John Qualen and Regina Carol as a long separated father and daughter and David Kent as Running Wolf, Jones' long lost brother.

I guess I should see this again to try to see if more of the stars seems a bit less cardboard to me.
Avatar: Frank McHugh (1898-1981)

The Skeins
TCM Movie Morlocks
User avatar
mrsl
Posts: 4200
Joined: April 14th, 2007, 5:20 pm
Location: Chicago SW suburbs

Post by mrsl »

Moira is so right. I did feel the bonded friendship between Stewart and Widmark. I felt it first at the dance when the two men stood against the entire assemblage, then later when Widmark made the 10% remark, he was saying he understood that Stewart had found someone just he had found Shirley Jones, and she was more precious than gold. I love the picking on poor Andy Devine, and always feel Woody Strode was never given enough screen time except in The Last Voyage and Sergeant Rutledge. He's made loads of movies, but he usually has such small parts, you barely see him.

I've seen Two Rode Together at least 25 times, probably more, yet I never fail to kind of quietly scream at Shirley Jones to hurry when she realizes what happened with the music box.

Anne
Anne


***********************************************************************
* * * * * * * * What is past is prologue. * * * * * * * *

]***********************************************************************
Post Reply