Westerns to me are the probably the most basic genre of film. Elements are refined and reduced to bare points. Because of their sparseness, the ingredients have to be superb to produce a great movie, whether it’s acting, cinematography, or story. In music, you could liken it to the Blues or perhaps in poetry to Haiku. It’s a style that imposes great limitations, and as a result, it takes considerable talent to create something unique.
I could name more Comedy, Drama, Noir, Horror, etc. that I loved more than Westerns in number, but the quality of the Westerns I do enjoy are usually head and shoulders above the best films in those genres.
Anybody else watch westerns besides me?
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myrnaloyisdope
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I find that my enjoyment of the Western mirrors my enjoyment of the Gangster picture. Both genres allow to invest myself and live vicariously through the leads. I've written before that essentially I feel "gangsta" while watching them, which is to say I am fascinated with the idea of shooting someone who's done me wrong, essentially taking care of business, something which I would never do in real life. It's in essence a projection of my desired manhood on screen. I don't want to shoot anybody, but I love how John Wayne just handles everything in Rio Bravo. Shoot first ask questions later. For me it's invigorating, and oh so fun to watch. But only when you have the right lead, or at the very least a great bad guy.
"Do you think it's dangerous to have Busby Berkeley dreams?" - The Magnetic Fields
Thanks for all the responses everybody. I know a little more about myself now. Actually Miss Goddess said most of it for me. I can add this however, when Mann, Boetticher and even Papa Ford made those more deep, dark, and meaningful westerns, they kept the good-guy, bad-guy straight, and the shoot-em-up scenes remained in the film. When Eastwood came along and gave us the 'thinking man's' western, the charm and fun went out the window. Red River was a great western and I believe it was close to the true way wranglers lived during cattle drives, but like the shock valued bloody movies we see today, much of the go-get-'em, ride 'em cowboy, feeling went out with the charm and fun.
All through Warlock, you were on a hook - Was Fonda going to handle the bad guys alone, Why did he keep Tony Quinn around? There was even that hint of kinky sex involved. But still it was a total western with good guys and bad guys, only. . . with a surprising twist at the end. I agree that I don't care much for the new theatrical westerns being made, but some of the ones made for TV are exceptional, and sadly lost because so many people never cruise around the channels to see what is being offered on Hallmark, Lifetime, FX, and several others.
Anne
All through Warlock, you were on a hook - Was Fonda going to handle the bad guys alone, Why did he keep Tony Quinn around? There was even that hint of kinky sex involved. But still it was a total western with good guys and bad guys, only. . . with a surprising twist at the end. I agree that I don't care much for the new theatrical westerns being made, but some of the ones made for TV are exceptional, and sadly lost because so many people never cruise around the channels to see what is being offered on Hallmark, Lifetime, FX, and several others.
Anne
Anne
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As a kid I never really appreciated Westerns but now I try to watch at least one western a week or at the very least most of one. There's something about the whole frontier and "make your own morals" type of storytelling in the movies.
The only westerns I have a hard time watching are the neo-westerns that people like Burt Reynolds and Jack Nicholson were in. Just not my type and it felt like counter culture movies dressed up in western garb.
The only westerns I have a hard time watching are the neo-westerns that people like Burt Reynolds and Jack Nicholson were in. Just not my type and it felt like counter culture movies dressed up in western garb.
Jdb1 said:
As far as why "we ladies" might like Westerns - speaking for myself, the primary attraction will always be the cowboys themselves. A compelling actor, got up in those long, lean jeans, and acting all laconic and macho, is usually worth looking at, at least for a few minutes.
This is all the reason I need to watch ‘em.
Seriously though, I’ve never really liked the Western genre (and I’m from Texas and grew up around people like my dad who loved them) until I started watching Gary’s films and his Westerns are some of my faves of his. The stories are really good and while he was good in all the roles he played, he was perfect for Westerns. I still don’t like many non-Gary westerns but I am trying to branch out. The new film Appaloosa coming out in Oct looks promising.
As far as why "we ladies" might like Westerns - speaking for myself, the primary attraction will always be the cowboys themselves. A compelling actor, got up in those long, lean jeans, and acting all laconic and macho, is usually worth looking at, at least for a few minutes.
This is all the reason I need to watch ‘em.
Seriously though, I’ve never really liked the Western genre (and I’m from Texas and grew up around people like my dad who loved them) until I started watching Gary’s films and his Westerns are some of my faves of his. The stories are really good and while he was good in all the roles he played, he was perfect for Westerns. I still don’t like many non-Gary westerns but I am trying to branch out. The new film Appaloosa coming out in Oct looks promising.
“I never really thought of myself as an actor. But I’d learned to ride on my dad’s ranch and I could do some roping stunts and working as an extra was better than starving as an artist nobody wanted on the West Coast.” - Gary Cooper
Hi, all!
It's been a long while, but this thread made me interested.
The Western, to me, was for a long while boring. When I, as a youngster (ca. 1990-1995), watched John Wayne movies like Stagecoach, Red River, The Searchers, Rio Bravo and El Dorado. I found them quite long and boring and this includes The Westerner. There wasn't enough action.
Now I've rediscovered the western, steering away from those iconic Wayne movies.
After re-watching The Searchers, it's still no favourite.
I love the Mann/Stewart movies, though.
A classic theme repeatedly used in Westerns is the one about the big landowner and his weak son taken from Shakespeare's King Lear.
Here's the movies of that type which I've seen: Tall Man Riding (1955), The Man From Laramie (1955) and Last Train From Gun Hill (1959) (and, maybe, in Jacques Tourneur's excellent 'B' western Stranger on Horseback (1955).
Feel free to mention other westerns of this type, there must be countless others.
One of the elements I enjoy most in those types of westerns is the spoiled and weak son learning his lesson.
I also like the cold, tough loner who brings justice to a town inhabited by cowards or people who don’t want to upset the land baron.
It is repetitive seeing these themes and conventions over and over in various movies. But, I like the different ways they are handled in each film.
It's a strange pleasure in seeing Joel McCrae getting a glass of water in his face from an opposing guy and calmly replying something along the lines of: "Thanks, it's a hot day" and just walking on. (Stranger on Horseback)
That same staunch loner can be seen in a wonderful performance from Henry Fonda in the multi-layered Warlock (1959) (one of my favourites).
(And, yes, I know hundreds of westerns make use of the plot of the loner bringing peace and justice to a town.)
And, then, I have to mention that major plot lines from Rio Bravo was previously used in both Stranger on Horseback and The Proud Ones (1956).
I hope Jacques Tourneur's other two westerns will soon get a DVD release. They are conventional but done in unconventional ways (read 'Tourneurian' ways).
I will continue to explore the Westerns of Tourneur, Boetticher, Mann and others. I can't pin down why I don't enjoy the Ford and/or Wayne westerns in the same way.
Sincerely Mr. Even B. (29 years old) Norway
It's been a long while, but this thread made me interested.
The Western, to me, was for a long while boring. When I, as a youngster (ca. 1990-1995), watched John Wayne movies like Stagecoach, Red River, The Searchers, Rio Bravo and El Dorado. I found them quite long and boring and this includes The Westerner. There wasn't enough action.
Now I've rediscovered the western, steering away from those iconic Wayne movies.
After re-watching The Searchers, it's still no favourite.
I love the Mann/Stewart movies, though.
A classic theme repeatedly used in Westerns is the one about the big landowner and his weak son taken from Shakespeare's King Lear.
Here's the movies of that type which I've seen: Tall Man Riding (1955), The Man From Laramie (1955) and Last Train From Gun Hill (1959) (and, maybe, in Jacques Tourneur's excellent 'B' western Stranger on Horseback (1955).
Feel free to mention other westerns of this type, there must be countless others.
One of the elements I enjoy most in those types of westerns is the spoiled and weak son learning his lesson.
I also like the cold, tough loner who brings justice to a town inhabited by cowards or people who don’t want to upset the land baron.
It is repetitive seeing these themes and conventions over and over in various movies. But, I like the different ways they are handled in each film.
It's a strange pleasure in seeing Joel McCrae getting a glass of water in his face from an opposing guy and calmly replying something along the lines of: "Thanks, it's a hot day" and just walking on. (Stranger on Horseback)
That same staunch loner can be seen in a wonderful performance from Henry Fonda in the multi-layered Warlock (1959) (one of my favourites).
(And, yes, I know hundreds of westerns make use of the plot of the loner bringing peace and justice to a town.)
And, then, I have to mention that major plot lines from Rio Bravo was previously used in both Stranger on Horseback and The Proud Ones (1956).
I hope Jacques Tourneur's other two westerns will soon get a DVD release. They are conventional but done in unconventional ways (read 'Tourneurian' ways).
I will continue to explore the Westerns of Tourneur, Boetticher, Mann and others. I can't pin down why I don't enjoy the Ford and/or Wayne westerns in the same way.
Sincerely Mr. Even B. (29 years old) Norway
Last edited by movieman on October 20th, 2008, 9:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
Well, Mr. Even B (29 years old) Norway:
I'm surprised you didn't like El Dorado, it's one of my favorites, notwithstanding the fact that Mitchum stars in it. For one of the best movies about father/sons inheritance, try to find a copy of Spencer Tracey and Richard Widmark, in Broken Lance, considering the calibre of actor that Tracey was, you probably know it will be worth seeing. Two more I can suggest without hesitation are Widmark in Death of a Gunfighter, and Mitchum in Man with a Gun, both about one man protecting the whole town, but both with different endings. For laughs, if you've never seen the Jim Garner Support Your Local Sheriff/(Gunfighter), you're missing something. Those are two real and honest funny comedies. Finally, quite often when discussing western movies, I frequently suggest you try to see Westward the Women with Robert Taylor - definitely not a chick flick.
Go get 'em cowboy :!:
Anne
I'm surprised you didn't like El Dorado, it's one of my favorites, notwithstanding the fact that Mitchum stars in it. For one of the best movies about father/sons inheritance, try to find a copy of Spencer Tracey and Richard Widmark, in Broken Lance, considering the calibre of actor that Tracey was, you probably know it will be worth seeing. Two more I can suggest without hesitation are Widmark in Death of a Gunfighter, and Mitchum in Man with a Gun, both about one man protecting the whole town, but both with different endings. For laughs, if you've never seen the Jim Garner Support Your Local Sheriff/(Gunfighter), you're missing something. Those are two real and honest funny comedies. Finally, quite often when discussing western movies, I frequently suggest you try to see Westward the Women with Robert Taylor - definitely not a chick flick.
Go get 'em cowboy :!:
Anne
Anne
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Anne
Maybe, I'll like El Dorardo if I re-watch it. Haven't seen it since 1992.
I have Broken Lance on DVD. Seen it once. A very good movie, but to me not as good as The Man from Laramie.
Maybe it's better on the second viewing. I should've included it in my list of King Lear inspired movies. I agree with you that Spencer Tracy gave a great performance.
Funny you should mention Man with the Gun I ordered it yesterday along with No Name on the Bullet (1959) and Will Penny (1968).
I like Mitchum. He was unique.
I remember my father, brother and I watching it and we all found it a boring disappointment. But I like Joan Hackett so I'll give it another try. As far as I can remember it's no traditional western.
I've seen Support Your Local Gunfighter and I enjoyed it.
James Garner, Joan Hackett and Jack Elam in the same movie is nice.
I'd like to see Westward the Women, but I don't have TCM. That's a shame cause I've seen it in their program schedule quite a few times.
I'd also like to see Death of a Gunfighter. I know it can be ordered from France and, possibly, Italy.
Thanks for your comments Anne and thanks to all the nice people here who've given their fair and honest opinions on the Western genre.
This is the best movie forum on the net, period!
Sincerely
Mr. Even
Maybe, I'll like El Dorardo if I re-watch it. Haven't seen it since 1992.
I have Broken Lance on DVD. Seen it once. A very good movie, but to me not as good as The Man from Laramie.
Maybe it's better on the second viewing. I should've included it in my list of King Lear inspired movies. I agree with you that Spencer Tracy gave a great performance.
Funny you should mention Man with the Gun I ordered it yesterday along with No Name on the Bullet (1959) and Will Penny (1968).
I like Mitchum. He was unique.
I remember my father, brother and I watching it and we all found it a boring disappointment. But I like Joan Hackett so I'll give it another try. As far as I can remember it's no traditional western.
I've seen Support Your Local Gunfighter and I enjoyed it.
James Garner, Joan Hackett and Jack Elam in the same movie is nice.
I'd like to see Westward the Women, but I don't have TCM. That's a shame cause I've seen it in their program schedule quite a few times.
I'd also like to see Death of a Gunfighter. I know it can be ordered from France and, possibly, Italy.
Thanks for your comments Anne and thanks to all the nice people here who've given their fair and honest opinions on the Western genre.
This is the best movie forum on the net, period!
Sincerely
Mr. Even