Liberty Valance

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MissGoddess
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Re: Liberty Valance

Post by MissGoddess »

Hi, Gary, I find it heavy to watch too often. It's very emotional.
"There's only one thing that can kill the movies, and that's education."
-- Will Rogers
Maricatrin
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A tale of two videos ...

Post by Maricatrin »

Here's something funny that happened to me --- I thought there were only photo montages for the The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance on youtube, so I went ahead and made a music video for the film using my favorite version of the song, sung by Roger Johnson:

[youtube][/youtube]

However, when I was ready to unveil it, I found that someone on youtube had looong ago done a version using actual clips from the movie as well ... and, incidentally, did a darn good job:

[youtube][/youtube]

Looking the video over, I notice we use many of the same clips, but the videos are still different enough not to duplicate each other ... I think ... heck, the song versions aren't the same, anyway! :lol:
https://www.youtube.com/c/MaricatrinsMusicVideos
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movieman1957
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Re: Liberty Valance

Post by movieman1957 »

I saw an early morning show on HBO where comedian Robert Wuhl teaches a history class. His whole premise for the class - "When the legend becomes fact print the legend." Pretty funny and at times a bit raunchy I thought that all, save for the language, history classes should be like this one.

Nice job Mary-Kate.
Chris

"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana."
Maricatrin
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Re: Liberty Valance

Post by Maricatrin »

movieman1957 wrote:Nice job Mary-Kate.
Thank you kindly. :)
https://www.youtube.com/c/MaricatrinsMusicVideos
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MissGoddess
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Re: Liberty Valance

Post by MissGoddess »

I really enjoyed yours, Mary-Kate. Thanks so much for posting it! It really made the song come alive.
"There's only one thing that can kill the movies, and that's education."
-- Will Rogers
Maricatrin
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Re: Liberty Valance

Post by Maricatrin »

MissGoddess wrote:I really enjoyed yours, Mary-Kate. Thanks so much for posting it! It really made the song come alive.
Comments like this mean a lot to me; thank you very much, MissGoddess. :D
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tinker
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Re: Liberty Valance

Post by tinker »

Thank you for posting the vids. They are great. They also made me go back and watch the film again. Always a good thing, and of course every time you watch it you see something you never saw before.

When Rance first meets Pompei again in the beginning of the film, he is very awkward and uncomfortable and the expression on James Stewart's face is really on the moment. Also Rance when he is talking to Pompei drops the "Senator" postering and talks in the voice we will soon see as the young Rance. To me this is all foreshadowing that Pompei knows Rance's secret about who shot Liberty Valance.

I wonder how much the context of facing Pompei again influences Rance's confession? By the end though he is back in "senator" mode when he offers pork chop money to Pompei. Maybe a hint that confession has not been good for Rance's soul or he simply does not know how to deal with the "truth". One of the things always notable in Ford is just how important the so-called support characters are to the action, even when they don't appear to be doing anything. ( I think)

I have seen those interviews where James Stewart talks about how John Ford embarassed him in front of the whole cast over Woody Strode just before those scenes were filmed. Was Ford astute enough ( and mean enough) to push James Stewart so he was genuinely embarrassed around Woody Strode?

I was also during my recent US travels reading a couple of Ford biographies. One of the things that seems to come up is how much time in the late fifties and sixties Ford spent in bed watching TV westerns. Do you think that one of the reasons for the very minimialist sets is because Ford saw something of a mythology growing in those old rather cheaply made westerns ( which in fact have some terrific writing and social context) and copied that mythology to create his own? If he could translate Remington onto the screen, its not impossible he could see something in those westerns too.


dee
[b]But I, being poor, have only my dreams; I have spread my dreams under your feet; Tread softly because you tread on my dreams[/b]. (William Butler Yeats )
[b]How did I get to Hollywood? By train.[/b] (John Ford)
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Re: Liberty Valance

Post by Maricatrin »

tinker wrote:Thank you for posting the vids. They are great. They also made me go back and watch the film again. Always a good thing, and of course every time you watch it you see something you never saw before.
Thanks dee/tinker, always happy to oblige. :)
tinker wrote:I have seen those interviews where James Stewart talks about how John Ford embarassed him in front of the whole cast over Woody Strode just before those scenes were filmed. Was Ford astute enough ( and mean enough) to push James Stewart so he was genuinely embarrassed around Woody Strode?
Ford might have wanted to get Stewart off-balance on purpose for the scene, I wouldn't be surprised if that was his reason. Of course, you don't know with Ford, he might have just been feeling ornery that day.
tinker wrote:Do you think that one of the reasons for the very minimialist sets is because Ford saw something of a mythology growing in those old rather cheaply made westerns ( which in fact have some terrific writing and social context) and copied that mythology to create his own? If he could translate Remington onto the screen, its not impossible he could see something in those westerns too.
I think Ford took more care than many other directors to get that spare, sometimes dirty, but always used look for his western sets. The kind of look you'll see in actual old western photographs, and in silent and early sound westerns. As film making got more polished, the costumes and sets got more polished looking too, and a lot of westerns look more 20th century than 19th century ... not that I still don't enjoy them.
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MissGoddess
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Re: Liberty Valance

Post by MissGoddess »

One of the things that seems to come up is how much time in the late fifties and sixties Ford spent in bed watching TV westerns. Do you think that one of the reasons for the very minimialist sets is because Ford saw something of a mythology growing in those old rather cheaply made westerns ( which in fact have some terrific writing and social context) and copied that mythology to create his own? If he could translate Remington onto the screen, its not impossible he could see something in those westerns too.


Hi, Dee and welcome to the SSO!

That's a really fascinating observation. I honestly never thought about that. Whenever I picture JF watching the western TV shows I imagine him going nuts over some of the cheap-jack production values (on the lesser shows) or seeing some of his own movies used for stock footage, lol. But you may have something there. He, like most artists, found a way of processing and using all sorts of things for his work. Whatever the case, I found your supposition to be really thought provoking.
"There's only one thing that can kill the movies, and that's education."
-- Will Rogers
tinker
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Re: Liberty Valance

Post by tinker »

Thank you Miss Goddess and Mary-Kate

I admit that I really love some of the old fifties and sixties westerns, well not Bonanza but many of the others and I am always surprised at some of the writing and stories so I do wonder if someone saw the context at the time. Some great actors too. A certain academy award winner and rodeo champion was a regular fixture in them as were other Ford Stock company actors.


The idea of minimalist sets as artistic content isn't original; though. I think the set designer and choreographer in Oklahoma understood the symbolism too!!!

I really wonder which character in Liberty Valance had the greatest tragedy. Tom because his life was a complete failure after the shooting or Rance because he seemed to realise at the end his life and his love were both frauds.

And both were decent men.


dee
[b]But I, being poor, have only my dreams; I have spread my dreams under your feet; Tread softly because you tread on my dreams[/b]. (William Butler Yeats )
[b]How did I get to Hollywood? By train.[/b] (John Ford)
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MissGoddess
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Re: Liberty Valance

Post by MissGoddess »

I really wonder which character in Liberty Valance had the greatest tragedy. Tom because his life was a complete failure after the shooting or Rance because he seemed to realise at the end his life and his love were both frauds.

And both were decent men.


That's the genius of the film. It leaves us who will to ponder these questions (and more).

What are some of your favorite TV westerns?
"There's only one thing that can kill the movies, and that's education."
-- Will Rogers
tinker
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Re: Liberty Valance

Post by tinker »

What are some of your favorite TV westerns?
I guess Laramie is my favourite, and High Chapparel. The more I see of Wagon Train the more I like it. Not all of them of course but there are some gems in there. I just got DVD's of something called Overland Trail with a very young Doug McClure and William Bendix which was surprisingly good. The Virginian has some terrific stories ( but some real stinkers too). I also really like Laredo an Alias Smith an Jones but only because everyone needs some fluff in life.

dee
[b]But I, being poor, have only my dreams; I have spread my dreams under your feet; Tread softly because you tread on my dreams[/b]. (William Butler Yeats )
[b]How did I get to Hollywood? By train.[/b] (John Ford)
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MissGoddess
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Re: Liberty Valance

Post by MissGoddess »

I guess Laramie is my favourite, and High Chapparel. The more I see of Wagon Train the more I like it. Not all of them of course but there are some gems in there. I just got DVD's of something called Overland Trail with a very young Doug McClure and William Bendix which was surprisingly good. The Virginian has some terrific stories ( but some real stinkers too). I also really like Laredo an Alias Smith an Jones but only because everyone needs some fluff in life.


I don't believe I have ever seen "Laramie", but "The High Chaparral" is my very favorite. I've been re-visiting them on YouTube. I'm not familiar with "Overland Trail" but I do like the early episodes of "The Virginian", especially those with Lee J. Cobb.

The High Chaparral
Gunsmoke
Have Gun, Will Travel
The Rifleman


The above are my tippy top favorites.
"There's only one thing that can kill the movies, and that's education."
-- Will Rogers
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JackFavell
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Re: Liberty Valance

Post by JackFavell »

I'm late to the thread, but I wanted to say how much I liked your video, Mary Kate! You set up the sequence, but then played around with the chronology just a bit to fit the music. I really liked that, it made it more complex than the other one, but still understandable. And your reveal was much more interesting. Yours made me realize how important the lighting was in the film, which I had never really noticed before. I always get swept up in the story too much to notice. :D
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Re: Liberty Valance

Post by Maricatrin »

JackFavell wrote:I'm late to the thread, but I wanted to say how much I liked your video, Mary Kate!
It's never too late to tell me that. :lol: Thanks so much, Wendy! Sometimes I have a hard time favorably evaluating my own videos, I tend to overthink them a bit (oops, should have used a different scene there / well, that transition didn't work / why did I use that shot?), so it's great to get an unbiased viewpont. :D

I think I've discovered that in making videos for John Ford films, the beautiful lighting and composition do most of the work for me! The only trouble is, now I've got to figure out what other songs I can match up.

BTW, my latest video (in time for Christmas) is posted on the Merry Christmas thread if you might like to take a look; hope you enjoy it.
https://www.youtube.com/c/MaricatrinsMusicVideos
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