Welcome to Kendra Bean, Our Guest Author on 10/18 & 10/21

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Rita Hayworth
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Re: Welcome to Kendra Bean, Our Guest Author on 10/18 & 10/21

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kendrajbean wrote:
Rita Hayworth wrote:Ms Bean,

One of her films that she did - I did see this film in Vancouver Canada about 2 years ago and I was stunned to see her play Cleopatra - in Caesar and Cleopatra a 1945 film starring Claude Rains as Julius Caesar and Vivian Leigh as Cleopatra. I never knew that she did played Cleopatra in this epic movie that also starred Stewart Granger, Flora Robson, and others too.

On to the questions - actually three of them.

1) Of the two Cleopatra's lady attendants - Olga Edwardes and Harda Swanhilde - both of these actresses were stunning as Cleopatra's lady attendants and I was wondering can you tell me anything about them?

2) Was this role was a very difficult role for Vivian to play?

3) I was stunned to see Claude Rains as Julius Caesar and can you shed some light about how he got this starring role as Caesar?


I was hoping you could answer these three questions - and I appreciate any information on it. And, thanks for joining us in our humble forum.
I'm afraid I have no answer for the first question, but I can answer the second two.

Caesar and Cleopatra was the first film Vivien made in England following Gone With the Wind. Cleopatra was a role she was keen on playing (she would reprise it on stage in 1950 opposite Laurence Olivier), and the producer J. Arthur Rank was keen to have her in the film because she was now a big Hollywood star and that meant the film had a good chance of being a success in America. But making the film was difficult and unhappy for Vivien for a variety of reasons: George Bernard Shaw, who wrote the pay the film was based on and who also had full control over the script, forbade director Gabriel Pascal to make any changes. This meant that there was little room for interpretation on the actors' part, so it was more Shaw's character than Vivien's. The film was also made during the war and Britain was still being bombed by the Germans in 1944, so conditions at Denham Studios were dangerous. On top of this, Vivien suffered a miscarriage after a fall on the set. It is believed that this traumatic event was the catalyst for the emergence of her bipolar disorder.

Claude Rains seems like a natural choice to play the elderly Caesar. Like Vivien, he was considered valuable property because he was fairly well known in Hollywood - and he was available at the time. Rains was Pascal's first choice to play Caesar due to his classical theatre background.

Thanks so much about Vivian Leigh in this move Ms. Bean and I understand why the difficulties of Vivian working under those conditions and I know that George Bernard Shaw can be a very difficult person to work with. I just wanted to convey that and I do appreciate it very much about the sheer difficulties that Vivian had to endure.

About Claude Rains ... thanks for sharing your thoughts on him. I did not know that Mr. Pascal (the Director of the movie) was his first choice to play Julius Caesar. Interesting ... You taught me something new today about Claude Rains. I'm a big fan of Claude Rains - he is such a great actor and I was very impressed by his performance in this film.

No problems about Cleopatra's lady servants - I was hoping that you could answer them - but its doesn't hurt to ask.

Anyway, thanks for sharing these answers today and I appreciate your time with us ... and I understand that you will be back on Monday. I got another question - I will try to type it up tomorrow. Thanks again Ms. Bean. :)
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Re: Welcome to Kendra Bean, Our Guest Author on 10/18 & 10/21

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James Zeruk, Jr. wrote:Congratulations on your book, Ms. Bean! I have it in my Que and will be chatting it up and endorsing it (and you) in my Hollywood Book Chat group on facebook. I was looking at some of it on Amazon, and I was actually startled to see a caption for an image you credited as taken by Vivienne (Florence Entwistle). Was Entwistle an official, or favorite photographer of Ms. Leigh's? Of all the photographers that captured her in studio portraits, is there one you think portrayed her most favorably?

Incidentally, Peg Entwistle, the "Hollywood Sign Girl" had an uncle in London named Ernest. His wife was Vivienne F. Entwistle. I always assumed the "F" was for Frances, but now I wonder if it was for "Florence," and if Peg's Aunt Vivienne was this same woman who photographed Ms. Leigh! If so, it is too late for me to include in Peg's biography (Peg Entwistle and the Hollywood Sign Suicide), but it would be a remarkable discovery, nonetheless.

Your book looks fabulous and I am very much looking forward to reading it. Best of luck and success to you.
Hi James,

Vivienne did photograph Vivien Leigh numerous times in the 1940s and 50s. Her retrospective, They Came to My Studio, is worth a read. Leigh's "official" photographer was actually Angus McBean who also operated out of London at the same time. The photo in the book that you refer to was actually taken by Laszlo Willinger, it's just the accompanying quote that's attributed to Vivienne.

Leigh was photographed by just about every top photographer of her day, including several famous fashion photographers like Norman Parkinson, John Rawlings, and George Hoyningen-Huene. I think Cecil Beaton captured her exceptionally well. But my favorite photo of Vivien (found on page 108 of my book) was taken by Philippe Halsman during a LIFE shoot in 1946. It was never published in the magazine but it's absolutely stunning.

The connection you made between Peg Entwistle and Vivienne (Florence Mellish Entwistle) seems to be correct. She was married to the London-based artist Ernest Entwistle. That would make Peg cousins with the equally famous photographer Anthony Beauchamp, who married Sarah Churchill and committed suicide in 1957. The National Portrait Gallery in London has some interesting information on Vivienne, as well as quite a few samples of her work: http://www.npg.org.uk/collections/searc ... 9/vivienne
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Re: Welcome to Kendra Bean, Our Guest Author on 10/18 & 10/21

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To Our Members and Friends:
Please bear in mind that Kendra Bean will not necessarily be on-hand on Saturday and Sunday to answer questions but that we have left the thread open and you are welcome to post questions here throughout the weekend. Ms. Bean has consented to answering these when she returns. Thank you, Kendra--and thanks to all those participating and reading this discussion.
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Re: Welcome to Kendra Bean, Our Guest Author on 10/18 & 10/21

Post by mongoII »

Welcome to the Silver Screen Oasis, Ms. Bean. It is a pleasure having you here.
What is the lowdown on Ms. Leigh's relationship with her daughter, her only child?
What was her relationship like with Hattie McDaniel who played the fabulous Mammy?
Is is true that she was turned off by Clark Gables false teeth?
I thought she was excellent in "Waterloo Bridge". What did she think of the role?
Thank you very much
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Re: Welcome to Kendra Bean, Our Guest Author on 10/18 & 10/21

Post by pvitari »

Dear Ms. Bean,

Your book is truly beautiful -- thank you for all your hard work in putting it together.

I am wondering if you had to cut out information about Dark Journey at the last minute. It's listed in the index as being discussed on pages 28-29 but those pages instead have illustrations. If there is anything more you can tell us about Vivien and Dark Journey, I would love to hear it. I also especially would like to know how Vivien felt working with the great Conrad Veidt.

Thank you so much for answering our questions!
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Re: Welcome to Kendra Bean, Our Guest Author on 10/18 & 10/21

Post by charliechaplinfan »

Welcome Kendra, I'm so cheered that a new book on Vivien coming out, I already have Alexander Walker's, Hugo Vickers and my favourite the Angus McBean coffee table book. She's my favourite actress too and I would have loved to have watched her on stage but will have to content myself with her films. I have a myriad of questions

How involved was Vivien in the costumes and make up for her parts? I'm thinking particularly of the photos in McBean's book which show her in a variety of stage roles and rarely does she appear as Vivien, very often there is lots of makeup or wigs employed? Most of these roles would have been under the direction of Olivier but I wonder how much of a collaboration their joint projects were or was Vivien happy to let Larry take complete control? (Sorry 2 questions in 1 there)

I'm glad to read a reassessment of Larry, when I was reading about Vivien in the 80s one of the first things I read was Larry's biography and I felt for him, she couldn't have been easy and it did seem that he loved her dearly, was incredibly proud of her and protective too. I also remember reading that he blamed himself for not realising that the role of Blanche Dubois could be detrimental to her and the strain brought about a further breakdown in her health. In the 80s it came across as a magical love affair that went wrong only because of Vivien's ill health and the strain that eventually drove them apart. Nowadays Larry's reputation has suffered a little, an affair with Danny Kaye, an admission by Joan Plowright that Larry was bisexual and admissions by others that he could be arrogant, self serving and prickly. I still think it was only the inability to contain Vivien's bipolar disorder that drove them apart. Do you think Vivien ever blamed Larry for their divorce or did it leave her a broken woman or was their a layer of strength there that is rarely alluded too?

I want to mention too, an episode in David NIven's book Bring on the Empty Horses when he has to cope with a famous actress who was undergoing a breakdown, who I always thought was Judy Garland but have been told in later years that Niven had admitted it was Vivien. Why I wonder did he include it and why name her? He's a great racounteur but just went a little too far for me.

How did she find it joining the American cast of Streetcar? I believe Brando made her laugh with his impressions of Larry. Kim Hunter and her didn't look at all like sisters but were fantastic on screen.
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Re: Welcome to Kendra Bean, Our Guest Author on 10/18 & 10/21

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moirafinnie wrote:Interestingly, I have always thought that Vivien Leigh was aware of her own beauty, and quite capable of using it to her own ends, but she also appeared to have a very scrupulous professional conscience. The level of quality that she demanded of herself and the roles that she chose to take for films was exceptional.

I think most of us know how much Vivien wished she could have appeared as Cathy in Wuthering Heights opposite Olivier and as the second Mrs. de Winter with Olivier in Rebecca. However, most of the time, it seems as though Leigh may have been the female equivalent of Cary Grant. Everyone wanted her to work on their films--but very few were ever fortunate enough to gain her favor. Could you please talk a bit about the many roles she turned down, the possible reasons for this, and if she regretted refusing any particular roles?

Also, I had always thought of Laurence Olivier as an accomplished actor and international figure always in control of his life and career, but my attitude toward Laurence Olivier as a person changed substantially after reading the letters of John Gielgud some years ago. Gielgud, who could be scathing, funny, and brutally frank, appeared to have been taken aback by an occasion in the later years of the Olivier-Leigh marriage. Gielgud describes a shattered Olivier pouring out his heart unexpectedly one day after a chance encounter between the two great actors. The two had worked together, been rivals at times and were respectful but distant and sometimes a bit frosty with one another. I don't think that Gielgud expected it when he ran into Olivier, who suddenly apologized for any past slights that may have distanced them and explained the chronic strain and concern he was always wrestling with while trying to help Vivien Leigh during her bipolar episodes. In your book, I felt that you also felt considerable empathy toward Laurence Olivier. Did your perusal of his archives affect your attitude toward him? Was anything about Olivier surprising to you?

Thanks in advance for your insights.
You're totally right about Vivien being the Cary Grant of actresses. After Gone With the Wind, she was in very high demand, but the projects she really wanted to do (you mentioned Rebecca, and another was Olivier's Henry V) and those Selznick tried to get her to do never coincided. Vivien wasn't overly interested in film stardom, instead taking on the popular attitude of many classically trained British actors of her generation that acting on stage was superior to acting for the screen. Britain declared war on Germany shortly before GWTW premiered and thereafter she was more concerned with returning to London than she was fulfilling her seven year contract. She left Hollywood in 1940 and, as we know, didn't return again until 1950 when she made Streetcar. By then her contract with Selznick had expired (a legal injunction had actually been filed against her in 1946 due to breach of contract). Some of the titles she was either scheduled or rumored to appear in during the 1930s, 40s and 50s included The Thief of Bagdad, The Spy in Black, Forever Amber, Notorious (this one would have been very interesting), Separate Tables, The Chalk Garden, and, Macbeth.

She wasn't interested in many of the films offered her by Selznick, and tried to avoid being typecast. Apparently she did express interest in playing Alicia in Notorious when Selznick mentioned it to her in 1939, but by the time it actually got around to being filmed, she was in England. Vivien very much wanted to star in a film version of Macbeth opposite Olivier. They had performed the play in stage in 1955 and afterward tried to get a film off the ground. Olivier even wrote a script for it, but unfortunately they couldn't secure the funding. By then their marriage was sadly coming to an end.

I like that you detected empathy toward Olivier in the book. I think that's a good way to describe it. People are very divided about him, but I really wanted to be objective about their relationship. I was surprised by how much concern he expressed for her in letters to other people, how proud he was of a lot of her achievements, how much effort he put into making sure she was taken care of when she was going through really bad times with her mental troubles during their marriage, how painful their breakup was for the both of them, and how much he kept tabs on her after their divorce (that bit really surprised me). I'm not trying to build him up to be some perfect person - he definitely wasn't, and neither was Vivien, but I don't think he deserves the reputation of being this horrible monster when it came to his handling of Vivien.
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Re: Welcome to Kendra Bean, Our Guest Author on 10/18 & 10/21

Post by MissGoddess »

Thank you very much for being here and answering our questions, Kendra! It's been fascinating.

May I ask which of Vivien's films is your favorite?
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Re: Welcome to Kendra Bean, Our Guest Author on 10/18 & 10/21

Post by JackFavell »

I'm positively drooling at the idea of a MacBeth film starring those two. It's a shame it never got off the ground.

Ms. Bean,

can you tell me a little about Vivien's acting process? Have you found out anything about how she prepared for her roles? I know from reading that she was very much a proponent of the British acting style, but to me, she seems sparkier, more alive and more realistic on film than almost anyone of her generation, at least on film. She doesn't seem out of place acting with Brando or method actors. Her roles seem so very personal, as if she put herself up on screen. She seems to me to be the embodiment of Stanislavski's method. She lives in the moment, has such an ability to touch her emotional memory through the senses that one feels her emotions rather than merely watching them. How did she get to that point, that she could play it before the camera? Did she plot out her roles, mark up her scripts, create certain pleasing sounds, decide on the overall arc of her character?

Thank you so much.

Wendy
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Re: Welcome to Kendra Bean, Our Guest Author on 10/18 & 10/21

Post by kendrajbean »

Sue Sue Applegate wrote:Thank you so much for visiting us here at The Silver Screen Oasis.
Viven Leigh is one of my favorite actresses. We are lucky and grateful, indeed!

According to the British Film Institute, there is no known print of Gentlemen's Agreement, 1935, produced by the British & Dominions FIlm Corporation (from a story by Jennifer Howard and script by Basil Mason )with Vivien Leigh. Can you tell us anything about this film?

During the production of Gone With The Wind, it is claimed Vivien Leigh was smoking heavily, almost four packs a day. Had her tuberculosis been diagnosed by that time or had it happened much later? And what was the nature of her difficulties/arguments with Victor Fleming?

Delighted you are here,
Christy
Hi Christy,

Thanks for the welcome! Gentleman's Agreement is the only film of Vivien's that I've never been able to get ahold of, although I do recall a clip of it on one of the Vivien documentaries (I believe it was on the TCM documentary Scarlett and Beyond). Gentleman's Agreement was a "quota quickie" made for the British branch of Paramount in order to satisfy the Cinomatograph Films Act of 1927, which stipulated that cinemas has to show a certain percentage of British films every year (compared to Hollywood films). It was an effort to stimulate the British film industry, but usually resulted in "low-cost, poor-quality films commissioned by American distributors operating in the UK purely to satisfy the quota requirements" (wikipedia). Gentleman's Agreement was made before Vivien signed with Alexander Korda, but why it has been lost over time is a mystery to me.

Vivien wasn't suffering from TB while filming GWTW, although heavy smoking probably didn't do her much good. The chronic TB that she suffered as an adult was diagnosed in 1945.

While filming GWTW, Vivien clashed heavily with Victor Fleming. He was the antithesis of George Cukor, who she had become very fond of and who remained a lifelong friend. Fleming was, by all accounts, a brilliant director, but he was also a bit of a bully where Cukor had been nurturing. Vivien wanted to portray the many layers of Scarlett and knew she had to make her somehow sympathetic. Fleming reportedly just wanted Scarlett to be a typical Hollywood b****, so they argued a lot. What's impressive is that Vivien gave as good as she got when it came to Fleming and fought to have things her way - and she didn't yet have the clout of stars like Bette Davis or Joan Crawford! The shoot was really stressful for everyone, so that in itself probably contributed quite a bit to the turbulent relationship between Vivien and her director.
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Re: Welcome to Kendra Bean, Our Guest Author on 10/18 & 10/21

Post by kendrajbean »

kingrat wrote:Thank you so much for meeting with us at SSO. Your book is on my wish list for Christmas. I'm enjoying your insights to the previous questions.

1. I agree with you that Leslie Howard's lack of commitment shows in GWTW, whereas Viven Leigh and Olivia De Havilland give their all. To me, the central relationship in GWTW is the Scarlett/Melanie opposition. Melanie is the feminine ideal of her society, whereas Scarlett expresses the emotions and desires that a sweet, nice girl would have to suppress. Did George Cukor direct the staircase scene between the two (after Scarlett kills the Yankee soldier)? Did Vivien like working with Olivia De Havilland?

2. TCM has recently shown the charming St. Martin's Lane (Sidewalks of London) which brought Vivien to the attention of Selznick. Did she enjoy working with Charles Laughton? Their scenes together are so good.

3. In Fire Over England neither Vivien Leigh nor Laurence Olivier has the "look" that I associate with their later careers, and neither gives the kind of performance that would make them famous in later films. Did Vivien or one of her later directors conceive the right look for her? It's already there in St. Martin's Lane.

4. The character of Karen Stone seems uncomfortably close to Vivien Leigh. One example: Karen Stone has received bad reviews for Rosalind in As You Like It. Vivien received bad reviews for her Viola in Twelfth Night, a similar part. Was it painful for her to play Mrs. Stone?

Again, thank you for chatting with us and the best wishes for your book.
Hi Kingrat, thanks for the welcome!

Cukor's scenes occur in the first half of the film and don't include the one where Scarlett shoots the Yankee at Tara. The most famous scene that he directed was the Atlanta Bazaar (which happens to be my favorite scene in the film!). As far as I know, Vivien did enjoy working with Olivia de Havilland, and Olivia still holds Vivien in really high regard. There seemed to have been a lot of respect between the two.

Vivien actually didn't find find working with Charles Laughton to be very pleasant, but then again, he apparently didn't find it very pleasant to work with her, either. I recently wrote about this film for a DVD booklet, so I hope you don't mind if I share some of that here:
Filming St. Martin’s Lane proved to be challenging. The cast were not a cohesive unit on set. According to Laughton biographer Simon Callow, Leigh was “apparently repelled by Laughton, and dreaded a sexual advance which she would have to reject.” This seems unlikely as it was reported by Elsa Lanchester, and is now accepted by many biographers that Laughton was actually gay. In his biography of Leigh, Alexander Walker offered up the idea that Leigh’s aversion to her co-star stemmed from Laughton’s insistence that she dye her hair blonde when they were preparing to film the unrealized Cyrano de Bergerac.

Then there was Leigh’s own affair with Olivier, which caused some tension on the set. Leigh was again acting with Rex Harrison and according to Larry Adler who played busker Constantine Dan, Olivier would show up on the set whenever Leigh and Harrison were scheduled to film scenes together. The couple would then “disappear into her dressing room,” Adler told Alexander Walker, “and it was quite a business to get her back to work.”
It's nearly midnight here in London, so if it's alright, I'm going to leave it here for tonight and come back and answer the rest of yours and everyone else's questions tomorrow.

Thanks for keeping me on my toes with these great questions, everyone! I'm really enjoying our conversation!
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Re: Welcome to Kendra Bean, Our Guest Author on 10/18 & 10/21

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Kingrat, here are my answers to your other two questions:
kingrat wrote:
3. In Fire Over England neither Vivien Leigh nor Laurence Olivier has the "look" that I associate with their later careers, and neither gives the kind of performance that would make them famous in later films. Did Vivien or one of her later directors conceive the right look for her? It's already there in St. Martin's Lane.

4. The character of Karen Stone seems uncomfortably close to Vivien Leigh. One example: Karen Stone has received bad reviews for Rosalind in As You Like It. Vivien received bad reviews for her Viola in Twelfth Night, a similar part. Was it painful for her to play Mrs. Stone?

Again, thank you for chatting with us and the best wishes for your book.
Vivien seemed to be very conscientious about what looks were fashionable and when. As a woman, her personal look and style changed with the times. It was the same with her films. Even if they were set in the past (as many of them were), she still retains a "look" that was rooted in the present. Vivien was never made to undergo a major transformation like some stars of her time were. The one person who is well documented as requiring physical changes made to Vivien's appearance for the sake of her character is David Selznick. Gone With the Wind was made in 1939 so the more natural, understated beauty style of the 1940s had already started coming in to fashion, and you pointed out that she was already developing that look in 1938 when she appeared in Sidewalks of London. Vivien was required to maintain a natural look for her face, and then there's that famous story of Selznick and Victor Fleming having her breasts taped together to give her more cleavage for the scene where Scarlett shows up at Ashley's birthday party in that stunning red dress. They wanted her to look more sexy.

Later in her career, Vivien took it upon herself to make these changes for her characters. She was more than willing to disguise her natural beauty, as she did in Streetcar, The Roman Spring of Mrs Stone, and Ship of Fools. It was very important to Vivien that she be seen as someone with genuine talent rather than just a beautiful woman, and she really fought hard to project that throughout her career.

Vivien initially rejected the role of Karen Stone, feeling it was too "cruel" a portrait. Or perhaps it hit too close to home. I think Vivien was acutely aware of her position as an ageing actress in the 1960s and how much these roles reflected her real life experience. Tennessee Williams and screenwriter gavin lambert really wanted Vivien for the part and eventually convinced her to do it. And when we watch this film, it's almost impossible not to draw parallels between Vivien and Karen Stone. Audiences at the time, having seen news of her divorce from Olivier splashed all over the press, would have noticed this, too. In my opinion, it was very brave of her to tackle this role and to turn that harsh spotlight on herself in such a way. She brought fragility and a sense of dignity to characters like Karen Stone and Mary Treadwell in Ship of Fools that might have become very camp had they been played by someone else.
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Re: Welcome to Kendra Bean, Our Guest Author on 10/18 & 10/21

Post by kendrajbean »

Kingrat, here are my answers to your other two questions:
kingrat wrote:
3. In Fire Over England neither Vivien Leigh nor Laurence Olivier has the "look" that I associate with their later careers, and neither gives the kind of performance that would make them famous in later films. Did Vivien or one of her later directors conceive the right look for her? It's already there in St. Martin's Lane.

4. The character of Karen Stone seems uncomfortably close to Vivien Leigh. One example: Karen Stone has received bad reviews for Rosalind in As You Like It. Vivien received bad reviews for her Viola in Twelfth Night, a similar part. Was it painful for her to play Mrs. Stone?

Again, thank you for chatting with us and the best wishes for your book.
Vivien seemed to be very conscientious about what looks were fashionable and when. As a woman, her personal look and style changed with the times. It was the same with her films. Even if they were set in the past (as many of them were), she still retains a "look" that was rooted in the present. Vivien was never made to undergo a major transformation like some stars of her time were. The one person who is well documented as requiring physical changes made to Vivien's appearance for the sake of her character is David Selznick. Gone With the Wind was made in 1939 so the more natural, understated beauty style of the 1940s had already started coming in to fashion, and you pointed out that she was already developing that look in 1938 when she appeared in Sidewalks of London. Vivien was required to maintain a natural look for her face, and then there's that famous story of Selznick and Victor Fleming having her breasts taped together to give her more cleavage for the scene where Scarlett shows up at Ashley's birthday party in that stunning red dress. They wanted her to look more sexy.

Later in her career, Vivien took it upon herself to make these changes for her characters. She was more than willing to disguise her natural beauty, as she did in Streetcar, The Roman Spring of Mrs Stone, and Ship of Fools. It was very important to Vivien that she be seen as someone with genuine talent rather than just a beautiful woman, and she really fought hard to project that throughout her career.

Vivien initially rejected the role of Karen Stone, feeling it was too "cruel" a portrait. Or perhaps it hit too close to home. I think Vivien was acutely aware of her position as an ageing actress in the 1960s and how much these roles reflected her real life experience. Tennessee Williams and screenwriter Gavin Lambert really wanted Vivien for the part and eventually convinced her to do it. And when we watch this film, it's almost impossible not to draw parallels between Vivien and Karen Stone. Audiences at the time, having seen news of her divorce from Olivier splashed all over the press, would have noticed this, too. In my opinion, it was very brave of her to tackle this role and to turn that harsh spotlight on herself in such a way. She brought fragility and a sense of dignity to characters like Karen Stone and Mary Treadwell in Ship of Fools that might have become very camp had they been played by someone else.
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Re: Welcome to Kendra Bean, Our Guest Author on 10/18 & 10/21

Post by Sue Sue Applegate »

Kendra, thank you so much for your visit here, your in-depth response to all of our questions, and your time, patience, and commitment to creating a wonderful testament to the life and career of Vivien Leigh.
Sincerely,
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