A Letter from Robert Israel!!!

[Gagman 66]

This is amazing! I received an E-mail last night from the multi-talented Composer/Musician/Conductor Robert Israel!!! I am honored that he would take time to converse with me. I have never communicated with him before. In-fact, I had no idea how to reach him.

While I would like to be able to post his comments here for all to see, I will not do so without having first been given his direct consent.

I sent him a response, and inquired if it would be OK to post what He had to say? Hopefully, I will hear back from him shortly. For those who are curious, I will forward you the E-mail if you would like to read it? Just let me know.

[bdp]

That's awesome, Jeffrey - Robert Israel is a class act.

[Gagman 66]

Kyle,

Hey that's uncanny! You know that it must be close to Halloween now! Scottman used the exact same sentence to describe Robert Israel? Do you know Scottman? Here is his brief response earlier. Kind of Spooky!

Hi Jeffrey,

Thanks for forwarding Mr. Israel's wonderful comments about his score for THE BLACKBIRD. Robert Israel is a class act!
Thanks.

Scott

[drednm]

LOL ya but I said the same thing about Carl Davis and Kevin Brownlow.....

Seriously, Jeff.... the Israel notes are terrific.....

[Gagman 66]

With his express consent, I am posting the following two E-mail's addressed to me, from Mr. Robert Israel himself.

The first concerns his scoring of THE BLACKBIRD. And addresses the issue's of which Wheelage, and a few others posters were perplexed about over the past few weeks on this forum. While the second E-mail concerns the issue of his potential scoring of the new restoration of King Vidor's THE BIG PARADE.

Dear "Gagman66,"

I thought that I might take a moment or two to write to you and thank you for some of the comments you have made (over these past few years) concerning my work in scoring the pre-sound era film classics. You seem to be a true lover of "silent" films and I am very glad to know that there are others who share a passion for these wonderful classics, just as I do.

I know that my scores will not always be to someone's taste, but it often amazes me how many people make comments about my music, but have never taken the time to write to me directly for some information. (I refer to a link, I received from a friend this morning, posted by the handle "wheelage"). I am not in the habit of visiting these forums (there are many friends, acquaintances and colleagues that forward these messages to me) with any frequency, nevertheless, I do get enough feedback to know that there are times when people appreciate my music and times when they do not like what they have heard: this is the nature of entertainment, and I am sure you are aware of this.

I share your opinion about THE BLACKBIRD as being one of Chaney's underrated films, particularly because the ensemble of performers are so wonderful in their roles: even Owen Moore is respectable and effective! But with concern to the music score, I know that you are familiar that I compose for many different film genres. And, although I have used a large amount of existing music in my scores, there are just as many original compositions of my own that I use. Because I compose in a style that might be considered "authentic" to the 1920s, it seems obvious to me (by many comments made by viewers) that they assume all of the music is compiled. This is not so. In the case of THE BLACKBIRD, a great deal of the score is original. The title music is my own composition, the entrance of Dan (until he is inside his rooms) is original, the Scotland Yard theme, etc... And, in the case of all of these existing pieces, I had orchestrated and re-orchestrated almost all of the score.

For anyone unfamiliar with this process, it can only be described as tremendously detail oriented, and this is not to mention the need to understand each and every instrument, and sections of the orchestra, thoroughly. It is not merely assigning notes to be played to fill in spaces or make chords happen. (And, yes, I can thank a host of other composers like Godard, Reinecke, Gabriel-Marie, Borch and many others, for their lovely music).

In the case of LA ROUE, the entire four hours and twenty minutes (except for a quote from Tschaikovsky's 1812 Overture, which I had to orchestrate and rewrite for the purpose in the film) is entirely original. But, even in the case of compiling a score, this does not mean that it is an easier or lesser job than writing original music. There are still many challenges to overcome and the need to develop serious ideas to support the film.

For example, the sequence in THE BLACKBIRD where Fifi tries to make West End Bertie flee, is my original music using themes that have been stated prior to this sequence. The effect that I wished to achieve was to bring to the fore the amazing agitation between the characters: that you can truly hear them shouting at one another (a tribute to Tod Browning's wonderful, though uneven technique, and the beautiful acting of Chaney, Adoree and Moore), and that you can feel the intense passion of all three players. I suppose it is so easy to watch that it is just as easy to criticize. In fact, I do not mind that so much, but I wish that someone would take the time to write to me and have a dialogue with me on this subject. Yes, I have a very busy schedule, but if I can help someone, I do try to make time for this. The audience for this kind of cinema is not growing as fast as it is shrinking.

At any rate, I would just like to say thank you for making the effort to express a positive point of view and I would like to wish you many more hours of pleasant viewing and listening to these wonderful classics.

Yours most truly,

Robert Israel

The folowing concerns Mr. Israel's response to my inquiry if the original 1925 Wlliam Axt- David Glenn Mendoza score of THE BIG PARADE, which He has reprised with his Orchestra's at live screeing's might be reprised and recorded on the forthcoming TCM Re-premier, (2009?), and DVD release?

Dear Jeffrey,

Thank you for your kind reply. I do appreciate it. I cannot speak for the studio in any official capacity, but I do know that Warner Brothers is considering THE BIG PARADE as a DVD release. There is nothing definite set as a release date, so all that can be said at this time is to remain patient and keep positive thoughts. Warner Brothers is very well aware of the importance of this film, but more significantly, they do consider this an important project as a DVD release. Please remember that they are, perhaps, the only major studio entity that considers its classic film library as valuable; and, this speaks volumes for those dedicated individuals that would like these titles to be released on DVD.

Off of the subject of DVD releases, but more focused on the score by William Axt and David Mendoza, it is a very fine work and does represent something unique in the area of "original" scores for films released during the 1920s. I say this because of the care with which they consummated their work. One could argue that after sound became the industry standard, that scoring practices and techniques became more sophisticated. But, one has to take into account the inherent differences between a "silent" feature and a "sound" film. Certainly, Max Steiner and Erich Wolfgang Korngold represented a new standard for film scoring (with scores for films such as KING KONG (1933), THE INFORMER (1935) and THE SEA HAWK (1941) and so forth), but they had something to look forward to that silent film scoring did not offer: their music would be recorded by an exceptional group of professionals and would be a solid representation of their labor for generations to come. In other words, spending the endless hours composing would be worth their while because they could count on the fact that their music would be an integrated part of the film for which they were composing. Please do not forget that in the live performance tradition of the 1920s, scores had a limited life span: once the film ended its run, the music usually disappeared as well. No reputable composer of the day wanted their work to disappear, despite the fact that composers such as Victor Herbert, Jerome Kern, Sigmund Romberg, and a host of others had written at least one silent film score. None of the above listed professionals wrote more than one score for a silent feature: in the case of J. Kern, I believe it was a score for a serial. The point being this: why would anyone compose a work that would be as big as an opera, only to watch it become relegated to a world of obscurity? Please note that simply because a score was written/compiled for a film in this period (an "original" score), does not mean it is always worth presenting today. There were plenty of prosaic scores from that time, and there are plenty of pedestrian scores being written today. Time was then, and shall remain, the ultimate critic.

At any rate, although Axt and Mendoza are often criticized today for many different reasons (banal, superficial, "old hat" and a host of other pejorative terms I have heard over the years), I feel that many of these opinions are unfounded, uninformed and often predicated upon ignorance. Yes, their technique was rather different, and one could even argue that Hugo Riesenfeld was superior, but I disagree. I cannot say one was better than the other: there is very little value in drawing such comparisons. But, what I can say is that the best work of these gentlemen do stand to demonstrate something of a great value to cinema history. Scores such as THE BIG PARADE and BEN-HUR are excellent, in my opinion, and show what a great understanding and mastery Axt and Mendoza possessed with regards to scoring a feature length film. One must also take into account what performance practices were in their day, and what a paying audience was expecting to hear when they attended a show at a major movie palace such as The Capitol Theatre in New York, or The Roxy, or any other flagship house. In certain respects, scoring practices in today's cinema is not all too different from the scores written/compiled eighty years ago. True, Hans Zimmer's style is based upon maximum effect without superfluous writing, but he still achieves a very clear result when supporting any given mood within a film sequence: suspense, pathos, heroics, agitation, etc...

This is a long winded way of saying, yes, I love the Axt-Mendoza score to THE BIG PARADE and I would like to make sure that it is recorded before too long. Even if there are a number of themes that were compiled from existing music for this score, their use of the material, and ability to make such unique selections, demonstrates a skill of the highest order.

Thank you, once again, for your thoughtful reply and I look forward to hearing from you again.

Yours most truly,

Robert Israel

[coopsgirl]

That's great Jeff, thanks for sharing. I often email back and forth with a couple of classic film historians and it really is neat to be able to discuss this stuff with them since they really have the inside track.

[feaito]

Jeff,

Thanks for posting the very enlightening messages written by the masterful Robert Israel. I concur that he's a class act, and that one can immediately realize it upon reading these messages. Great men are always humble and fine, down to earth people. I feel the same in regard to Mr. Brownlow and Carl Davis.

And I repeat it again: Mr. Israel did a fantastic job scoring "The Blackbird". It wouldn't have been the same film with another music.

[MissGoddess]

How marvelous, Jeffrey! I love that Mr. Israel took so much time to answer you in detail, that is wonderful. And thank you for sharing his words with us!

P.S. While still new to silents in general and their music compositions especially, I did appreciate what Israel said about composing pieces that are "authentic" to the period. To me that is significant.

[Gagman 66]

While I posted Robert Israel's comments to me, I neglected to post any of my own to him. Several people wanted to know what I had to say, so here it is.

Dear Mr. Israel,

Gagman 66 here. It is indeed an honor and a privilege to hear from you directly. Obviously I am a huge fan of your excellent work. Thank you for taking time out of your busy schedule to talk with me.

Yes, I have definitely noticed your original compositions certainly, mixed in with the Photo-play music. And I was sure that you had composed several themes for THE BLACKBIRD yourself including the main-title, and various character themes. I felt some of the comments made over the past few weeks about your scores were completely unjustified, and their was a general mis-perception among some people as to the nature of your work. So I was determined to defend you in that regard. Alas, I should not have said that your scores were made up "mostly" of photo-play movie mood music. I should have emphasized more that you are in-fact a composer, and a very gifted one in your own right. My apologies for not doing so.

I am not to sure what the story is that it took three years for THE BLACKBIRD to air on the North American TCM's, but I was determined to find out about this matter last July, and finally managed to get the broadcast on the schedule. It took a few weeks to track the movie down, but I knew that it had to be there someplace. Eventually, Charles Tabesh was able to corral it, and was considerate enough to add it to the October line-up. He already had a Chaney slated, (THE MONSTER), so I inquired if the switch could perhaps be made, and it was. I'm so glad that they finally ran the film last night. I have numerous friends all over the country that considered this the event of the year!

Since you have contacted me, I am hoping that you can shed some light on another perplexing mystery that has been plaguing me for the past three or four years. It concernes your reprisal of original 1925 William Axt-David Mendoza score to King Vidor's THE BIG PARADE which you and your Orchestra performed a handful of times in 2005, and perhaps more recently? I know the new restoration was screened at another festival sometime last year. I wish I had more details about this.

To put it moderately, I am losing all patience with Warner's that THE BIG PARADE is still not out on DVD, but even more so that no version of the film has aired at all on TCM since Memorial Day of 2004. I was told in July by Charles Tabesh that He could have run the Thames version. But He had been holding out for the Newly-mastered print, which was supposed to have been ready a long time ago for broadcast. As I'm sure you know, that hasn't happened yet. Leaving this landmark film in Limbo on TCM for the past four years!

It's my understanding that the new fine grain master struck from the long lost original camera negative is jaw-droppingly beautiful quality. So what is taking so long to get it on the air? Unfortunately, Warner's neglected to record a score back in 2005, and to the best of my knowledge they still have not recorded one yet?

My friend Jack Theakston saw a live performance with your 19 piece Orchestra at AMPAS in March of 2005, and again later in the year with You performing the entire score on a Wurlitzer. Astonishingly, He actually preferred the Axt-Mendoza original to the Carl Davis score! That sounds mighty hard to believe. Although, I am fully aware that Davis adapted several of the same themes into his own score for the Thames Silents edition produced by Kevin Brownlow, and David Gill in England in 1983. So allot of it should be quite similar.

I'll admit I am used to the Davis score and love it, If it is going to be replaced they better dang sure record the original, rather than some unbefitting modern score! That would be a desecration of a truly magnificent film. I also remember how Jack commented what an incredible improvement the new restoration was over the older Thames edition pictorially speaking.

The problem is Rodney Sauer of Mont Alto Motion Picture Orchestra, told me the chances of Warner's recording having you and your orchestra, or anyone else for that matter recreating the full original score, is probably a long shot at best? He said that the potential copyrights involved with some of the music Axt-Mendoza may have used, might make this such an expensive endeavor that Warner's may feel that it is just not worth it? I sure hope that He is wrong.

Anyway, I figure that at least 70% of the score is probably Public-Domain Material, and Davis used allot of it himself in 1983? In that respect, it's already been done once before. So I don't see what is the big deal? Also if Dr. Axt and company were partial MGM employees, (they may have been), shouldn't they have the rights to the entire score???

If we do eventually get stuck with some inferior new score to THE BIG PARADE, I would hope that they would also re-mastered the Thames version with Davis score, and put it out in a two disc set. Heck, I wouldn't mind seeing the 1931 re-issue included too, In a three disc Ultimate collection. I'm certainly growing ever more weary that this fabulous film is still not on DVD. But even more depressed that it is not on TCM, and hasn't been in quite awhile either. I still hold out hope that you will be able to re-produce, and record the Axt-Mendoza score verbatim, as it should be.

Even Charles Tabesh seemd frustrated with Warner's after seeing the film at a live event last year. Although to be be frank, I see no reason they can't run the older version in the meantime though. Especially, for the 90th Anniversary of the Armistice in November! The good news is Tabesh told me that THE BIG PARADE was almost certainly forth-coming on TCM, and DVD in 2009, for MGM's 85th Birthday Celebration. So I hope He is correct about that?

Trouble is, I heard the same thing back in 2005, for the films 80th Anniversary, that a DVD release was enamante. So I guess that I will believe it when I see it. It's frankly beyond ridiculous that the highest grossing film of the Silent era, and the movie that quite literally defined MGM prior to the release of GONE WITH THE WIND, is not on DVD! I know allot of new to Silent film fans, many who have never seen THE BIG PARADE, and are very anxious too.

I have a tendency to ramble on and on. I fear that I am doing that once again. Basically, what I intended to ask you is, are the comments of Rodney Sauer valid in terms of copyrighted material that could prevent the original score from being used on this project? Is this legitimate concern of any kind? The fact that the score was not recorded would seem to imply that it could be? I mean, for them to commission some inferior new score when the original is available to me would be a disaster, and is not doing this land-mark film it's proper justice. No young Composers on THE BIG PARADE, parish forbid! Not that I was not sadden by the demise of this annual competition. I definitely was. Any additional information that you could provide would be greatly appreciated.

In any event, I intend to fight for the score you performed to be recorded, and paired with the film no matter what it takes, So you definitely have an allay, and I have many friends that feel just as strongly about this matter as I do.

For a little more on myself, here is a link to my page on GAOH. I have well over 200 photos posted, and nearly a 100 pieces of music. It would be wonderful to have you as a member. Please feel free to join. Thank you for all your time, and keep up the great work!


http://goldenageofhollywood.ning.com/profile/TheGiant


Hope to hear from you some more very soon.


Sincerely,


Jeffrey

[Ann Harding]

I too like Robert Israel's scores, especially the two he wrote from the two Abel Gance pictures released by Flicker Alley.

But regarding the score of The Big Parade, I must admit that I love the Carl Davis one and I very much doubt that the original score could be any better. Davis probably used some of the themes but believe me the orchestration he used for them is certainly much better than the original.
Just let me give you an example: Broken Blossoms. The original score by Louis Gottschalk has been recorded countless times. But somehow the film never takes off -for me- with just that score. Then, if you watch the film with Carl Davis's re-orchestration of it, it's a different matter! He manages the moods and transitions far better than in the original one.

I love Post-Romantic music best represented by Korngold, Herrman or Rozsa. Carl Davis belongs to that same line with its use of leitmotivs, themes and large orchestra.

[Gagman 66]

Christine,


Please understand that unless they hire Carl Davis to record an extended version of his score to THE BIG PARADE, the score he did for Thames simply will not work with the new restoration. Or so I have been repeatedly told.

That is why I hope the Thames version should also be included in a DVD release. If they don't include it, at least we will have a very similar sounding score if they keep the Axt-Mendoza one. Otherwise we would be stuck with something entirely new altogether. Since 1925 numerous versions of the film have had some association with the Axt-Mendoza score, including the 1931-Western Electric Sound-Track Re-issue.

Here are a couple of the several links from the Harold Lloyd forum back in 2005, where Jack actually blasts the Carl Davis score, and praises the Axt-Mendoza one. I will try to find the other threads and post those later on today.


http://theharoldlloydcommunity.yuku.com/topic/1298

http://theharoldlloydcommunity.yuku.com/topic/948

[Ann Harding]

I think it is really a question of taste in music. I am a classical music lover and I, in general, favour orchestral scores. I have never liked very much any Movietone and Vitaphone music soundtracks. I find them patchy and frankly quite boring. But, I perfectly understand that some people might like them a lot.
I have never been disappointed by any Carl Davis score: he manages to capture the mood of a scene perfectly where other scores are often completely out of synch with the emotion on the screen. The scene in Belleau Wood (in The Big Parade) is a perfect example with an incredible mood of unrest.
But anyway, it would be great to see The Big Parade at last on DVD!!!!

[Gagman 66]

Christine,

I'm sorry the first link was incorrect. I have fixed it, and it should work fine now, It's difficult to see that small print sometimes.

Here is the correct URL:

http://theharoldlloydcommunity.yuku.com/topic/1298