John Gilbert's Sound Career on TCM

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Post by drednm »

I think Chaplin's real love may have been Edna Purviance
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Post by charliechaplinfan »

Here's a link to the book I've just read.

http://www.alibris.com/booksearch?qwork ... ting*title

I like your point about Edna Purviance. Rather than hijack John Gilbert's thread I'll start a thread about Charlie's loves :wink:
Failure is unimportant. It takes courage to make a fool of yourself - Charlie Chaplin
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Re: John Gilbert's Sound Career on TCM

Post by feaito »

Yesterday I watched "Downstairs" (1932) -Thanks Alison- and I was completely blown away by the adult nature of the film, how fresh the story was -so un-clichéd- the fabulous performances of John Gilbert and Paul Lukas and particularly by Gilbert's courage for having tackled such an unpleasant role, being a first magnitude Romantic Idol; I understand he even was given credit for the story.

This film is as Pre-Code as you can get; the role played by Gilbert could well be compared to shameless Lily Powers in "Baby Face" (1933), with the only difference (that makes Gilbert's film even better, more daring and bold) that his character is not redeemed at all at the end; quite to the contrary, he continues with "his business". He could well be -also- the male equivalent of a voracious Pre-Code Jean Harlow (especially in "Red-Headed Woman" 1932)

I wished this film was properly released as part of a Pre-Code Hollywood Boxed Set, because it deserves it. It's one of the best Pre-Codes I've ever seen and arguably John Gilbert's best talking picture. His presence, his voice, his timing, his nonchalantly, everything is perfect in him. He's absolutely brilliant.

On the other hand, Paul Lukas, playing the noble, subdued, humble, stoic butler of the Aristocratic Household he's worked in all of his life, is equally fantastic and a very fine contrast to Gilbert's bold chauffeur.
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Re: John Gilbert's Sound Career on TCM

Post by charliechaplinfan »

I'm so glad you liked it Fernando. Downstairs is a fine film and shows what he could have been capable of both as an actor and writer if he'd have been given a proper chance.
Failure is unimportant. It takes courage to make a fool of yourself - Charlie Chaplin
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Re: John Gilbert's Sound Career on TCM

Post by feaito »

charliechaplinfan wrote:Downstairs is a fine film and shows what he could have been capable of both as an actor and writer if he'd have been given a proper chance.
You are so right there Alison. Talk about missed opportunities and his early death.
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Re: John Gilbert's Sound Career on TCM

Post by feaito »

I watched yet another excellent John Gilbert film thanks to Christine: "Fast Workers" (1933). He's again superb! He plays a nonchalant, tough, confident character and seems younger than his actual age in this snappy Precoder which looks more like a Warners film than an MGM feature. The film has comedy, sarcasm, sex, drama, pathos, horror...It's an offbeat blend for sure. Gilbert and Robt Armstrong are pals -construction workers-; Gilbert is the wise guy who knows all about dames and Armstrong can be easily had. Enter Mae Clarke who's terrific as one brassy, attractive dame who gets involved with both men. A truly underrated film & another movie that is the living proof of the talented actor that Gilbert was and that he was much more than the matinée idol and dashing lover of some of his Silent films -like Bardelys-...well he demonstrated it in "The Show", "The Big Parade".... I can't stop thinking that he could have been a greater star during the Talkies, like Ronald Colman. And Gilbert was also very versatile and well suited to play cads or tough guys, just the kind of roles that made Gable a star. So sad to think about lost opportunities! But "Downstairs" and "Fast Workers" are the living testament of the very fine actor Gilbert was during the talkies.
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Re: John Gilbert's Sound Career on TCM

Post by ziggy 6708 »

Any recommendations on what to record from 'John Gilbert Day' 8-24 ??? :?
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Re: John Gilbert's Sound Career on TCM

Post by moira finnie »

Of John Gilbert's sound films, I would strongly suggest not missing the wonderfully written and expertly acted Downstairs (1932), directed by Monta Bell, being shown at 6:30 PM EDT that day.
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(L-R) Virginia Bruce and Olga Baclanova with John Gilbert in Downstairs.

Gilbert wrote the pre-code story, and he gives a superb, slyly malicious performance as an amoral chauffeur on the make with everyone below and above stairs. Set in post-WWI Germany, the movie also features Virginia Bruce as a naive, sexually inexperienced maid (Bruce married Gilbert after appearing in this with him) and Paul Lukas, as a staid, repressed butler. The marriage of these two characters opens the story. Olga Baclanova also shines as an amorous baroness married to the rather obtuse Reginald Owen. Gilbert had hopes of becoming a writer and director, (he'd directed a few silents and worked with Maurice Tourneur for a time). If this story is an example of his storytelling talent, his early death was even more of a loss than previously believed.

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John Gilbert as "the master of disguise," Chéri-Bibi, in The Phantom of Paris. Love a guy in a monocle!

I have not seen either The Phantom of Paris (1931) at 5pm EDT or Gilbert's last film, The Captain Hates the Sea (1934), scheduled for 4:00 AM EDT on Aug. 25th. Everything I've read about The Phantom of Paris (1931), taken from a Gaston Leroux novel, (The Phantom of the Opera author), makes me eager to see this, even if some don't think much of it. Many other people cite The Phantom of Paris as Gilbert's most dashing vehicle in the sound era, allowing him to display his stylish romantic plumage for a final time. At the time of the release, a few critics admitted that Gilbert "had finally learned to speak" on camera, though the European-flavored film found more success abroad, it was a bit too late to salvage Gilbert's career. This movie also appeals to me because it casts him opposite an almost unremembered actor whose talent and capacity for self-destruction, some believe, paralleled that of John Barrymore, though Ian Keith seems to have never quite scaled the same heights, (or is it depths?). Despite this, I am interested in seeing this actor as Gilbert's nemesis in this movie, though perhaps Keith is best remembered as John Wilkes Booth in D.W. Griffith's Abraham Lincoln, as Garbo's annoyingly persistent lover in Queen Christina and as Pete, the surprisingly eloquent but doomed tosspot in Nightmare Alley (1947).

I'm not expecting much from The Captain Hates the Sea (1934), but there is certainly some poignancy in this final role as a drunk being played by John Gilbert. (Besides, how often do you expect to see Gilbert sharing the screen with The Three Stooges!?)

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Though it was a relatively minor effort, my interest in Mervyn LeRoy's early career led me to see Gentleman's Fate (1931), scheduled for 3:15 PM EDT, which features Gilbert in an unusually gritty setting with other silent era actors making the transition to talkies, including Louis Wolheim, Anita Page, Marie Prevost and Leila Hyams. I wrote about this movie here if you'd like more info.

None of the films that I've seen of Gilbert from the sound era seem to have any problems with his voice being recorded, though I do feel that when he was ill at ease in some of his sound films, such as Queen Christina, he fell into a somewhat mannered, old-fashioned and flamboyant way of acting. That being said, there is none of this evident in his very modern and naturalistic work in Downstairs, Fast Workers (not being shown this August, but great, cynical fun and an occasional movie on the TCM schedule), or for much of Gentleman's Fate. Those are just my reactions to these various movies which have really helped me begin to appreciate this actor beyond the silent era. I hope that you'll offer your thoughts along with anyone else who is interested in this actor's work. I'm so glad that TCM is devoting an entire day to this interesting actor. Below are all the scheduled films and times (EDT) for Tuesday, August 24th:

24 Tuesday
6:00 AM
The Busher (1919)
In this silent film, a minor-league baseball player gets his shot at the big leagues. Cast: Charles Ray, Colleen Moore, John Gilbert. Dir: Jerome Storm. BW-55 mins, TV-G

7:00 AM
He Who Gets Slapped (1924)
In this silent film, a scientist flees his tragic past to become a circus clown. Cast: Lon Chaney, Norma Shearer, John Gilbert. Dir: Victor Seastrom. BW-72 mins, TV-G

8:30 AM
Merry Widow, The (1925)
In this silent film, a European nobleman courts the wealthy American widow he once loved to save his bankrupt homeland, Cast: Mae Murray, John Gilbert, Tully Marshall. Dir: Erich von Stroheim. BW-137 mins, TV-PG

11:00 AM
Show, The (1927)
In this silent film, a sideshow dancer secretly loves the show's amoral barker. Cast: John Gilbert, Renee Adoree, Lionel Barrymore. Dir: Tod Browning. BW-76 mins, TV-14

12:30 PM
Desert Nights (1929)
In this silent film, diamond robbers get caught in a violent sandstorm. Cast: John Gilbert, Mary Nolan, Ernest Torrence. Dir: William Nigh. BW-62 mins, TV-G

1:45 PM
Way For A Sailor (1930)
A devoted sailor jeopardizes his love life for love of the sea. Cast: John Gilbert, Wallace Beery, Leila Hyams. Dir: Sam Wood. BW-85 mins, TV-G

3:15 PM
Gentleman's Fate (1931)
A bootlegger falls apart when his wife leaves him. Cast: John Gilbert, Louis Wolheim, Leila Hyams. Dir: Mervyn LeRoy. BW-93 mins, TV-PG

5:00 PM
Phantom of Paris, The (1931)
A magician is charged with killing his fiancee's father. Cast: John Gilbert, Leila Hyams, Ian Keith. Dir: John S. Robertson. BW-74 mins, TV-PG

6:30 PM
Downstairs (1932)
An evil chauffeur seduces and blackmails his way through high society. Cast: John Gilbert, Virginia Bruce, Paul Lukas. Dir: Monta Bell. BW-78 mins, TV-G

8:00 PM
Big Parade, The (1925)
In this silent film, a young innocent enlists for World War I service but soon learns the horrors of war. Cast: John Gilbert, Renee Adoree, Karl Dane. Dir: King Vidor. BW-126 mins, TV-G

10:15 PM
Bardelys the Magnificent (1926)
A notorious womanizer falls for the woman he has bet he can trick into marriage. Cast: John Gilbert, Eleanor Boardman, Roy D'Arcy. Dir: King Vidor. BW-90 mins, TV-PG

12:00 AM
Flesh And The Devil (1926)
In this silent film, a femme fatale comes between childhood friends. Cast: Greta Garbo, John Gilbert, Lars Hanson. Dir: Clarence Brown. BW-113 mins, TV-PG

2:00 AM
Queen Christina (1933)
Romantic tale of the 17th-century Swedish queen and her romance with a Spanish diplomat. Cast: Greta Garbo, John Gilbert, Lewis Stone. Dir: Rouben Mamoulian. BW-99 mins, TV-G, CC

4:00 AM
Captain Hates the Sea, The (1934)
A bond thief, a private eye and a drunken reporter wreak havoc on an ocean voyage. Cast: Victor McLaglen, Wynne Gibson, John Gilbert. Dir: Lewis Milestone. BW-85 mins, TV-G
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Re: John Gilbert's Sound Career on TCM

Post by drednm »

I rank John Gilbert's performance in The Phantom of Paris to be one of his best in talkies. But by the time he finally landed a solid acting role, his talkie career was beyond repair. As for The Captain Hates the Sea it shows that Gilbert could have been a solid character actor as he handles the comic irony beautifully here (think William Powell). In his final film, he gets (as I remember) 4th or 5th billing.
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Re: John Gilbert's Sound Career on TCM

Post by drednm »

Too bad TCM didn't land His Glorious Night for John Gilbert's big day. I'd love to see it and judge it for myself.
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Re: John Gilbert's Sound Career on TCM

Post by moira finnie »

drednm wrote:I rank John Gilbert's performance in The Phantom of Paris to be one of his best in talkies. But by the time he finally landed a solid acting role, his talkie career was beyond repair. As for The Captain Hates the Sea it shows that Gilbert could have been a solid character actor as he handles the comic irony beautifully here (think William Powell). In his final film, he gets (as I remember) 4th or 5th billing.
Oh, gee---that comparison to Powell makes me know that I'll have to crank up the DVR for each of these movies.
drednm wrote:Too bad TCM didn't land His Glorious Night for John Gilbert's big day. I'd love to see it and judge it for myself.
I don't know if I really want to see this one. My memories of watching John Barrymore's demise on film in self-parodying roles in movies such as The Great Profile (1940) and Playmates (1941) are pretty painful. I'm not sure that I'm up for the spectacle of Gilbert saying the lines "I love you, I love you, I love you..." ad nauseum...though I am curious if Catherine Dale Owen is as bad an actress as everyone says.

I've read the rumors about the allegedly deliberate misuse of the primitive voice recording equipment, but, having seen Lionel Barrymore's other directorial efforts, outright sabotage of the film may not have been necessary. Of course, it might be fun to see His Glorious Night and Singin' in the Rain as a double feature sometime!
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Re: John Gilbert's Sound Career on TCM

Post by JackFavell »

Moira - thanks for those splendid comments on Gilbert. I am looking forward to the whole day, just to see him get some love and respect and AIRTIME!

I am now looking forward to the movies you singled out even more.

As for His Glorious Night, I couldn't agree more. I don't think I want to see it, even for a laugh. Lionel Barrymore was a really really bad director. Guilty Hands was his LAST directing job, and you would think that he would have gotten a handle on the job by that time. It is the most awful thing I have ever seen, with characters jumping from one place to another, and the most stodgy and uncomfortable line readings imaginable. Ugh.
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Re: John Gilbert's Sound Career on TCM

Post by drednm »

Well... I don't want to watch His Glorious Night to laugh at it. I just want to judge for myself. The almos equally maligned Redemption is creaky in that early talkie way, but Gilbert still has some wonderful moments even in an admittedly "not very good" film.

Plus I think these early traditional John Gilbert roles in talkies are transitional in that HE KNEW these kinds of roles didn't work for him in talkies. I think it's important to see these to know how damned good he is in later talkies even if the films themselves are not A productions.

But that's just me.... I want to see everything!
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Re: John Gilbert's Sound Career on TCM

Post by moira finnie »

I was wondering if anyone had seen Way for a Sailor (1930), which is on at 1:45 PM pm the 24th, and then checked around the internet for more info. Drednm, I hope that you don't mind my drawing attention to this, but I must mention that your terrific, balanced review on IMDb has really made me want to see this one.

Drednm, I don't think laughter would really be the likely reaction of any viewer to His Glorious Night--if we had a chance to see it, (not that Sony is likely to unearth it *sigh*, even though it has reportedly been preserved and was seen at the National Film Theatre in London in the '80s). I suspect most of us would look at it with a mixture of trepidation and curiosity--and probably some sadness. I just hate to see actors I'm fond of being ill-used or their own worst enemy.

JF, I haven't seen every film that Lionel Barrymore directed, but Madame X really made me suspect that the man was probably overwhelmed and temperamentally ill-suited to the job. Guilty Hands had some brief flashes of odd psychological interest, but I forgot that I saw Ten Cents a Dance (1931), which wasn't too terrible thanks to some pre-code sauciness and that newly unearthed diamond in the rough, Barbara Stanwyck. Still, I love Lionel as an actor far more, even if he was sometimes hammy--occasionally great, and nearly always watchable.
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Re: John Gilbert's Sound Career on TCM

Post by feaito »

I agree with you Moira in that Gilbert's performance in "Queen Christina" (1933), perhaps his best known talking picture, is not among his best...and having witnessed his huge talent at full display in "Downstairs" (1932) and "Fast Workers" (1933), I rank both as his best Talkies and among his very best films. I repeat what I said, there was something in these two roles that made me think of Gable's persona in the early thirties. Gilbert could have well played some of the tough roles assigned to Gable; after watching both aforementioned films I don't doubt it. Gilbert could play tough "Gable" roles but looking like Ronald Colman :wink: ; there's a big physical resemblance between both actors.

As for "Way for a Sailor" (1930) I watched it a couple of years ago or perhaps more... and I enjoyed it very much. Gilbert plays a tough sailor and he fares well -IMO- in this minor but good film. He has some wonderful chemistry with Leila Hyams.
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