MrsL, exactly. The WHY is what I'm curious about. Why do I find some musicals either disinteresting (almost offending, pushing me a way, ewww, no, yuck!) while others are just fine, and another set pulls me into their orbit.
Your Horror Movie comment is parallel to mine - THEM has such terrible monsters - jeeper, even for the day, the puppeteering was not wonderful. Yet, it doesn't make me degrade the movie one bit. Are my expectations of the monsters so low? And why? I mean, THEM has one of the best opening-sequences in all drama-suspense-horror-crime films - "Middle of the day, cops doing ordinary patrol work, then a radio call, and then the little girl. Then more eerie things happen..."
So, is the bait on that hook SO GOOD that the weak monsters can't possibly derail Whitmore, Arness, Gwynn & Co? Apparently. Whitmore seems to do that for me, though. Gwynn's such a favorite actor, too, and Arness is playing this big dufus of a character ("Oh boy, if she's a doctor, then I'm gonna get sick real quick..." he he he he).
I wonder about SEVEN BRIDES because maybe I don't like the music. Maybe that's it. Whereas I really like Donald O'Connor. Him breaking out in a full orchestra song & comedy dance routine is just fine.
BRIGADOON follows most of the tenets that make me avoid musicals, but I like it. Why? Because I like Van Johnson in just about anything? Gene Kelly's a favorite, too. Is that the issue that pushes me into Likes & Dislikes - the Stars? The cast? Could be.
(My wife and I have been arguing these points for years, and probably for years to come. No answer between either of us - "Why do we like something?" is a constant source of study.)
It's official - we're collecting Musicals
Re: It's official - we're collecting Musicals
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Wow: That is a real kick!!!! A big part of Why is who, as you said, which is probably why I am not a big fan of Brigadoon except when Kelly is not on screen. I love the fantasy 100 year story, and Cyd, Van, and the Highland dancers, I could listen and watch 'Go Home to Bonnie Jean' all day, but when Kelly opens his mouth, I want to turn the volume way down.
On the other hand, Howard Keel makes my head reel almost as much as Mitchum. I also like Gordon MacRae. It never dawned on me that I shy away from Singing In the Rain, and all those other Gene Kelly musicals, but if he's there, I ain't. There is always at least one or two numbers in a musical that I don't care for, but on the whole, I generally like all the other songs. This really surprises me because I've known for years that who is in the movie is my gauge for if I want to see it. Jupiter's Darling is another that is not that good, but with Keel, Ester Williams, and especially Marge and Gower Champion, to me it's super.
As a kid, I lived for music. When I was five, I knew all the words to The Wayward Wind, Ivory Tower, and Wanted, and could sing along (on key) with the radio. My Dad said he never heard a kid who could keep on key like me, yet when I was older and wanted to study music and acting . . . "they were not nice careers for nice girls!!!"
If nothing else, this thread has opened my eyes to a surprising fact about myself. I guess it's true that you're never too old to learn!!!!
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Wow: That is a real kick!!!! A big part of Why is who, as you said, which is probably why I am not a big fan of Brigadoon except when Kelly is not on screen. I love the fantasy 100 year story, and Cyd, Van, and the Highland dancers, I could listen and watch 'Go Home to Bonnie Jean' all day, but when Kelly opens his mouth, I want to turn the volume way down.
On the other hand, Howard Keel makes my head reel almost as much as Mitchum. I also like Gordon MacRae. It never dawned on me that I shy away from Singing In the Rain, and all those other Gene Kelly musicals, but if he's there, I ain't. There is always at least one or two numbers in a musical that I don't care for, but on the whole, I generally like all the other songs. This really surprises me because I've known for years that who is in the movie is my gauge for if I want to see it. Jupiter's Darling is another that is not that good, but with Keel, Ester Williams, and especially Marge and Gower Champion, to me it's super.
As a kid, I lived for music. When I was five, I knew all the words to The Wayward Wind, Ivory Tower, and Wanted, and could sing along (on key) with the radio. My Dad said he never heard a kid who could keep on key like me, yet when I was older and wanted to study music and acting . . . "they were not nice careers for nice girls!!!"
If nothing else, this thread has opened my eyes to a surprising fact about myself. I guess it's true that you're never too old to learn!!!!
.
Anne
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charliechaplinfan
- Posts: 9040
- Joined: January 15th, 2008, 9:49 am
Re: It's official - we're collecting Musicals
Ollie, there are some musical stars that can sell the whole thing to me, the first one is Gene Kelly, I just love his dancing, along with Fred Astaire they are my favorite musical stars, I'd watch any film to see them, I prefer watching Gene dance to Fred but it's like comparing apples and bananas, it can't be done, they are both excellent in their own way. Fred Astaire has a better singing voice than Gene Kelly. Judy Garland can sell a musical to me just because she's part of it. Cyd Charisse is another, I love to see her dance, forget the other partners Gene and Fred had, Cyd is the tops, for me.
I think the musical poll will give you a good idea about what films to start collecting, there is a wide variety of opinion on there.
I think the musical poll will give you a good idea about what films to start collecting, there is a wide variety of opinion on there.
Failure is unimportant. It takes courage to make a fool of yourself - Charlie Chaplin
Re: It's official - we're collecting Musicals
Alison, I do believe we are related somehow! Cyd Charisse is my absolute favorite in musicals. (as in my avatar!)
Her ballet in Silk Stockings makes me cry every time I see it, it is so achingly beautiful. Gene Kelley's dance in the rain brings on the tears, too. I always seem to cry when I see true beauty (they almost asked me to leave the local art gallery
)
Her ballet in Silk Stockings makes me cry every time I see it, it is so achingly beautiful. Gene Kelley's dance in the rain brings on the tears, too. I always seem to cry when I see true beauty (they almost asked me to leave the local art gallery
)Re: It's official - we're collecting Musicals
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I feel so traitorous when I talk about Kelly, I mean, he was a great dancer, but he is so egotistical when he talks either in person or in some of the documentaries he's hosted. When he sings he sounds like he has a frog in his throat, but what really gets me about him, and just watch next time you see him dance with a partner, he keeps his partner kind of back. I don't mean in the back of the stage, just that he dances more to the forefront, and leaves them as a kind of balance beam (just a piece of scenery). Take the picture of Fred and Cyd, Kelly would be facing her with his arms around her, and his leg across hers, i.e. he 'blankets' his partners. In the 'Good Mornin' routine of Singing in the Rain, all three have a small solo but Kelly's is twice as long as Dons' or Debbies', and the same goes for the 'diction' routine. I just see Fred as so much more 'giving' to his partners. He makes them the showcase instead of just himself.
Am I totally wrong, or has anyone else noticed any kind of selfishness on Kelly's part? I would like to know if I'm being excessively critical.
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I feel so traitorous when I talk about Kelly, I mean, he was a great dancer, but he is so egotistical when he talks either in person or in some of the documentaries he's hosted. When he sings he sounds like he has a frog in his throat, but what really gets me about him, and just watch next time you see him dance with a partner, he keeps his partner kind of back. I don't mean in the back of the stage, just that he dances more to the forefront, and leaves them as a kind of balance beam (just a piece of scenery). Take the picture of Fred and Cyd, Kelly would be facing her with his arms around her, and his leg across hers, i.e. he 'blankets' his partners. In the 'Good Mornin' routine of Singing in the Rain, all three have a small solo but Kelly's is twice as long as Dons' or Debbies', and the same goes for the 'diction' routine. I just see Fred as so much more 'giving' to his partners. He makes them the showcase instead of just himself.
Am I totally wrong, or has anyone else noticed any kind of selfishness on Kelly's part? I would like to know if I'm being excessively critical.
.
Anne
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charliechaplinfan
- Posts: 9040
- Joined: January 15th, 2008, 9:49 am
Re: It's official - we're collecting Musicals
I think he had a decent size ego but I can forgive him.
It's interesting, what you perceive as him 'blanketing' his partner I see as a more possessive style of dancing, as in possessing the woman. I think Gene Kelly's dancing is a lot more earthy and sexual than Fred's, Fred's is more refined, perhaps a bit more romantic. Looking at the bigger musicals of the 1940's and 1950's with Fred there was quite a big age gap between him and his female partners and his style of dancing suited those movies and partners, whereas Gene was a different build, a completely different type and the difference of styles allowed them both to prosper at MGM.
I think Debbie Reynolds did a marvellous job in Singin' In The Rain, considering she had never danced before. Gene was the bigger star and deserved a bigger slice of the dancing and perhaps because Donald O'Connor was just as talented it was choreographed in that way.
I can see how what I love about his dancing might not be someone else's cup of tea. As you can guess, I'm a big Kelly fan.
It's interesting, what you perceive as him 'blanketing' his partner I see as a more possessive style of dancing, as in possessing the woman. I think Gene Kelly's dancing is a lot more earthy and sexual than Fred's, Fred's is more refined, perhaps a bit more romantic. Looking at the bigger musicals of the 1940's and 1950's with Fred there was quite a big age gap between him and his female partners and his style of dancing suited those movies and partners, whereas Gene was a different build, a completely different type and the difference of styles allowed them both to prosper at MGM.
I think Debbie Reynolds did a marvellous job in Singin' In The Rain, considering she had never danced before. Gene was the bigger star and deserved a bigger slice of the dancing and perhaps because Donald O'Connor was just as talented it was choreographed in that way.
I can see how what I love about his dancing might not be someone else's cup of tea. As you can guess, I'm a big Kelly fan.
Failure is unimportant. It takes courage to make a fool of yourself - Charlie Chaplin
Re: It's official - we're collecting Musicals
I find Astaire and Bing to be off-putting. Their faces are not appealing to me. I think that's why I don't like them. I can understand others who criticize a personality, therefore. Bing's Bob Hope films are fun for me, however, and in THE PRINCESS & THE PIRATE (Hope and Virginia Mayo), Bing's last second appearance is SO PERFECT for that film. How can I dislike him when it's exactly THAT principle which makes that film's ending so perfect?!!
I enjoy HARD DAY'S NIGHT except for the musical parts of the film. Where they're staged with backdrop music. When they're playing their music, that's great fun.
This seems to be a key to my accepting a musical - I seem to prefer the musical numbers to be intentionally staged. I still accept Dorothy leaning against the haystack singing about rainbows, or dancing down yellow brick roads with some other chaps. I really enjoy Audrey singing Moon River, although I much prefer the Real Audrey strumming a Real Guitar doing such a beautiful song so simply and so genuinely. Perfection in voices and orchestration are fine, but there is something about Genuineness that is never outdone by Mere Perfection.
I enjoy HARD DAY'S NIGHT except for the musical parts of the film. Where they're staged with backdrop music. When they're playing their music, that's great fun.
This seems to be a key to my accepting a musical - I seem to prefer the musical numbers to be intentionally staged. I still accept Dorothy leaning against the haystack singing about rainbows, or dancing down yellow brick roads with some other chaps. I really enjoy Audrey singing Moon River, although I much prefer the Real Audrey strumming a Real Guitar doing such a beautiful song so simply and so genuinely. Perfection in voices and orchestration are fine, but there is something about Genuineness that is never outdone by Mere Perfection.
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Uncle Stevie
- Posts: 461
- Joined: April 15th, 2010, 10:15 am
- Location: Bloomfield, New Jersey - USA
Re: It's official - we're collecting Musicals
We are back to the old controversy of “what is a musical”? There are Busby Berkley staged musicals with prolonged dance numbers involving hundreds of performers. There are West Side Story musicals where every 6 minutes someone bursts in to song. Then there is my favorite type of musical where a very good singer, male and or female performs several songs throughout the movie. Broadway style musicals fall into the mixed category of a little of everything.
My personal love is the Female singer who has 4-6 numbers throughout the movie but is involved in a plot. The plot is often weak but it is at least a story. My favorite performers are Deanna Durbin, Kathryn Grayson, Jeanette MacDonald, Grace Moore, Jane Powell, and Lily Pons from the operatic group. From the pop genre I like Bette Grable, Doris Day, June Allyson, Marilyn Monroe Debbie Reynolds, and others I cannot think of at this moment. I also like “star” dancers who also sing as well as dance and many of them used “dubbed” voices. Such as Cyd Charisse, Vera Ellen, Rita Hayworth, and actually Bette Grable fall into this category. Ann Miller and Elanore Powell are very good dancers but fail to hold a script in the air. Specialty performers like Jane Russell and Marilyn Monroe bring a bright spot to a movie just as long as it is a bright musical. Both of those women turn me off in dramas.
My love is for the happy musical that always has a happy ending. Fred Astaire and Gene Kelly do not entice me in their movies; It is the women that make the movie. I love their dancing but could never understand Fred as a leading love interest. His voice is crude and he certainly is not good looking. Even Frank Sinatra and Mario Lanza could not carry a musical without a star lady in the lead.
As I previously said, I love operatic singing ladies. They bring a sense of professional excitement to a movie and when they sing they exude a feeling of complete control of the script and movie plot. Deanna Durbin, Kathryn Grayson, Jeanette MacDonald, Grace Moore, Jane Powell, and Lily Pons all were the stars of their movies they took over. And I loved it.
This is all my opinion and I hope you understand my message.
Uncle Stevie
My personal love is the Female singer who has 4-6 numbers throughout the movie but is involved in a plot. The plot is often weak but it is at least a story. My favorite performers are Deanna Durbin, Kathryn Grayson, Jeanette MacDonald, Grace Moore, Jane Powell, and Lily Pons from the operatic group. From the pop genre I like Bette Grable, Doris Day, June Allyson, Marilyn Monroe Debbie Reynolds, and others I cannot think of at this moment. I also like “star” dancers who also sing as well as dance and many of them used “dubbed” voices. Such as Cyd Charisse, Vera Ellen, Rita Hayworth, and actually Bette Grable fall into this category. Ann Miller and Elanore Powell are very good dancers but fail to hold a script in the air. Specialty performers like Jane Russell and Marilyn Monroe bring a bright spot to a movie just as long as it is a bright musical. Both of those women turn me off in dramas.
My love is for the happy musical that always has a happy ending. Fred Astaire and Gene Kelly do not entice me in their movies; It is the women that make the movie. I love their dancing but could never understand Fred as a leading love interest. His voice is crude and he certainly is not good looking. Even Frank Sinatra and Mario Lanza could not carry a musical without a star lady in the lead.
As I previously said, I love operatic singing ladies. They bring a sense of professional excitement to a movie and when they sing they exude a feeling of complete control of the script and movie plot. Deanna Durbin, Kathryn Grayson, Jeanette MacDonald, Grace Moore, Jane Powell, and Lily Pons all were the stars of their movies they took over. And I loved it.
This is all my opinion and I hope you understand my message.
Uncle Stevie
Uncle Stevie
"Great Marriages Are Made In Heaven,
So Is Thunder and Lightning"
"Great Marriages Are Made In Heaven,
So Is Thunder and Lightning"