ghosts

[melwalton]

Saw this on another site: DO YOU BELIEVE IN GHOSTs? I replied thusly:

The question should NOT be, 'ARE there ghosts? (of course there are!)
The question should be, WHAT ARE THE GHOSTS?
A manifestation caused by a overactive imagination (especially in young children or a sick person hallucinating? ( Some people see religious faces in clouds.

Could it be psychic energy that remains after an act of violence?
If so, why has it not dissipated?
How about psychokinesis?

People tend to think ;spirits of the dead when they hear the word ghosts but that seems the least likely.
The person who posterd the topic is doing some research of which I'd love to hear the results but I couldn;t get bach to him / her, .... mel

[traceyk]

Interesting. I'm still undecided, despite strange experiences in an old house I once lived in. It was built in 1880 and we did a lot of renovations. The first year we lived there my son (who was about 3) would occaisionally ask me about the "blonde man on the stairs." Needless to say, I never saw anything, but they say small children are more perceptive, so who knows. I always felt like someone was following too closely behind me on the stairs, but only when I was going up them, never down. The rocker in my daughter's room would rock by itself (it had belonged to my grandmother who had died not long before) when she cried and would stop after I picked her up. This stopped once she got big enough to sleep through the night. Small items would go missing and then turn up exactly where they'd been left. It became a joke--I'd say, "OK not funny--give it back" and voila! there it would be, right back where it was supposed to be.

Were these things ghosts? I don't know. I'd like to think maybe the rocking chair was grandma watching over us for a little while.

[Synnove]

That's eerie, traceyk!

I haven't experienced anything like that, but I have family members who have. My mother and my aunt have had frequent encounters with ghosts. I wonder what the explanation for it would be if it wasn't real. It's interesting. I don't know what to think either.

[Mr. O'Brady]

People believe what they want to believe. Get some "experts" to come up with the most "haunted" location, put me there with no lights for a week, and I'll come out unscathed and unbelieving. Same reason I don't bother watching horror flicks, my imagination just doesn't lean that way, so there's no heart-pounding here when others are hiding their eyes. My skepticism goes back to my childhood, when my dad told me about visiting his aunt the "medium" and watching her con the unfortunate out of their money.

[mrsl]

Gee Tracey, you gave me goosebumps, especially with the blonde man. The rocking chair could have been grandma, but with things missing, then found, whoa, that would be fright city for me.

Anne

[jdb1]

People believe what they want to believe. Get some "experts" to come up with the most "haunted" location, put me there with no lights for a week, and I'll come out unscathed and unbelieving. Same reason I don't bother watching horror flicks, my imagination just doesn't lean that way, so there's no heart-pounding here when others are hiding their eyes. My skepticism goes back to my childhood, when my dad told me about visiting his aunt the "medium" and watching her con the unfortunate out of their money.

Unfortunate, but then there are fakes in all professions, and I don't think that will make me avoid seeking out expert assistance if I need it.

I've never had a ghostly experience, but I have had plenty of experiences which make me think that there is more going on in the universe than only that which is observable in front of my face. I don't believe any of the staged nonsense that is fed to us on TV (those "my doghouse is haunted" shows), but I also don't want to dismiss out of hand anyone else's metaphysical experiences. There's lots of expended energy floating around out there seeking a place to reform, and some of it used to be what animated living creatures. The ancients understood in their own way what we now call the conservation of energy, and they created the concept of reincarnation to explain it. Carl Sagan liked to call it "star stuff." Who is to say definitively that it doesn't affect us in some way? I'm not about to spend my days in front of a crystal ball, checking my horoscope every hour, and wearing an inverted pyramid on my head. But I am pointing out that just because an explanation makes one uncomfortable doesn't make it untrue.

[melwalton]

I know it's traditional. It's always puzzled me, why do ghosts supposedly only appear in the dark? I can't see any reason for it.
I once knew a fervent believer who stated that ghosts (spiritts of the dead ) couldn't talk because their vocal chords had deteriorated, Honest!
I didn't press it, that was enough for me. .... mel

[melwalton]

Hi, Judy.
That 'expert assistance' puzzled me .(I know, I'm dense)
From what source? For what cause? With what expected results?

I'll guess, you were not talking some form of exorcism,

I'm trying to work it out but off hand I'd say reincarnation was a mathematical impossibility. .... mel

[bryce]

Hi Mel. Interesting question. You can paint me into the 'boring corner' over there as a non-believer in ghosts. I put them in the overactive imagination, sickly (or induced) hallucinations and electromagnetic sensitivity (such as many animals possess) categories. Regarding acts of violence, I chalk that up to instinct, much in the same way that many animals can instinctively detect that which we consciously cannot. I am sure that many, many times in all of our lives we have walked over someone's 'grave' and it is the subconscious acknowledgment of clues sensed but not knowingly processed that give us the chills. There's a hundred thousand years or more of instinct that we actively suppress on a daily basis, but we can't shun it all.

As to why ghosts almost always 'come out' at night, I'd say that's simply because every chain in our evolution have been diurnal, and as such we possess an instinctive distrust of the dark.

I believe in what I can see and feel, that which is tangible and real. I don't believe in any of the metaphysical hogwash, that all the world is simply perspective and opinion and anything is real so long as you believe in it. Those mentalities belong in the movies. Everything we chalk up to 'ghosts' can be explained scientifically. I think it's just my skeptical side that won't let my mind be subjected to whimsy, however exciting the imagined might be.

That doesn't mean I want to trample on anyone else's experiences; quite the opposite, in fact. Stories like Tracey's are incredible to read and hear, and some of my favorite movies and books (such as WLT: A Radio Romance) feature ghosts (or aliens or any other flights of fancy) because I can have no ghostly 'fun' of my own!

[Synnove]

People believe what they want to believe. Get some "experts" to come up with the most "haunted" location, put me there with no lights for a week, and I'll come out unscathed and unbelieving. Same reason I don't bother watching horror flicks, my imagination just doesn't lean that way, so there's no heart-pounding here when others are hiding their eyes. My skepticism goes back to my childhood, when my dad told me about visiting his aunt the "medium" and watching her con the unfortunate out of their money.

Not every priest is a televangelist though, and I think the same holds true for mediums. I'm sure there are some out there who actually believe in what they are doing. But the explanation for seeing ghosts that you give is certainly logical, I think it might be true even though I'm not yet sure what I believe. What is reality, though? It's what you make of it. My mother "wanted" to talk to her grandmother, and she did, according to her experience. It was good enough for her.

[jdb1]

Hi, Judy.
That 'expert assistance' puzzled me .(I know, I'm dense)
From what source? For what cause? With what expected results?

I'll guess, you were not talking some form of exorcism,

I'm trying to work it out but off hand I'd say reincarnation was a mathematical impossibility. .... mel

Mel, what I meant was that there are charlatans in every profession, but just because, for example, there are fake doctors doesn't mean I won't consult a doctor when I need one (and I hope the one I consult is a real doctor!)

Bryce - I think that many of the things you list - like electromagnetic and subconscious phenomena - are indeed what some people like to call "ghosts." The idea of ghosts is just one more way to try to explain that which is so hard to grasp without concrete evidence. It's a question of terminology, and some people, who can't or won't delve further, prefer to run with the idea that there are what they call ghosts around us, for want of a better explanation.

There was a time when the causes of disease were ascribed to all sorts of things which we now consider outlandish. I like to live in a world where I can see, hear and touch what's around me, but I'm also pleased, and not afraid, to experience some things beyond my senses, which I do know, by some very deep-recessed mental or physical processes, are there and are real. It's just that I can't experience them concretely. Who hasn't experienced their own "sixth sense," or not heard that "little voice" that tells us of danger, or advises us to do or not to do something. I always told my daughter when she was growing up to listen to that voice and that it probably knew things she didn't realize she knew on a conscious level.

When we have a discussion of ghosts, we have to be more specific as to what is meant. Do we mean Casper and his friends, or do we mean extra-sensory feelings, impressions, etc. I don't believe there are "evil spirits" out there, trying to "get" us, but I do believe that we have much more going on around us, each one of us personally, than we can process in terms of our lower-level, everyday sensations. Some of us are much more sensitive to such things. We might simply call them thoughtful or sensitive, or we might label them psychics or mediums. Most people who have that ability seem to keep quite about it, and with good reason. The world hasn't yet quite outgrown witch burning, real or symbolic.

[melwalton]

Hello, Bryce. Nice to hear from you.

Your post left out psychokinesis in which I firmly believe and don't understand at all. But that's off topic.
I've never had a 'Ghostly experience ( I'm still waiting to see a flying saucer) but I am interested in others' experiences and try to figure them out.
I can't say that I believe or disbelieve but am interested .... mel

[traceyk]

Anne and Synnove--
The following up the stairs feeling was a little creepy, especially at night, but nothing was ever truly frightening. I loved that house (lots of gorgeous woodwork and cherry floors) and was sorry to leave it. The only time I ever felt truly frightened was one summer when this "train killer" was on the loose. This guy apparently hopped rides on trains, then would randomly jump off and go find someone to kill. We lived about a block from the tracks and when our local news reported a murder nearby (well, about 20 miles, but still) that was thought to have been one of his victims, I flipped.
Tracey

[inglis]

About 3 years ago my daughter and son were playing outside in our backyard.It was winter and my kids were sliding down this big hill that we always have from all the snow that falls in the yard .I was in the house doing my usual house work .Our garage sits along the back yard and there is a window that faces west.It was just after supper and it was dark of course already.My daughter ran in the house and was really scared she said she saw my Mom in the garage window .I was startled by this outburst of emotion and asked her what she was talking about .I saw Grandma she said and I asked her if perhaps she did not see her own reflection as she was sliding down the hill past the window . My daughter was scared and I ccould tell that she was really upset .She did not want to play outside again and my son who was just to young at the time was not much of a witness to anything .My daughter said my Mom was wearing a green sweater and that she smiled at her. My daughters jacket and ski pants were red. I thought maybe she was just seeing herself but my daughter insisted that it was my Mom and that she smiled at her.I remember that when we first bought this house that we still live in I had a very strong feeling of my Mother when we first came to look at the house and thats when I knew this would be our home .We had looked at others but this house was it from the moment I stepped inside .I remember telling my husband that my Mom would love this house .My Mom will have been gone 8 years this March coming up. So who knows ,but thats my story and its real for my daughter

[Synnove]

Anne and Synnove--
The following up the stairs feeling was a little creepy, especially at night, but nothing was ever truly frightening. I loved that house (lots of gorgeous woodwork and cherry floors) and was sorry to leave it. The only time I ever felt truly frightened was one summer when this "train killer" was on the loose. This guy apparently hopped rides on trains, then would randomly jump off and go find someone to kill. We lived about a block from the tracks and when our local news reported a murder nearby (well, about 20 miles, but still) that was thought to have been one of his victims, I flipped.
Tracey

That does sound like it was a lovely house, the style of architecture from that time is truly beautiful. How horrible to live close to a crime like that, though. It's common sense to be afraid of real killers instead of ghosts.

"The world is big enough for us. No ghosts need apply." - Sherlock Holmes, The Sussex Vampire

(That said, I still don't think ghosts should be entirely ruled out.)