SPORTS

Chit-chat, current events
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GaryCooper
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Re: SPORTS

Post by GaryCooper »



U Conn. is now the big favorite to win it all. But there are surprises every now and then. Texas, Miami, FAU and Creighton are capable of pulling it off.
G.C.
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umop apisdn
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Re: SPORTS

Post by umop apisdn »

laffite wrote: March 25th, 2023, 11:02 am It would have been nice to have dissolved the Astros. The players to be chosen by other teams in a draft. The league would then put up a notice for a new city to have a baseball team. But it certainly would be difficult. Why is Altuve singled out here, wasn't it a collaborate effort? I am obviously not an expert on this subject.
I am only singling out Altuve here, because he seems to get a pass in other baseball discussion groups I frequent just because he didn't use the banging scheme.

I'm still angry because they were barely punished. I wouldn't have wanted the Astros to be dissolved, because that would have been unfair to the fans. What should have happened is something like this:

1. Vacate World Series championship and playoff wins, including pool money distributions.
2. Loss of international draft pool money for multiple years. This is a big deal in the sport.
3. Loss of draft picks for multiple years.
4. Ban coaching personnel for at least 5 years.
5. Ban front office personnel involved with creation of the sign stealing system for at least 5 years.

I agree that sign stealing or looking for any advantage has been a part of baseball since the beginning. However, the use of real time video and smart devices is a bridge too far. The player reaction in early 2020 illustrates it. They are all looking for an edge, but so many players spoke out against what the Astros were doing. The Astros sign stealing setup with monitor and trash can could be seen steps away from their dugout entrance on their own World Series commemorative video.

I watched Yu Darvish struggle with his confidence as a starter after that World Series when he signed with the Cubs the following year. There are probably pitchers who did badly against the Astros and then were sent back down.

I was born in 1980, so I was too young for the greenies era. I grew up during the steroid era. I'd be okay with Clemens or Bonds getting into the Hall of Fame eventually because of their careers achievements before they took steroids. I would also be okay with Sammy Sosa and Alex Rodriguez not making it in ever. Selig should not be in the Hall of Fame for enabling it all.
Thompson
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Re: SPORTS

Post by Thompson »

It's going to be interesting to see how these new time and other new rules to speed up the game play out. I assume they are going to keep that 20 second time clock on the bottom right of the TV screen inbetween pitches. It seems wrong to me, inflicting time upon the game. As a baseball fan i want an estimate time of a rain delay, nothing else, i want to be suspended in time, not rushed or ruled by time. Hate the phantom man on second in extra innings too.
Uncle Charlie
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Re: SPORTS

Post by Uncle Charlie »

Thompson wrote: March 28th, 2023, 5:52 pm It's going to be interesting to see how these new time and other new rules to speed up the game play out. I assume they are going to keep that 20 second time clock on the bottom right of the TV screen inbetween pitches. It seems wrong to me, inflicting time upon the game. As a baseball fan i want an estimate time of a rain delay, nothing else, i want to be suspended in time, not rushed or ruled by time. Hate the phantom man on second in extra innings too.
I can’t stand the phantom runner in extra innings. It was fine during the Covid season but there’s no reason to keep doing it. Especially since the time clock is already shaving a half hour off the game. I think it’s very telling that they use it in the regular season but not the postseason. It’s like an admission that it’s a stupid gimmicky rule and they wouldn’t use for a “meaningful” game.
umop apisdn
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Re: SPORTS

Post by umop apisdn »

Uncle Charlie wrote: March 28th, 2023, 7:00 pm
Thompson wrote: March 28th, 2023, 5:52 pm It's going to be interesting to see how these new time and other new rules to speed up the game play out. I assume they are going to keep that 20 second time clock on the bottom right of the TV screen in between pitches. It seems wrong to me, inflicting time upon the game. As a baseball fan i want an estimate time of a rain delay, nothing else, i want to be suspended in time, not rushed or ruled by time. Hate the phantom man on second in extra innings too.
I can’t stand the phantom runner in extra innings. It was fine during the Covid season but there’s no reason to keep doing it. Especially since the time clock is already shaving a half hour off the game. I think it’s very telling that they use it in the regular season but not the postseason. It’s like an admission that it’s a stupid gimmicky rule and they wouldn’t use for a “meaningful” game.
Ugh, I hate the Manfred Man too. It's the dumbest rule they've come up with.

I am coming around to the pitch clock only because I remember games when were played at a faster clip. So the pitch clock is just bring the game times back to what they were in the 1980s and 90s. I remember the Cubs playing the Dodgers in 2016 when Pedro Baez came in for relief. He was taking 30-45 seconds between each pitch. If I recall correctly, no one was even on base. It was exasperating because there was no action.

I want more action and less fidgeting around. Hopefully, these changes are not just an excuse to add more commercials.

I am kind of ambivalent on limiting pickoff throws because I love a good right-handed pickoff move.

For me, the jury is out on the shifting rules, because I think the player should adjust their approach. However, I can see that pitching improvements of the last 10 years is outpacing hitters ability. With the usage of sticky stuff and the increased spin rates pitchers are seeing, no wonder why hitters are stuck with the three true outcome approach.

More and more pitchers are throwing 100+ mph, but I don't think reaction times have improved nearly as much. I wonder if the mound needs to be lowered at some point.

I played baseball as a little girl with my neighborhood friends while carefully avoiding the neighbors' irascible dog. It was something out of The Sandlot: made up rules tailored to not having players or equipment.

Instead of watching the 2016 World Series with my friends in a bar, I watched it with my father who taught me about American sports. Baseball is my companion sport.
Last edited by umop apisdn on March 29th, 2023, 9:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Thompson
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Re: SPORTS

Post by Thompson »

Great post!
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Dargo
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Re: SPORTS

Post by Dargo »

So, what do the learned assembled here think of the idea (an idea I think is a good one anyway, and one which still keeps the "human element" in play here) that in order to keep incorrect and controversial balls & strike calls from having more of a negative and direct affect on the outcome of a game, that each manager be given two or maybe three opportunties to challenge a questionable call made by the home plate umpire and by use of the now standard use of the televised strike zone graphic, and/or a call made by a line judge as to if a batter had actually checked his swing or not and in this case by use of the reply cameras.

Remember here, I said ONLY two or three opportunties here throughout the game, and which I would not think would slow down the game in any messurable or significant degree as the managers would have to use them judiciously, and once again all this in the name of "fairness" and "accuracy".

(...so, whaddaya all think?...you already know what I think about this now)
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laffite
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Re: SPORTS

Post by laffite »

I think ho,e plate umpires be retired and let the automatic television strike zone take over. I am fed up with the bad calls. Technology is so advanced that forgoing the human element can be eschewed without guilt.. We al know humans are fallible, time to move on.
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txfilmfan
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Re: SPORTS

Post by txfilmfan »

laffite wrote: March 29th, 2023, 6:15 pm I think ho,e plate umpires be retired and let the automatic television strike zone take over. I am fed up with the bad calls. Technology is so advanced that forgoing the human element can be eschewed without guilt.. We al know humans are fallible, time to move on.
Tennis stopped using humans to call lines in all major tourneys after COVID hit. Before that, the technology was used only as a challenge backup. Now only the chair umpire can overrule the automatic line calls, and it rarely happens.
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Dargo
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Re: SPORTS

Post by Dargo »

txfilmfan wrote: March 29th, 2023, 6:20 pm
laffite wrote: March 29th, 2023, 6:15 pm I think ho,e plate umpires be retired and let the automatic television strike zone take over. I am fed up with the bad calls. Technology is so advanced that forgoing the human element can be eschewed without guilt.. We al know humans are fallible, time to move on.
Tennis stopped using humans to call lines in all major tourneys after COVID hit. Before that, the technology was used only as a challenge backup. Now only the chair umpire can overrule the automatic line calls, and it rarely happens.
Good point made in what appears to be a defense of laffite's argument here, Tex.

However, considering the idea that Baseball especially has always been much more "history-bound" than the sport of Tennis, I would think such a drastic change as taking away the homeplate umpire position isn't likely to happen in our lifetime, anyway.

(...and thus the reason why my earlier suggestion would seem to be a more logical and practical move that would and could be done by the MLB)
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txfilmfan
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Re: SPORTS

Post by txfilmfan »

Dargo wrote: March 29th, 2023, 6:52 pm
txfilmfan wrote: March 29th, 2023, 6:20 pm
laffite wrote: March 29th, 2023, 6:15 pm I think ho,e plate umpires be retired and let the automatic television strike zone take over. I am fed up with the bad calls. Technology is so advanced that forgoing the human element can be eschewed without guilt.. We al know humans are fallible, time to move on.
Tennis stopped using humans to call lines in all major tourneys after COVID hit. Before that, the technology was used only as a challenge backup. Now only the chair umpire can overrule the automatic line calls, and it rarely happens.
Good point made in what appears to be a defense of laffite's argument here, Tex.

However, considering the idea that Baseball especially has always been much more "history-bound" than the sport of Tennis, I would think such a drastic change as taking away the homeplate umpire position isn't likely to happen in our lifetime, anyway.

(...and thus the reason why my earlier suggestion would seem to be a more logical and practical move that would and could be done by the MLB)
I don't know... Wimbledon goes back 135 years... The US Open is not far behind, starting in 1895. Tennis rules have changed very little, even with huge changes in the way it's played (relying more on powerful serves/shots rather than finesse these days). A form of tennis (so-called "real tennis," played indoors) goes back to 16th century Europe, mainly played by royalty. The modern game of lawn tennis arose in the 1860s.

Most rule changes of late (since standardization in 1924) regard tiebreak scoring. Wimbledon and the French Open resisted last set tiebreakers, which is why Wimbledon had a 138 game fifth set with John Isner and Nicolas Mahut in 2010 (6-4, 3-6, 6-7, 7-6, 70-68). It's the longest tennis match ever played, lasting 11 hours, 5 minutes of court time, spread over 3 days (time called due to nightfall the first two days). 2022 was the first year all the Grand Slam tourneys employed a last set tiebreaker consistently.
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Dargo
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Re: SPORTS

Post by Dargo »

txfilmfan wrote: March 29th, 2023, 7:33 pm
Dargo wrote: March 29th, 2023, 6:52 pm
txfilmfan wrote: March 29th, 2023, 6:20 pm

Tennis stopped using humans to call lines in all major tourneys after COVID hit. Before that, the technology was used only as a challenge backup. Now only the chair umpire can overrule the automatic line calls, and it rarely happens.
Good point made in what appears to be a defense of laffite's argument here, Tex.

However, considering the idea that Baseball especially has always been much more "history-bound" than the sport of Tennis, I would think such a drastic change as taking away the homeplate umpire position isn't likely to happen in our lifetime, anyway.

(...and thus the reason why my earlier suggestion would seem to be a more logical and practical move that would and could be done by the MLB)
I don't know... Wimbledon goes back 135 years... The US Open is not far behind, starting in 1895. Tennis rules have changed very little, even with huge changes in the way it's played (relying more on powerful serves/shots rather than finesse these days). A form of tennis (so-called "real tennis," played indoors) goes back to 16th century Europe, mainly played by royalty. The modern game of lawn tennis arose in the 1860s.

Most rule changes of late (since standardization in 1924) regard tiebreak scoring. Wimbledon and the French Open resisted last set tiebreakers, which is why Wimbledon had a 138 game fifth set with John Isner and Nicolas Mahut in 2010 (6-4, 3-6, 6-7, 7-6, 70-68). It's the longest tennis match ever played, lasting 11 hours, 5 minutes of court time, spread over 3 days (time called due to nightfall the first two days). 2022 was the first year all the Grand Slam tourneys employed a last set tiebreaker consistently.
And another good argument made here, Tex.

However, wouldn't you admit that the number of rabid and traditionally-minded Baseball fans who could give you minutiae stats about the game and its many players who have taken the field during this same amount of time and thus one manner which is used to "rate" the players in a historical context past and present, would far out-number, and especially in America, the number of rabid Tennis fans who might be able to do the same in that sport.

(...and so in essence what I'm saying here is that anything and any changes the MLB Rules Committee might consider, they always have to take into consideration the high number and percentage of traditionalist fans that comprise their fan base)
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txfilmfan
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Re: SPORTS

Post by txfilmfan »

Dargo wrote: March 29th, 2023, 8:44 pm
txfilmfan wrote: March 29th, 2023, 7:33 pm
Dargo wrote: March 29th, 2023, 6:52 pm

Good point made in what appears to be a defense of laffite's argument here, Tex.

However, considering the idea that Baseball especially has always been much more "history-bound" than the sport of Tennis, I would think such a drastic change as taking away the homeplate umpire position isn't likely to happen in our lifetime, anyway.

(...and thus the reason why my earlier suggestion would seem to be a more logical and practical move that would and could be done by the MLB)
I don't know... Wimbledon goes back 135 years... The US Open is not far behind, starting in 1895. Tennis rules have changed very little, even with huge changes in the way it's played (relying more on powerful serves/shots rather than finesse these days). A form of tennis (so-called "real tennis," played indoors) goes back to 16th century Europe, mainly played by royalty. The modern game of lawn tennis arose in the 1860s.

Most rule changes of late (since standardization in 1924) regard tiebreak scoring. Wimbledon and the French Open resisted last set tiebreakers, which is why Wimbledon had a 138 game fifth set with John Isner and Nicolas Mahut in 2010 (6-4, 3-6, 6-7, 7-6, 70-68). It's the longest tennis match ever played, lasting 11 hours, 5 minutes of court time, spread over 3 days (time called due to nightfall the first two days). 2022 was the first year all the Grand Slam tourneys employed a last set tiebreaker consistently.
And another good argument made here, Tex.

However, wouldn't you admit that the number of rabid and traditionally-minded Baseball fans who could give you minutiae stats about the game and its many players who have taken the field during this same amount of time and thus one manner which is used to "rate" the players in a historical context past and present, would far out-number, and especially in America, the number of rabid Tennis fans who might be able to do the same in that sport.

(...and so in essence what I'm saying here is that anything and any changes the MLB Rules Committee might consider, they always have to take into consideration the high number and percentage of traditionalist fans that comprise their fan base)
Sure. There's going to be a lot more fans, and a lot more games (162*32 teams) per season. So more griping. I think tennis fans generally favored automatic line calling anyway.

But as for baseball, I think the loudest protest would come from the umpire's union!
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Dargo
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Re: SPORTS

Post by Dargo »

txfilmfan wrote: March 29th, 2023, 8:49 pm

Sure. There's going to be a lot more fans, and a lot more games (162*32 teams) per season. So more griping. I think tennis fans generally favored automatic line calling anyway.

But as for baseball, I think the loudest protest would come from the umpire's union!
You might be right here. And in fact, you probably are. And perhaps ever more now days, when the whole concept of "Traditionalism" seems to be on the wane.

(...and of course, not just in the realm of Sports)
Thompson
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Re: SPORTS

Post by Thompson »

I don't want to see the computerized strike zone anymore. I would much rather see the ball leaving the pitcher's hand. A bird's eye view from behind second base. Let the umpires call the game without us seeing that stupid box.
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