I Just Watched...

[Cinemaspeak59]

The Getaway (1972) Steve McQueen plays an ex con released from prison, and recruited to take part in a bank robbery, masterminded by a corrupt businessman (Ben Johnson), influential in securing McQueen’s freedom.  Ali MacGraw plays McQueen’s wife & partner in crime. Sam Peckinpah directs with his trademark extreme violence, and stylized editing.  The plot takes some strange detours that slow it down a little. In summary though, a solid 70s crime caper.  Al Lettieri is also on hand, and his character is just as menacing as his Virgil Sollozzo in The Godfather.

[Allhallowsday]

BIG TROUBLE IN LITTLE CHINA (1986) : total junk; highly recommended!

[jamesjazzguitar]

And re the Laura character's actions...Sorry, but I've never thought of them as being "creepy", but actually more nurturing.

[/quote]

I just got back from my hike and a young gal passed me on a bike. She was cute. This make me think of a joke I came up with:

If she is 13, I'm creepy. If she is 16, I'm French.

As for the Laura character's actions in the film. Say Laura was a Larry and Tom was Tara: (i.e., genders were reversed): Would you still view his actions as nurturing?

[Swithin]

I just watched "Tea and Sympathy" and I think it is interesting how many of the reviews of the film state that the plot revolved around homosexuality. Perhaps the original play did, and perhaps I am just projecting, but I got the impression that the character Tom in the film was demisexual or asexual. Those identities probably weren't well understood back when the film was made, though.

The film did a good job at showing that "different" does not mean "bad," especially since Tom was, in my opinion, the only likable character in the entire film. All the other men, with the exception of Al to some degree, were inconsiderate, judgemental, and sexist. Who would want to be "normal" if that's what was considered "normal?"

The character of Laura was quite creepy. I know she was trying to help Tom and felt sorry for him, but the ending was, in my opinion, completely inappropriate. I guess Tom was technically an adult at 18, but Laura was way too old and Tom way too young for her to go after him in that way. Yikes.

I also really disliked the fact that after Laura was with Tom, he was magically "better." Like he needed to have that experience to be considered acceptable as a person.

I knew Robert Anderson pretty well. Worked on a few projects with him. He was a sort of mentor to me, related to one aspect of my job. Lovely, generous man. He had been married to Teresa Wright and remained close friends with her after their divorce. They were a sweet, talented couple.

Hey, that is cool and all, but are you saying in all that time you spent with Robert Anderson you never discussed the play and\or film and anything related to what is being discussed here?

Of course, Tea and Sympathy wasn't his most successful effort but from my experience it leads to the most questions with regards to sexuality etc...

We discussed all his work. Bob was definitely straight. Tea and Sympathy was probably his most successful play, the other two famous ones being I Never Sang for My Father and You Know I Can't Hear You When the Water's Running. He wrote screenplays as well. He told me they had hopes of winning some Oscars for The Nun's Story, but it was the year of Ben-Hur.

There's a restaurant in New York named after Tea and Sympathy, serving British food.

https://www.teaandsympathy.com

[jamesjazzguitar]

I knew Robert Anderson pretty well. Worked on a few projects with him. He was a sort of mentor to me, related to one aspect of my job. Lovely, generous man. He had been married to Teresa Wright and remained close friends with her after their divorce. They were a sweet, talented couple.

Hey, that is cool and all, but are you saying in all that time you spent with Robert Anderson you never discussed the play and\or film and anything related to what is being discussed here?

Of course, Tea and Sympathy wasn't his most successful effort but from my experience it leads to the most questions with regards to sexuality etc...

We discussed all his work. Bob was definitely straight. Tea and Sympathy was probably his most successful play, the other two famous ones being I Never Sang for My Father and You Know I Can't Hear You When the Water's Running. He wrote screenplays as well. He told me they had hopes of winning some Oscars for The Nun's Story, but it was the year of Ben-Hur.

There's a restaurant in New York named after Tea and Sympathy, serving British food.

https://www.teaandsympathy.com

Clearly, we are not communicating. I didn't care or ask about Mr. Anderson's sexuality but that of the characters in the play Tea and Sympathy and if the storyline had anything at all to do with homosexuality or was it just about a shy, highly sensitive young man (and, as we see here, some viewers just assume that equates to the young man being sexually "confused"). That is the topic being discussed above.

And of course, I was aware of his screenplays since I said that Tea and Sympathy wasn't his most successful effort (which include all the fine work he did and not just plays). But I will admit to bias: I defined 'most successful' as winning those Oscars, as well as Golden Globes and Writer Guild of America awards.

[Swithin]

Thank you James.

I do know that first and foremost, Bob considered himself a playwright. As a youth, he was educated at Phillips Exeter Academy, a posh boys school which no doubt informed his experience and writing, particularly as relates to Tea and Sympathy. I haven't read the play or seen the movie in decades, so I don't remember how they compare, though I suspect one could find some hints in the play script, though I think Bob was rather cagey (as many playwrights were in those days) about admitting to gay subtexts.

The play was on Broadway during the McCarthy Era. It was directed by Elia Kazan. So care was probably taken not to be too overt about anything!

Btw, James, I reserve the right to post about things that you don't care and don't ask about! Since you didn't ask, I will tell you that Bob lived at 14 Sutton Place South, on the East Side of Manhattan.

[jamesjazzguitar]

Thank you James.

I do know that first and foremost, Bob considered himself a playwright. As a youth, he was educated at Phillips Exeter Academy, a posh boys school which no doubt informed his experience and writing, particularly as relates to Tea and Sympathy. I haven't read the play or seen the movie in decades, so I don't remember how they compare, though I suspect one could find some hints in the play script, though I think Bob was rather cagey (as many playwrights were in those days) about admitting to gay subtexts.

The play was on Broadway during the McCarthy Era. It was directed by Elia Kazan. So care was probably taken not to be too overt about anything!

Btw, James, I reserve the right to post about things that you don't care and don't ask about! Since you didn't ask, I will tell you that Bob lived at 14 Sutton Place South, on the East Side of Manhattan.

Thanks for the reply. I see that you do understand that my interest was mainly in the topic of gay subtext. As you may recall this was a hot topic at the TCM forum. It often would come down to one side saying, "gay subtext is there and if one can't see that, they must be homophobic". Another side (which I tended to come from), was more agnostic: that "seeing" gay subtext was very subjective and that one should not assume the author intended there to be any gay subtext (or that sometimes with a film, the director may have added gay subtext that was never the intention of the author). I.e., to me the intention of the author was key as it relates to the characters they created (and not how each of us views said characters).

That "Bob was rather cagey" really provides context for me. It would be rather rude to ask such a creative talent a direct question like: "Hey Bob, was Tom gay or NOT!". Also, sometimes us viewers treat a fictional character as if they were a real human being: "Hey Bob, did Tom ever get married?".

[Swithin]

Thank you James.

I do know that first and foremost, Bob considered himself a playwright. As a youth, he was educated at Phillips Exeter Academy, a posh boys school which no doubt informed his experience and writing, particularly as relates to Tea and Sympathy. I haven't read the play or seen the movie in decades, so I don't remember how they compare, though I suspect one could find some hints in the play script, though I think Bob was rather cagey (as many playwrights were in those days) about admitting to gay subtexts.

The play was on Broadway during the McCarthy Era. It was directed by Elia Kazan. So care was probably taken not to be too overt about anything!

Btw, James, I reserve the right to post about things that you don't care and don't ask about! Since you didn't ask, I will tell you that Bob lived at 14 Sutton Place South, on the East Side of Manhattan.

Thanks for the reply. I see that you do understand that my interest was mainly in the topic of gay subtext. As you may recall this was a hot topic at the TCM forum. It often would come down to one side saying, "gay subtext is there and if one can't see that, they must be homophobic". Another side (which I tended to come from), was more agnostic: that "seeing" gay subtext was very subjective and that one should not assume the author intended there to be any gay subtext (or that sometimes with a film, the director may have added gay subtext that was never the intention of the author). I.e., to me the intention of the author was key as it relates to the characters they created (and not how each of us views said characters).

That "Bob was rather cagey" really provides context for me. It would be rather rude to ask such a creative talent a direct question like: "Hey Bob, was Tom gay or NOT!". Also, sometimes us viewers treat a fictional character as if they were a real human being: "Hey Bob, did Tom ever get married?".

Bob's archive is at Harvard, where he went to college. I wonder if someone really delved deeply, and read through all the correspondence, whether there would be further hints. Perhaps producers/directors of revivals of the play might have written to him for guidance on the gay subtext matter, particularly in later days when they could have been more open about it. I do know that plays of other writers with potential gay subtexts, are much more overt about it, in more contemporary productions (Noel Coward's Design for Living comes to mind).

https://hollisarchives.lib.harvard.edu/ ... urces/8406

[BagelOnAPlate]

I saw The Children's Hour for the first time. I had seen the clips that are featured on the documentary The Celluloid Closet but had never seen the entire movie until yesterday.
Adapted from Lillian Hellman's play of the same name and directed by William Wyler, the movie tells the story of two female teachers (played by Audrey Hepburn and Shirley MacLaine) who run a private school for girls who lose their livelihood and their reputation when a spiteful student tells (or rather whispers to) her grandmother (played by Faye Bainter in her final movie role) about "unnatural" relations between the two teachers.

There will be spoilers.


I disagree with Shirley MacLaine's remark in The Celluloid Closet that they told the story "wrong" in the movie. Her character Martha actually does have romantic feelings for Audrey Hepburn's character Karen and the student's lie forces her to acknowledge them. Martha's feelings of shame (she says she feels dirty) are completely realistic for the time (and unfortunately even today for many people) and the fact that she commits suicide instead of fighting (as Shirley MacLaine states should have happened) does not seem like a false note to me. I found the compassion that Audrey Hepburn brings to her character especially moving. The scene where she breaks it off with her fiancé (played by James Garner) made me cry.
Karen Balkin is convincing as Mary, the spoiled brat who sets the tragedy in motion, but the child actor whose performance impressed me the most was Veronica Cartwright, who plays a student who is bullied by Mary into corroborating the lie about the teachers. She is one of my favorite actors. I love her work as a child and as an adult.

Have you seen the earlier film version These Three (1936)? Because I believe that one is better, though the remake has it's good points as well.

The earlier film could not mention the lesbianism due to the Production code at the time, it was included in the original play. But the point of the story was not what the lie was but that a lie can destroy lives.
I disagree about Karen Balkin, I thought she gave a terrible performance, I can understand why she did not get many more acting jobs after this.
However in the original, the character is played by Bonita Granville who is absolutely chilling in her performance, she is the reason I think this version is the best.

Karen Balkin is not a great actor like Veronica Cartwright, but I think she is quite convincing as the spoiled and manipulative Mary in The Children's Hour. Bonita Granville is a better actor than Karen Balkin, but Bonita Granville doesn't really add any depth to her performance as Mary in These Three. I like Bonita Granville in the Nancy Drew movies, but Veronica Cartwright was a much better child actor. It would have been interesting to see what Veronica Cartwright would have done with the role of Mary.

[BagelOnAPlate]

VICTOR / VICTORIA (1982) tonight on TCM. I laugh more at it each time I see it.

My favorite movie of all time! Glad others enjoy it too!

My two favorite movies are Cabaret and Victor/Victoria. Both movies are diegetic musicals, where the songs are sung by characters in the context of a performance rather than sung dialogue that you'll find in a traditional musical (like Camelot or Funny Girl).

[Swithin]

VICTOR / VICTORIA (1982) tonight on TCM. I laugh more at it each time I see it.

My favorite movie of all time! Glad others enjoy it too!

My two favorite movies are Cabaret and Victor/Victoria. Both movies are diegetic musicals, where the songs are sung by characters in the context of a performance rather than sung dialogue that you'll find in a traditional musical (like Camelot or Funny Girl).

That's actually considered the old-fashioned way of making musicals (although I never knew it was called "diegetic"). It was the traditional way to create musicals, before the more modern method ushered in partly by Show Boat, then fully with Oklahoma! Cabaret is actually a combo, having some songs sung as part of communication between characters, e.g. the songs between Lotte Lenya and Jack Gilford in the original Broadway cast. The more modern method enables the plot to extend beyond plots related to performers.

Btw, I saw Victor/Victoria when it was released. I thought I would love it. I just felt: ho-hum.

[Belle]

"Hell Drivers", 1957, Rank Organization, Cy Enfield Director. A British noir which is actually very well made and acted by a cast of nascent British big-name actors like Sean Connery. Stanley Baker is in the leading role and he's typically intense and pugilistic. Geoffrey Unsworth cinematographer provides the look of the film, but the editing is absolutely superb:

[Detective Jim McLeod]

Withnail And I (1987) TCM 6/10

In 1969, a pair of out of work actors have misadventures in a country cottage.

This has become a sort of cult film in it's home country of England. This is my first time seeing it though I recall the trailer in a New York theater when first released. It looked intriguing but never got around to watching it till now. It is a hit and miss comedy but it has more hits than misses. The actors really carry the day though the standout is Richard E. Grant. He totally dominates as the pretentious, chain smoking, hard drinking Withnail. He tosses off lines like "What absolute twaddle!" in a hilarious way.

This was produced by ex Beatle George Harrison for his company Handmade Films. The soundtrack includes some Jimi Hendrix as well as a snippet of Harrison's Beatle classic "While My Guitar Gently Weeps."

I may see this again in the future, I have feeling it might grow on me even more.

[BagelOnAPlate]

My favorite movie of all time! Glad others enjoy it too!

My two favorite movies are Cabaret and Victor/Victoria. Both movies are diegetic musicals, where the songs are sung by characters in the context of a performance rather than sung dialogue that you'll find in a traditional musical (like Camelot or Funny Girl).

That's actually considered the old-fashioned way of making musicals (although I never knew it was called "diegetic"). It was the traditional way to create musicals, before the more modern method ushered in partly by Show Boat, then fully with Oklahoma! Cabaret is actually a combo, having some songs sung as part of communication between characters, e.g. the songs between Lotte Lenya and Jack Gilford in the original Broadway cast. The more modern method enables the plot to extend beyond plots related to performers.

Btw, I saw Victor/Victoria when it was released. I thought I would love it. I just felt: ho-hum.

In the stage musical Cabaret, there are both diegetic and non-diegetic songs. The diegetic songs are all performed at the Kit Kat Club with the exception of "Tomorrow Belongs To Me" (sung by Fraulein Kost) and "Meeskite" (sung by Herr Schultz). In the non-diegetic numbers, the characters are communicating through song but are not meant to be aware that they are singing. In other words, they don't know they are in a musical.

In his movie adaptation of Cabaret, Bob Fosse chose to eliminate all non-diegetic songs so that all performances in the movie are diegetic. The song "Married," which was a non-diegetic number in the stage musical (a duet between Fräulein Schneider and Herr Schultz) is heard as a song played on the radio ("Heirat" which is sung in German).

In the movie Victor/Victoria all the songs are diegetic, with the characters singing as a part of a performance. The movie was later adapted into a stage musical (with Julie Andrews reprising the title role) that included both diegetic and non-diegetic numbers.

[LostHorizons]

My favorite movie of all time! Glad others enjoy it too!

My two favorite movies are Cabaret and Victor/Victoria. Both movies are diegetic musicals, where the songs are sung by characters in the context of a performance rather than sung dialogue that you'll find in a traditional musical (like Camelot or Funny Girl).

That's actually considered the old-fashioned way of making musicals (although I never knew it was called "diegetic"). It was the traditional way to create musicals, before the more modern method ushered in partly by Show Boat, then fully with Oklahoma! Cabaret is actually a combo, having some songs sung as part of communication between characters, e.g. the songs between Lotte Lenya and Jack Gilford in the original Broadway cast. The more modern method enables the plot to extend beyond plots related to performers.

Btw, I saw Victor/Victoria when it was released. I thought I would love it. I just felt: ho-hum.

Even further back than that, it was Gilbert and Sullivan who first started the “non-diegetic” use of song in their plays. Edwardian musicals which no one longer remembers such as Floradora were diegetic because they were largely just review shows.