MUSINGS, PONDERINGS, RUMINATIONS AND FANCIES

[TikiSoo]

I believe it would be more correct to say that Marilyn Monroe liked famous and powerful men.At one time she was married to the most famous American baseball player (Joe DiMaggio) while having affairs with the most famous Broadway director and already an Oscar-winning film director (Elia Kazan) and the most famous heterosexual American playwright of the time (Arthur Miller, who would be her next husband). This begins to look like not a coincidence. She would probably have been willing to have affairs with Einstein, Sandburg, or anyone else who could advance her fame and her career.

I don't see it that way at all.
I see someone as famous as Marilyn being drawn to other famous people because they can "connect" with each other on the horrors/restrictions of being famous. I absolutely think Michael Jackson & Lisa Marie were drawn to each other because of their common experience growing up with celebrity/fame all around them.

That, and because of her beauty and sexpot image, Marilyn tired of people viewing & treating her that way, like an object. She worked hard at developing herself- both her calculated image/career and personal intellect.

She welcomed meeting "intellectuals", especially those in the arts because she hoped they'd relate to her as a person, not a desired object. I'm sure she knew just by the look on their face upon meeting, just the sight of her dazzled a person...but she hoped she was interesting enough to make them forget about it.

(I know of what I speak-I spent the first 18 years of my life as a fashion model)

[I Love Melvin]

I believe it would be more correct to say that Marilyn Monroe liked famous and powerful men.At one time she was married to the most famous American baseball player (Joe DiMaggio) while having affairs with the most famous Broadway director and already an Oscar-winning film director (Elia Kazan) and the most famous heterosexual American playwright of the time (Arthur Miller, who would be her next husband). This begins to look like not a coincidence. She would probably have been willing to have affairs with Einstein, Sandburg, or anyone else who could advance her fame and her career.

I don't see it that way at all.
I see someone as famous as Marilyn being drawn to other famous people because they can "connect" with each other on the horrors/restrictions of being famous. I absolutely think Michael Jackson & Lisa Marie were drawn to each other because of their common experience growing up with celebrity/fame all around them.

That, and because of her beauty and sexpot image, Marilyn tired of people viewing & treating her that way, like an object. She worked hard at developing herself- both her calculated image/career and personal intellect.

She welcomed meeting "intellectuals", especially those in the arts because she hoped they'd relate to her as a person, not a desired object. I'm sure she knew just by the look on their face upon meeting, just the sight of her dazzled a person...but she hoped she was interesting enough to make them forget about it.

(I know of what I speak-I spent the first 18 years of my life as a fashion model)

I agree that Marilyn didn't need any particular man to advance her fame; she was already one of the most famous women in the world, at least for a hot minute the most famous. To advance her career? Maybe in the beginning; that seems to be what agent Johnny Hyde was about. But if it were really true she would have given in to Zanuck, who notoriously clocked his starlets as easy pickings. The most likely scenario to me is that the men in her life pursued her. DiMaggio had been huge in his time but was then out of the limelight and (according to some biographers, but you'll have to forgive me for not being able to cite on the spot) Marilyn's only real acquaintance with him as a public figure was from the stories he himself told her. When they went to Japan, where she made her detour to perform in Korea, he saw how much her fame eclipsed his and from that point the relationship started to go south. Miller was a person of interest in the Communist "witch hunt" and was having trouble about a passport, so he announced unilaterally to the press that he and Marilyn were to be married and go to England together for her next film, even though he'd never asked her. (Again, I don't have citations at my fingertips.) He got his passport. Using people for self-advancement is a two-way street and Marilyn seems to have been as much on the receiving end as the reverse.

[Bronxgirl48]

It's NOT June's birthday. Why inflict June on us for no reason??????????

Although it could have been worse. They could have chosen Margaret O'Brien.

(and a confession: June and Van give fine performances in the wistful HIGH BARBAREE)

I've never seen that one. Is it set in Australia?

Van remembers childhood stories from his father about an island called High Barbaree which is supposedly set somewhere around the Pacific Ocean.

[Bronxgirl48]

I believe it would be more correct to say that Marilyn Monroe liked famous and powerful men. She was what today is sometimes called a star******. At one time she was married to the most famous American baseball player (Joe DiMaggio) while having affairs with the most famous Broadway director and already an Oscar-winning film director (Elia Kazan) and the most famous heterosexual American playwright of the time (Arthur Miller, who would be her next husband). This begins to look like not a coincidence. She would probably have been willing to have affairs with Einstein, Sandburg, or anyone else who could advance her fame and her career.

Sandburg, by the way, transported stolen jewels for the Soviets to the Soviet embassy in New York. This was in the early years of the revolution.

High Barbaree refers to an island in the Pacific. It's a confusing title; some people have thought it was a western. Bronxie, I'm glad you liked it.

The traditional view of Marilyn is that she was a perpetual victim of the casting couch system but I never believed that. Although her emotional/mental problems contributed to an image of vulnerability, Monroe certainly knew what she wanted and set out to achieve those goals.

HIGH BARBAREE and THE SHRIKE are the only (so far) June Allyson movies I can tolerate (and think she gives good performances).

[Bronxgirl48]

I could have sworn I saw an actual non-photoshopped pix of the two of them. There does seem to be consensus the two really did meet. Marilyn expressed in print her desire to meet and marry "an intellectual man". This, however, did not apply to Joe DiMaggio but soon afterward hooked up with Miller.

Jayne had her own problems. Mickey Hargitay was by all accounts a devoted, loving husband but she divorced him anyway.

This may be what you're thinking of, Marilyn with Carl Sandberg in a Chicago hotel.




In 1985 Nicholas Roeg directed Insignificance, imagining a meeting with Einstein when Marilyn was on location for The Seven Year Itch, also featuring characters based on Dimaggio and Joe McCarthy.



You're right that she liked intellectual men. She supposedly always kept a picture of Abraham Lincoln in her bedroom.

I forgot about Carl Sandberg!

Old Abe watching over Marilyn as she slept? How cozy.

[Hibi]

Although it could have been worse. They could have chosen Margaret O'Brien.

(and a confession: June and Van give fine performances in the wistful HIGH BARBAREE)

I've never seen that one. Is it set in Australia?

Van remembers childhood stories from his father about an island called High Barbaree which is supposedly set somewhere around the Pacific Ocean.

I see! Thanks.

[CinemaInternational]

Yes, I am alive. I know I have been offline for a month, but its been a hard time on a personal level, and with no home internet, it has become hard for me to get out and about. I wish I could be online more, but at this time, it isn't easy to do. I'm really sorry about it. I miss you all and wish I could come back to speak more often with all of you.

[CinemaInternational]

Regarding the general distaste here for June Allyson, I always kind of liked her, but it is true she comes off stronger in some films more than others. I know that many consider her stardom a mystery, and maybe it was best explained in 5 or 6 pages of a book called The Star Machine written by a film historian named Jeanne Basinger. Basinger was born in the 30s, so she was around when June was making the way up, so she really felt personally invested in her career.

Someone brought up the 1985 film Insignificance. Very hard view for me, especially the nuclear bomb nightmare sequence near the end, but Theresa Russell gave a fine performance.

[Hibi]

Yes, I am alive. I know I have been offline for a month, but its been a hard time on a personal level, and with no home internet, it has become hard for me to get out and about. I wish I could be online more, but at this time, it isn't easy to do. I'm really sorry about it. I miss you all and wish I could come back to speak more often with all of you.

I wondered why you haven't been around lately. Hoping things work out for you!

[CinemaInternational]

Yes, I am alive. I know I have been offline for a month, but its been a hard time on a personal level, and with no home internet, it has become hard for me to get out and about. I wish I could be online more, but at this time, it isn't easy to do. I'm really sorry about it. I miss you all and wish I could come back to speak more often with all of you.

I wondered why you haven't been around lately. Hoping things work out for you!

Thank you. It's just been a difficult time. I went through a panic attack that was bad, and my father's health took a turn for the worse. He's been in the hospital and now a nursing home for the past week. We hope to bring him home soon, but he is frail right now.

[Hibi]

Sorry to hear all this. There's always a place for you here once you work things out.

[Bronxgirl48]

Yes, I am alive. I know I have been offline for a month, but its been a hard time on a personal level, and with no home internet, it has become hard for me to get out and about. I wish I could be online more, but at this time, it isn't easy to do. I'm really sorry about it. I miss you all and wish I could come back to speak more often with all of you.

I wondered why you haven't been around lately. Hoping things work out for you!

Thank you. It's just been a difficult time. I went through a panic attack that was bad, and my father's health took a turn for the worse. He's been in the hospital and now a nursing home for the past week. We hope to bring him home soon, but he is frail right now.

CinemaInternational, my heart, blessings and all good wishes go out to you and your family during this stressful period.

Please do not think in terms of any time table when it comes to participation on the message board. You are a valued and important member of this community. Good people are always worth waiting for.

[BagelOnAPlate]

Does anyone know when A CHARLIE BROWN THANKSGIVING will be aired this month on plain old commercial television? (ABC, NBC, CBS) I am having problems with YouTube (cannot get any volume, try as I might) where I used to watch these beloved holiday classics.

See: https://www.billboard.com/culture/produ ... 235473232/

Oh ziggy thanks so much -- I can't seem to get into that link, though. I really want to watch it old-school style, on the regular commercial networks, not online or streaming. It is just not Thanksgiving (or Christmas) without the Peanuts gang and I get very nostalgic about this.

There aren't very many Thanksgiving related movies or shows. A Charlie Brown Thanksgiving is one of the best.

A favorite movie of mine that includes three Thanksgiving gatherings is Woody Allen's Hannah and Her Sisters.
Mia Farrow supposedly hates the movie, but it features one of my favorite performances of hers.

[TikiSoo]

Someone brought up the 1985 film Insignificance. Very hard view for me, especially the nuclear bomb nightmare sequence near the end, but Theresa Russell gave a fine performance.

It's so good to know there's someone else who appreciates Theresa Russell. She's been in a lot of different types of movies & I always respond strongly to her performances.


CinemaInternational- your absence was noticed, you are very missed here. Sending best wishes for you & your family.