The Last Hunt:
Several weeks ago I taped The Last Hunt on my U-Verse DVR but have not had the urge to see it. Today, being one of the most boring of TV days, and lonely here on SSO, I finally watched it and was very glad I did. Not a particular fan of Robert Taylor except as a once husband of Barbara Stanwyck, but a big fan of Stewart Granger, I found it to be not only beautifully photographed, but the acting was pretty good. Taylor plays a really nasty bad guy (the kind you cheer when he dies), and I believe Stewart was much more acceptable as the nice guy, so I'm glad they did it this way. Lloyd Nolan as the grungy buffalo skinner was marvelous considering I'm used to him as a dapper newsman, or whatever. Russ Tamblyn rounded out the men as a young half-breed (with red hair). Strange looking because it's hard to believe red or blond coloring could stand over American Indian traits.
Finally, Debra Paget did her job well as the non-speaking Indian girl who Granger saves finally from Taylor. She speaks but not to Taylor. It's gruesome during the hunting scenes, which Granger hates because he acknowledges its the end of the Indians freedom, but in all a good 2 hours.
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Westerns
Re: Westerns
Anne
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JackFavell
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Re: Westerns
I only saw the last hour of The Last Hunt, but what I saw was well worth it. And I'm with you, I have never been a big Taylor fan. Wow, he was good in this one. It was well worth watching, all the leads did very well, and the ending was quite intense.
I also got to see the end of Warlock this morning (which was discussed earlier in this thread), and enjoyed it very much. Of course, with a trio of actors like Richard Widmark, Henry Fonda, and Anthony Quinn, you really can't go wrong. The way power shifted between the three was fascinating. Now I see I am going to have to rent it or find a copy, so I can see it from the beginning.
I also got to see the end of Warlock this morning (which was discussed earlier in this thread), and enjoyed it very much. Of course, with a trio of actors like Richard Widmark, Henry Fonda, and Anthony Quinn, you really can't go wrong. The way power shifted between the three was fascinating. Now I see I am going to have to rent it or find a copy, so I can see it from the beginning.
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butterscotchgreer
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Re: Westerns
Hey Wendy!
Well personally, i think Warlock is a great movie too! i actually just saw that one recently too.
heehee!
Well personally, i think Warlock is a great movie too! i actually just saw that one recently too.
heehee!
Re: Westerns
Warlock was a fine dramatic, psychological film. Knowing the mindset of the era, and Fonda and Quinn as both big, male stars, I wonder if the writer was trying to say something that was not acceptable at the time. If someone like a Leslie Howard, or Montgomery Clift had played Quinns' role, that bond between him and Fonda would have seemed like an early day Brokeback Mountain. Am I seeing and reading the wrong things, or has anyone else ever thought what I'm saying?
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Anne
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MissGoddess
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Re: Westerns
butterscotchgreer wrote:Hey Wendy!
Well personally, i think Warlock is a great movie too! i actually just saw that one recently too.
heehee!
Who let you in here??
I bet it's a lot easier to log on here than at TCM, at least I hope so!
Hi, T!
"There's only one thing that can kill the movies, and that's education."
-- Will Rogers
-- Will Rogers
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movieman1957
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Re: Westerns
The Lovely Miss T:
What a nice surprise and high time too.
What a nice surprise and high time too.
Chris
"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana."
"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana."
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JackFavell
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Re: Westerns
Hey buttertea! I am so happy to see you! Thank goodness you made it... now maybe we can actually have a chat without being interrupted.
I agree that using a big man like Anthony Quinn as the sidekick/cripple was a great idea for the movie Warlock, especially since he is such a fine actor. I thought he was going to steal the picture, but Fonda actually took it back after Quinn's big scene at the end. It's a testament to all three actors that they were able to weave back and forth from the most powerful to the least powerful at any given time. This must have been a very satisfying movie to make, since that is the kind of give and take most actors live for.
I like to think that there is something more to the relationship between Fonda and Quinn than just subverted longing - it seemed so to me anyway, although that is probably part of it. I think I saw it as jealously a little more than longing, though. I liked the fact that men in this film are more than just one thing or another..... Quinn needed Fonda, but Fonda needed Quinn too. I think that men can care deeply for one another, especially over time. I thought that the movie was really great at pointing out how relationships fall into behavior patterns over time that aren't necessarily satisfactory for both people. Quinn's need was more than Fonda's, (no matter what it was based on) and eventually he became bitter and twisted inside because he could see it, but do nothing to change it. His love for Fonda is questionable, though, as the movie reaches it's climax. Is it love, or is it actually jealousy and need? Maybe it started out one way and changed over time?
I agree that using a big man like Anthony Quinn as the sidekick/cripple was a great idea for the movie Warlock, especially since he is such a fine actor. I thought he was going to steal the picture, but Fonda actually took it back after Quinn's big scene at the end. It's a testament to all three actors that they were able to weave back and forth from the most powerful to the least powerful at any given time. This must have been a very satisfying movie to make, since that is the kind of give and take most actors live for.
I like to think that there is something more to the relationship between Fonda and Quinn than just subverted longing - it seemed so to me anyway, although that is probably part of it. I think I saw it as jealously a little more than longing, though. I liked the fact that men in this film are more than just one thing or another..... Quinn needed Fonda, but Fonda needed Quinn too. I think that men can care deeply for one another, especially over time. I thought that the movie was really great at pointing out how relationships fall into behavior patterns over time that aren't necessarily satisfactory for both people. Quinn's need was more than Fonda's, (no matter what it was based on) and eventually he became bitter and twisted inside because he could see it, but do nothing to change it. His love for Fonda is questionable, though, as the movie reaches it's climax. Is it love, or is it actually jealousy and need? Maybe it started out one way and changed over time?
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movieman1957
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Re: Westerns
I think part of Quinn's reaction is jealousy. Fonda is being drawn toward the woman and such is leaving Quinn. Now, whatever Quinn's relationship to Fonda there is a deep tie there. They have been through a lot. Things Quinn sees as being bigger than a woman's love. THe fun is in the speculation.
After Quinn's death it seems Fonda is jolted back to their relationship. Now Fonda has no second chance, no backup plan, nothing to fill any area that the woman cannot fill and it grieves him for that because Quinn pretty much was his life and his work
After Quinn's death it seems Fonda is jolted back to their relationship. Now Fonda has no second chance, no backup plan, nothing to fill any area that the woman cannot fill and it grieves him for that because Quinn pretty much was his life and his work
Chris
"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana."
"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana."
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klondike
Re: Westerns
Good points all, Chris, and quite valid ones, too.movieman1957 wrote:
After Quinn's death it seems Fonda is jolted back to their relationship. Now Fonda has no second chance, no backup plan, nothing to fill any area that the woman cannot fill and it grieves him for that because Quinn pretty much was his life and his work
It might even be fun to compare that triangle to the one formed by Viggo Mortensen, Renee Zellwegger & Ed Harris in 2008's Appaloosa, especially as Mortensen & Harris' characters enjoyed a similarly long-standing partnership as town-tamers.
Re: Westerns
(At the risk of admonishment, I had no idea where to post this. In both the Hawks School thread and here, it would seem to disrupt the current discussions and in searching, I found no thread solely devoted to Rio Bravo. Apologies if this belongs elsewhere.)
Last spring I watched a number of the Westerns John Wayne made with John Ford, and, while I thought I wasn't much of a fan of Westerns, each one of those films I found not only entertaining, but also rich in complex characters and situations.
Last night I watched Howard Hawks' Rio Bravo for the first time, and I'm back to thinking I don't like Westerns. How this film is considered a "classic", a 4-star classic no less, is simply beyond my feeble imagination.
For a film over two hours long, pretty much nothing happens. The opening "silent" prolog doesn't work and is over-emoted in all of the worst ways, particularly in the introduction of Wayne (who does his "patented" saunter as if the State, in an effort to reign in budgetary concerns, had closed all of the nearby outhouses). The much touted performance by Dean Martin is totally unconvincing (he does a much better "drunk" in his roasts), and Ricky Nelson acts as if he's in a 1950's sit-com. (Cheap shot, sure, but he telegraphs each line. But what hair! It doesn't move! Even in gun fights!). And as for Angie "Legs" Dickinson...well, she's no "Pepper" and certainly no "Big Bad Mama". And what of poor Walter Brennan, once again stuck doing a caricature of a caricature of a caricature....At least he gets a few good lines.
Hawks direction is pretty pedestrian, too. Each time one of the "bad guys" is revealed, it's from behind his (or their) shoulder(s), and, like the entire film, provides no sense of urgency whatsoever. It's just the place where Deano or Wayne should point their guns. And the "climatic" ending, the shootout at the old house, are you kidding? Where's the action? Where's the drama? Where's...anything? Not only is there no tension, but by using dynamite, the "bad guys" are simply reduced to the henchmen status in a James Bond film. But speaking of bad guys, the entire plot is based on a flimsy premise, which is never exploited. Nobody is afraid of anybody, and the fact that the all-star cast all play good guys means the bad guys have little to do but wear black hats and die.
Cinematically, too, the film looks and feels like it was filmed on a set. Interiors are so bright, there is nary a shadow. Look at every close-up of Nelson. His face literally glistens! For the old West, everyone is pretty clean, including Martin in the scene where he's asked to take a bath.
There are a number of really cringe-worthy sequences but topping the list have to include the awful Abbott and Costello routine Wayne does with Pedro Gonzalez. I kept waiting for one of them to yell "third base" just to finally end the scene. And, of course, when a film features a known crooner and a teen idol, singing must ensue, but do we really need and encore? (At least in song number two, Brennan unconvincingly plays his harmonica). The fact that these two sequences stop the film dead is of little consequence, because there is so little forward momentum to begin with. And what can one say about the gratuitous "coda", where Wayne confronts "Legs" in her stockings? Despite the fact that the two have zilch chemistry, at least it was one sequence worthy of being brightly lit.
The two-disc special edition DVD of the film has a ton of extras, but my disappointment is so great that I'll put these off for another day (as I've also shuffled Hawk's Red River to the bottom of the pile). I just really don't understand why all the accolades for the film. And I love Hawks, too. Many of my all-time favorites are his.
Last spring I watched a number of the Westerns John Wayne made with John Ford, and, while I thought I wasn't much of a fan of Westerns, each one of those films I found not only entertaining, but also rich in complex characters and situations.
Last night I watched Howard Hawks' Rio Bravo for the first time, and I'm back to thinking I don't like Westerns. How this film is considered a "classic", a 4-star classic no less, is simply beyond my feeble imagination.
For a film over two hours long, pretty much nothing happens. The opening "silent" prolog doesn't work and is over-emoted in all of the worst ways, particularly in the introduction of Wayne (who does his "patented" saunter as if the State, in an effort to reign in budgetary concerns, had closed all of the nearby outhouses). The much touted performance by Dean Martin is totally unconvincing (he does a much better "drunk" in his roasts), and Ricky Nelson acts as if he's in a 1950's sit-com. (Cheap shot, sure, but he telegraphs each line. But what hair! It doesn't move! Even in gun fights!). And as for Angie "Legs" Dickinson...well, she's no "Pepper" and certainly no "Big Bad Mama". And what of poor Walter Brennan, once again stuck doing a caricature of a caricature of a caricature....At least he gets a few good lines.
Hawks direction is pretty pedestrian, too. Each time one of the "bad guys" is revealed, it's from behind his (or their) shoulder(s), and, like the entire film, provides no sense of urgency whatsoever. It's just the place where Deano or Wayne should point their guns. And the "climatic" ending, the shootout at the old house, are you kidding? Where's the action? Where's the drama? Where's...anything? Not only is there no tension, but by using dynamite, the "bad guys" are simply reduced to the henchmen status in a James Bond film. But speaking of bad guys, the entire plot is based on a flimsy premise, which is never exploited. Nobody is afraid of anybody, and the fact that the all-star cast all play good guys means the bad guys have little to do but wear black hats and die.
Cinematically, too, the film looks and feels like it was filmed on a set. Interiors are so bright, there is nary a shadow. Look at every close-up of Nelson. His face literally glistens! For the old West, everyone is pretty clean, including Martin in the scene where he's asked to take a bath.
There are a number of really cringe-worthy sequences but topping the list have to include the awful Abbott and Costello routine Wayne does with Pedro Gonzalez. I kept waiting for one of them to yell "third base" just to finally end the scene. And, of course, when a film features a known crooner and a teen idol, singing must ensue, but do we really need and encore? (At least in song number two, Brennan unconvincingly plays his harmonica). The fact that these two sequences stop the film dead is of little consequence, because there is so little forward momentum to begin with. And what can one say about the gratuitous "coda", where Wayne confronts "Legs" in her stockings? Despite the fact that the two have zilch chemistry, at least it was one sequence worthy of being brightly lit.
The two-disc special edition DVD of the film has a ton of extras, but my disappointment is so great that I'll put these off for another day (as I've also shuffled Hawk's Red River to the bottom of the pile). I just really don't understand why all the accolades for the film. And I love Hawks, too. Many of my all-time favorites are his.
"Let's be independent together." Dr. Hermey DDS
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movieman1957
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Re: Westerns
Short of starting a new thread this is as good a place as any for your post. Maybe we should talk about the Ford pictures. I can't disagree that it is long and there isn't much action save for the end but I like the characters. I'm not all that fond of Nelson in the role. There must have been someone out there, besides Elvis, who could have done that role.
Have you seen "El Dorado"? I am sure if you put "Red River" on the bottom I'm sure "El Dorado" goes there too.
I hope you find another one to talk about.
Have you seen "El Dorado"? I am sure if you put "Red River" on the bottom I'm sure "El Dorado" goes there too.
I hope you find another one to talk about.
Chris
"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana."
"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana."
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moira finnie
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Re: Westerns
Hi MichiganJ,
I have to add that I find the painfully slow-moving Rio Bravo and El Dorado (aren't they the same movie?) among my least favorite Howard Hawks' movies, though it seems that many people number the first movie among their faves.
I much prefer Red River among Hawks' handful of Westerns, but not for the character part it gave John Wayne, whom I found to give a one-note performance in all five of the movies he made with Hawks, each of which seemed to make him more iconic than human. I say this because I still think that Wayne was a good actor, when given some good direction and a decently written character.
I love the character actors in Red River, who make it an engaging oater for me: Noah Beery, Jr., John Ireland, Harry and Dobe Carey, Paul Fix, and of course, Hank Worden, among others. Each of them seems to have imbued their sketchy roles with so much reality, naturalness and flashes of humanity, they are often conveying a lifetime in just a glance or a word. They carry the movie for me, not Wayne nor the gifted but perhaps miscast Clift in this instance.
I really think that Hawks was better at the detective, aviation and comedic films, but hey, that's probably just me.
I have to add that I find the painfully slow-moving Rio Bravo and El Dorado (aren't they the same movie?) among my least favorite Howard Hawks' movies, though it seems that many people number the first movie among their faves.
I much prefer Red River among Hawks' handful of Westerns, but not for the character part it gave John Wayne, whom I found to give a one-note performance in all five of the movies he made with Hawks, each of which seemed to make him more iconic than human. I say this because I still think that Wayne was a good actor, when given some good direction and a decently written character.
I love the character actors in Red River, who make it an engaging oater for me: Noah Beery, Jr., John Ireland, Harry and Dobe Carey, Paul Fix, and of course, Hank Worden, among others. Each of them seems to have imbued their sketchy roles with so much reality, naturalness and flashes of humanity, they are often conveying a lifetime in just a glance or a word. They carry the movie for me, not Wayne nor the gifted but perhaps miscast Clift in this instance.
I really think that Hawks was better at the detective, aviation and comedic films, but hey, that's probably just me.
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butterscotchgreer
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Re: Westerns
hey Dahlink!
Who let you in here??
I bet it's a lot easier to log on here than at TCM, at least I hope so!
the door was open, so i walked in curiously. heehee! and guess what! no slime or water dumped on my head when i went through the door this time! woopee! i could leap so high right now for joy!
and we can even have tea parties without being intgerrupted too!!! we'll invie Mr. Duke, though, so he wont be left out. heehee!
Hey Chris!!!
The Lovely Miss T:
What a nice surprise and high time too.
well i have actually been reading a lot of conversations on and off for a couple years here and have already been a member, i have just never really chatted until now, which im ever so happy about!!!
how are you and your beautiful bride recently?
Wendy Wendy Wendy!
Hey buttertea! I am so happy to see you! Thank goodness you made it... now maybe we can actually have a chat without being interrupted.
most definitely! we will have to chat about everything now!how exciting!!! isnt it pathetic how easily i get excited? holy joe!
Who let you in here??
I bet it's a lot easier to log on here than at TCM, at least I hope so!
the door was open, so i walked in curiously. heehee! and guess what! no slime or water dumped on my head when i went through the door this time! woopee! i could leap so high right now for joy!
and we can even have tea parties without being intgerrupted too!!! we'll invie Mr. Duke, though, so he wont be left out. heehee!
Hey Chris!!!
The Lovely Miss T:
What a nice surprise and high time too.
well i have actually been reading a lot of conversations on and off for a couple years here and have already been a member, i have just never really chatted until now, which im ever so happy about!!!
how are you and your beautiful bride recently?
Wendy Wendy Wendy!
Hey buttertea! I am so happy to see you! Thank goodness you made it... now maybe we can actually have a chat without being interrupted.
most definitely! we will have to chat about everything now!how exciting!!! isnt it pathetic how easily i get excited? holy joe!
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charliechaplinfan
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Re: Westerns
I find this interesting because like MichiganJ I have just watched Rio Bravo after reading a bio on Hawks. My impression from reading the book is that Rio Bravo is the pinnacle of Hawk's career but although I enjoyed it, I did find it stylised, I thought John Wayne was incredibly stilted in his scenes with Angie Dickinson, didn't care for Ricky Nelson, thought Dino was great but I don't get why it is such an iconic movie.
On the other hand, I love Red River, it doesn't feel studio bound, it's out in the wilderness, the strange combination of Clift and Wayne works, especially Clift. I agree with you Moira about the character actors.
I can't see myself ever watching El Dorado but I wouldn't push Red River so far down your list.
And since I'm here, I once had a boyfriend who adored True Grit, I must have seen that film about 5 times and I cannot see, apart from as a swan song to Wayne's career why it is so good.
On the other hand, I love Red River, it doesn't feel studio bound, it's out in the wilderness, the strange combination of Clift and Wayne works, especially Clift. I agree with you Moira about the character actors.
I can't see myself ever watching El Dorado but I wouldn't push Red River so far down your list.
And since I'm here, I once had a boyfriend who adored True Grit, I must have seen that film about 5 times and I cannot see, apart from as a swan song to Wayne's career why it is so good.
Failure is unimportant. It takes courage to make a fool of yourself - Charlie Chaplin
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MissGoddess
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Re: Westerns
butterscotchgreer wrote:the door was open, so i walked in curiously. heehee! and guess what! no slime or water dumped on my head when i went through the door this time! woopee! i could leap so high right now for joy!
I'm so glad.
and we can even have tea parties without being intgerrupted too!!! we'll invie Mr. Duke, though, so he wont be left out. heehee!
Yes, we will, and soon I hope.
"There's only one thing that can kill the movies, and that's education."
-- Will Rogers
-- Will Rogers