Westerns

[movieman1957]

Alison:

I have a similar feel for True Grit. It might be the rather off casting of Kim Darby and Glen Campbell that brings it down a notch. Now I know Darby is supposed to be this really annoying child (and she is) but her and Glen bring it down a notch for me. I think Wayne is terrific but when he is off and the others are on then it isn't all that great. Rooster Cogburn is even less successful but it is fun watching Wayne and Hepburn.

[moira finnie]

Don't you think that the aura some people see in True Grit is part of the affection of the audience for Wayne himself? The main pleasure I've derived from this movie is watching Wayne try something very different for him, and clearly showing his pleasure in acting this character role.

Chris, I am so amused to read your very rare criticism, but you're so right about the annoying factor of Kim Darby and especially Glenn Campbell. ( i can't remember you ever saying anything like that before!). And what in the world made Wayne think that casting popular boy singers in his movies after about 1959? I like Ricky Nelson okay, but these guys were terrible actors.

Even though most of the Wayne-Henry Hathaway collaborations may have been flawed and worse, (you know what I mean if you've seen Circus World), thanks to the beautiful performance he got out of Wayne (and a great cast) in The Shepherd of the Hills (1941), I wish the two had made more movies together when both were in their prime. I also have a weakness for the silly but beautifully photographed Hathaway film, Legend of the Lost (1957), which is kind of a Western set in North Africa. The DP, Jack Cardiff, was smitten with the leading lady, Sophia Loren, so that explains alot of the beautiful color and light that infuses this movie.

Hey, is there any chance that Ms. Cutter's online Film School might have a course devoted to director Henry Hathaway in the future?

[JackFavell]

I too, would move Red River back out of the bin.... for the same reasons everyone else has, but mainly because it's just so darn gorgeous to look at. I also actually like Wayne's performance in RR.

[JackFavell]

Hey, Scotchie, Goddess,

Is there a tea party chat thread where we could go have a cuppa? I hate to interrupt the conversation here. Maybe we can make a thread, because I dearly miss our morning tea with the Darcy's.

[movieman1957]

Moira:

I am pleased to have surprised you and made you laugh. (Good for me.) I so seldom surprise anyone. I agree that the joy in True Grit is Wayne. Oh, I have seen Circus World and there was a whole lot of money for very little return. That was just a strange story.

[butterscotchgreer]

hey Dalink and Wendy!

april:

Yes, we will, and soon I hope.

great! lets throw a party in honor of the great Kate Hepburn and The Duke being the most unlikely pair together in Rooster Cogburn! heehee!

now i saw you guys talking about True Grit and Rooster and i would love to pick those two apart with yall.....oh but i must say that i love Rooster Cogburn so much more, b/c of the story with "sister" and "Reuben". heehee! oh please with sugar on top can we chat about Rooster? this is my puppy dog eyes coming to action. heehee!

Hey Wendy Pan! (i watched Peter Pan with my momma last night, b/c she was in the mood for it and i always look to the future with Wendy getting married to Peter. heehee) im gonna start caling you Wendy Darling. how cute is that!

Is there a tea party chat thread where we could go have a cuppa? I hate to interrupt the conversation here. Maybe we can make a thread, because I dearly miss our morning tea with the Darcy's.

GASP!! oh yes! one of us should make a new thread for daily morning tea parties with the Darcy's!! how fun! but where to put it so everyone will enjoy it with us? it would be a great place to just chat about anything!

[JackFavell]

Hey butterscotchie,

I just made a new chat thread!It's in General Chat. Here is the link:

http://silverscreenoasis.com/oasis3/vie ... f=8&t=3646

[movieman1957]

Let's try it over here.

7 Men From Now.

Randolph Scott is a man whose wife was murdered and he is out for revenge on the seven responsible.

SPOILERS

This is a movie that I think is first about revenge and then absolution. Scott's journey is to take his revenge on those that killed his wife but he also has a deep guilt he has to deal with. The two things a man needs to do for his family is provide for and protect them and he has failed to do both, at least as far as he is concerned.

As only movie fate would have it he meets up with and travels with a couple carrying the money stolen from the holdup. As the journey progresses Scott and Gail Russell form a bond that he cannot let become anything more. She is married and he has a job to do. Russell's husband appears to be no real catch and is involved because he needs the money. He has to provide for his wife though he may not like the way he has to do it.

As the film nears its climax the real parts of the characters personalities start to come out. There is redemption for some. Scott has recovered the money. He has no intention of keeping it. It has become a substitute for his wife. One shot bears it out. It is as if they were the family, Scott and the money box.



The work is not done. Russell' husband recovers his ethics and knows what he must do. He pays for it and in turn earns some respect from those who have toyed with him throughout. There are those who still want the money. The partnership is destroyed as they kill each other off. They still have to deal with Scott. We know who wins.

Scott has regained some of his pride. He has recovered the money. He has avenged his wife in the process. He thinks he can go back to be a sheriff. He can try to become what he was. Rusell delays her plans to continue west but holds the option that they will meet again. She is giving him time but they would, I think, get together at some point. There is still a road to go for Scott.

Just as a side note I think this has one of the more interesting shots to open a movie. Scott steps in to the camera with his back to it.



Lee Marvin is his usual nasty self. His relationship with Scott drives the movie more so than Scott's relationship with Russell because there is a history. Scott plays protector more than the husband but that is to be expected. At less than 80 minutes it is worth a look.

[JackFavell]

I'm sorry sweetie, I was going to answer you over on TCM tomorrow, I just can't think enough to ramble with all this work trying to get around at the other website.

The screen caps really are great! I will get back to you tomorrow on 7 Men. I am exhausted!

See you in the morning. Maybe I'll reply over here, I am not sure how well I can handle the other site.

[mrsl]

Movieman:

I'm surprised because it sounds like this is the first time you've seen Seven Men from Now. You know Randolph is one of my top five all time guys and this is one of his films where he finally get the girl. Well, not before the end of the credits, but it is understood she will be waiting for him. The thing I love about it is with all they go through to get that money to its destination, they are so subtly falling in love. Randolph was great for engulfing his ladies but in this he is completely tender and thoughtful. That may be because it's Gail Russell who was notoriously shy and afraid to move, which is why John Wayne was so careful of her in their two pairings

I also meant to say that if you plan on having tea parties, I hope everyone is invited, and am I entitled to ask which Darcy's you're discussing?.
.

[movieman1957]

Anne:

I have seen the movie several times but often in these discussions we have I tend to at least to write them for those who have never seen the film. It is easy enough to see that they are falling for each other but I think Scott is not going to force the issue while Russell is still married. He shows great restraint. I don't think he makes any assumptions at the end. He goes back to reestablish his life to then look to bring her with him.

I think the ending of "Westbound" is similar. He goes off and leaves Karen Steele to run the stage depot but they leave things open in the film to let one draw whether they get together.

The only major Scott film that comes to mind about getting the girl on film, if you will, is The Tall T. He and O'Sullivan hold onto each other on their way back to town. Hangman's Knot may work that way with Donna Reed but I am not sure.

I do recall Scott being one of your faves. You had a thread when Encore ran a tribute.

[JackFavell]

First of all, tea parties are open to one and all.

Secondly, I really enjoyed Seven Men From Now, mainly due to the incredible subtlety of all the performances. And of course, the coffee.

Actually, I found one of the most interesting things in the movie WAS the coffee - how important it was -the prominence it is given. Coffee is the only luxury out here in the west. It is needed. Coffee seems to be the excuse for subtext to come to the fore...it can also be a prelude to violence - in the first scene, for instance (which I LOVED). Scott shows up in the middle of nowhere, at the campfire of two nervous men. He literally just appears, on foot. He asks for a cup of coffee. As he drinks, the conversation turns to horses, the next most prominent item in the film. Here is the conversation as the two unknown men try to find out about the taciturn Scott. The men become increasingly skittish as Scott answers their questions:

"Mighty wet night for a man to be out."
"Sure is."
"You musta rode a long way."
"I walked."
"Aintcha got no horse?"
"Did have. (long pause) Chiricahua jumped me about ten miles back."
"He stole him?"
"He ate him."

Ahh, life is no picnic out here. Scott unnerves the men, and we start to see that he is on a quest. He comes from Silver Springs, where a murder has been committed. Boetticher's camera is on the two men's reactions the whole time, the one in the background does most of the talking, while we are allowed to peer at the other's face in the foreground, by the fire. His emotions are high, and we see how scared and jittery he is. The calmer man asks if anyone ever found the men who did it. Scott replies, "Two of them" at which point the calm man reaches for his gun. The camera quickly veers away to a shot of the horses outside the tent.... they thrash around wildly in the rain as we hear two more shots fired.



This is the set-up of Seven Men From Now. We found out the basic plot in the first minute of screen time - Scott is avenging his wife's murder, he found two of the men and has killed them, there are more men to find, the Indians are starving to death, Scott knows the Indian ways, and having a horse is imperative out here. Such is Boetticher's command of this film, that we are drawn into the mystery, because we are given only so much information.

[movieman1957]

The group also gives up a horse later for the same reason.

I never thought much about the coffee connection. I took it for granted that everyone drank whenever they could. Maybe it was to help with the water condition, partly to keep warm and parly as a social thing. However, whenever anyone goes to town for supplies coffee is right up there with beans, salt and anything else.

Personally, I can't stand coffee.

[JackFavell]

Me neither, unless there is a lot of ice cream in it.

Actually, it's a good thing I don't like it, since lately it gives me an almost immediate migraine.

I just find it interesting that at any tense moment, or any moment involving huge emotions, the coffee comes out.

[CineMaven]

Sorry for the interruption you Westerners, but if I don't say this...if I don't get this off my chest...I'll bust.

"THE OX-BOW INCIDENT" has got to be the most devastating western ever made!

There! I said it. <SIGH!!> I feel better.