At Random

[jdb1]

I don't understand the article. Maybe it's the accent.

Do they mean the sound of a particular language, or the sound of a native speaker of that language speaking English? I wouldn't cast a vote for any of the languages on the list -- "sexy" simply isn't a word I'd use to describe any of them, including my own. (I would walk 500 miles away from Ozspeak, but that's just my own personal prejudice. Sounds like a flat tire on a pothole-filled road to me.)

To my mind and ears, it isn't the accent, but the speaker and what is said that matters. A great many Americans can't make any sense at all out of the Scottish burr, but an equal number are very happy to listen to Sir Sean say anything at all. I don't think audiences of the past would have found Charles Boyer's way of talking any less "sexy" if he were German or Namibian. It was his way with words that counted, not the accent in which he spoke it. Perhaps the indentifying of the speaker with a particular accent is what makes people think that it's the accent that's appealing.

And I certainly agree with you, Chi-Man, there really isn't any such thing as an "American" accent, an "English" accent or any other for that matter. Especially now when regional speech is no longer corrected and standardized as it used to be. [My vote is for Brooklyn, even though there isn't one particular accent here any more either. I just always automatically vote for Brooklyn.]

I might find some languages more melifluous than others (and I'll have to think about which ones those might be), but the language (or accent) itself, in the absolute, isn't going to float my boat unless the person speaking it does.

[charliechaplinfan]

I have my own preferences in accents, hints rather than full bodied brogue is my preference. I don't care for a Down under accent, or a Scottish one but there can be acceptions to the rule, especially with the Scottish accent.

I love the way Charles Boyer speaks too, I could listen to him all night. I'm very fond of James Mason's accent too, Richard Burton's can be easy on the ears too.

I love watching foreign films with subtitles just so I can listen to the language, my favorites are French and Italian, they win hands down. I feel that I engage far more in the film if I can at least hear their language, dubbing doesn't do it for me.

I find I can talk about about specific people and accents but can't generalise with regards to country.

Even I can can spot differences in the American accents and I'm hopeless and differentiating between dialects.

[klondike]

According to Brit comedian Eddie Izzard, God sounds exactly like James Mason, and so whenever he does his Biblical skits, he always uses his James Mason voice for the Almighty.
(For Noah, he uses Sean Connery.)

[jdb1]

Alison, is it the actual accents of Mason and Burton that you like, or the very nice way in which they spoke? With speakers like that, I wonder if we can really separate the two factors.

It's nice that you can tell American regions through speech. I have noticed that so many "American" characters on British programs are either actually British, or they are Canadians, and I wonder how many of your countrymen can really hear the difference. Many Canadian actors on television here (and there are lots of them) have modified their speech to sound more "American," but there's always that occasional tell-tale "aboat" for about, or "sohrwree" for sorry (that one is hard to reproduce in letters) that gives them away. The Canadian actor Martin Short has said that he worked on his speech to sound more American because "Well, I wanted to work."

(Conversely to the above, it always amazes me that a country as relatively small as England can have so very many distinct regional accents. I think it's pretty cool.)

There was that thing on the BBC website earlier this year or late last year where English people attempted American speech, and I thought very few of them were anywhere close to effectively reproducing any kind of American accent. It wasn't a question of what we actually sound like, but of what we sound like to them. I remember that the one I thought came the closest was Irish or Welsh -- can't remember now.

[movieman1957]

According to Brit comedian Eddie Izzard, God sounds exactly like James Mason, and so whenever he does his Biblical skits, he always uses his James Mason voice for the Almighty.
(For Noah, he uses Sean Connery.)

"Cake or Death?"

[klondike]

Alison, is it the actual accents of Mason and Burton that you like, or the very nice way in which they spoke? With speakers like that, I wonder if we can really separate the two factors.

Interesting that Burton would be exampled, as he had to work quite hard to suppress his cascading Welsh lilt, back when his mates still called him Dickie Jenkins; listen to him as a callow youth in The Last Days of Dolwyn as he still struggles to subdue it, and fails a wee tad now & then.

Many Canadian actors . . . have modified their speech to sound more "American,"

And sometimes, to pass for British, as did (to my surprise) Walter Pidgeon!

I remember that the one I thought came the closest was Irish or Welsh -- can't remember now.

I'll wager it was the Taffy - I was always amused at how the ever delightful Emlyn Williams could portray Western ranchers & pioneers & frontier townsmen.

[charliechaplinfan]

Now you have my interest because I have so many questions.

With James Mason and Richard Burton, it is both the accent and the way the annunciate. Same too for Charles Boyer, when he plays romantic, he very romantic, I don't think he is particularly handsome but that voice makes all the difference.

The accents here are very varied. I wonder if it because we are a small and highly populated island that we have such a difference in the way we sound, it would never do to have 60 million people sounding the same.

To my ears although I can hear the variations of speech for me at least there is nothing comparable to our Geordie or Scouse accents in the very extreme nature. For Scouse (Liverpool) think the Beatles, for Geordie think Heather Mills or The Likely Lads. Perhaps it is because I am more attuned to our accents. Do you have American accents that you have to consciously tune into the speakers way of speaking?

When I think of classic American film stars in terms of accents some are more exagerated than others. John Wayne is the most obvious to me, can't mistake his accent. Cary Grant although not American does not sound English either. Errol Flynn again not American but certainly not Austrailian. James Stewart is very recogniseable as is Clark Gable. Marlon Brando, obviously recogniseable but do any other Americans talk like that? I couldn't place any American actor in terms of accent and where they were brought up.

[klondike]

If you grew up in N'Anglind (New England) like I did, and either stayed, or returned for good'n all, you can actually discern the differences in voices between Baystaters, Nutmeggers, Duhneasters, Yorkers, Rhodies & True Yanks.
But regardless of your personal reference, anyway residing more than fifty miles distant is described as being "from away".

[mrsl]

CCFan:
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I almost fell off my chair when you said Cary Grant did not sound English, but I guess he just went overboard when getting the Cockney out of his voice, he went too far to stay with the pure English. AAAhhhh now, Ronald Colman, he is a different story. As for the girls, I loved Greer Garsons voice in her first couple of movies when she still had her English/Irish lilt. Maureen O'Hara only sounded Irish when she got angry - even after all those years in H'wood, a little of the Irish came out when she was shouting at McClintock. Of course, the reason everyone sounded English is that the studios, when going to sound movies, felt that English sounded better coming from English people, so they hired actual English speaking teachers to re-train their actors, which is probably why Cary never sounded unusual.

I had a friend a while ago, who had traveled all over the U.S. and could tell where you were from just like Henry HIggins. I have trouble with the Southern accents, can't tell LA, from NC. Also OK and TX are close. Minnesota is definitely distinct, and so is Maine pretty much. Most of the characters on TV sound like here in the Midwest to me.
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[jdb1]

I totally agree with you, Anne, about how Hollywood tried to "Anglify" the speech of its actors, especially in the early days of sound. I always giggle when I hear the voice of a nasal, flat-toned actor like Jean Harlow say "I cahn't" or things like that -- it's so ridiculous.

I think here in NYC we are so accustomed to talking to people from everywhere else that we are pretty good at discerning what someone with an accent is saying. But I have met people from the Deep South whom I've had trouble understanding until I've been taking with them a while.

To my ears, most actors on TV today sound California, rather than Midwest. When I was young we used to make fun of the Beach Boys' accents on their records. It sounded really weird to us.

I'm wondering if the great variety of regional accents in England is tribal -- that is, the result of so many different languages being spoken by tribes who migrated to England from the continent. What is really amazing is the speed at which a regional accent is born, and how tenaciously its speakers cling to it. Even in writings of the 18th Century, you can find references to an American accent.

Think of the younger generation: starting in the 1980s, everyone was talking in this low-pitched, rather gutteral way that makes me think of Mercedes McCambridge as the demon in The Exorcist. At first, I thought the kids in my office all had strep throat (I'm not kidding). Now there is that singsong speech that goes up into a question mark at the end. That was always around, but now all the kids talk that way? You know? Like this?

[charliechaplinfan]

Anne, Cary Grant does not sound English, for clarification I asked my hubby's opinion, definetly not English, the accent is unplaceable, uniquely Cary Grant. He isn't a born and bred cockney, although that is a popular misconception about him, he did play one in Slyvia Scarlett. He was born in Bristol/the west country which in American miles is not very far but the good people of Bristol would die if they thought they sounded like a Cockney.

Klondike, I didn't see you reference to Richard Burton above until just now. Richard Burton did have a Welsh accent but it was a lilt rather than a full blown accent. He worked hard to remove it but just a smattering remained and that's part of it's charm.

It's often the way people speak too, like Richard Burton, I could listen to for hours. I couldn't abide listening to Tony Blair because he paused in the wrong places. President Obama although a good orator can sound to my ears condescending from time to time (hope I'm allowed that little criticism). Perhaps it's politicians but they are the two extreme examples.

Judith, youngsters speak like that here too, it must be from television and movies. It seperates the generations.

[jdb1]

It's often the way people speak too, like Richard Burton, I could listen to for hours. I couldn't abide listening to Tony Blair because he paused in the wrong places. President Obama although a good orator can sound to my ears condescending from time to time (hope I'm allowed that little criticism). Perhaps it's politicians but they are the two extreme examples.

Alison, I'm not offended by your criticism of Mr. Obama, and I hope no one else is. And I don't think it's necessarily politician-speak that you are hearing, but Harvard Law School-speak.

I've mentioned before that I have worked for dozens of attorneys who are graduates of Harvard Law, and almost all of them speak that way, male or female. It's how he was trained to orate and to argue a point. That tell-tale way he repeats for emphasis the last few words of his last sentence is a giveaway. . . . . . a giveaway.

(And he probably uses the "Harvard comma" as well in writing.)

[charliechaplinfan]

You mean there are more people who speak like that . He doesn't always sound condescending, just at times. He sounds like a man who knows his own mind and is willing to get off the fence.

I've just watched Jean Harlow, why do I link her to Brooklyn when I watch her, did she effect a Brooklyn accent in any of her films? I know she wasn't from Brooklyn but had a cosy upbringing in Kansas.

[jdb1]

No, Harlow doesn't sound like Brooklyn to me, but she, like many of the actresses of the day who played such parts, adopted that "hardboiled dame" accent that was urban rather than rural, and thus kind of all-purpose. For me, classic Brooklynspeak would be someone like Thelma Ritter (and, ugh, early Streisand, although she has since put a Midlantic veneer all over herself). I don't know if you know of Rhea Pearlman, primarily a television actress, but she has a true Brooklyn accent (as she is from Brooklyn), which sounds just lovely to my Brooklyn ears. She is married to actor Danny DeVito -- did you see them in Matilda maybe? (There's a Brooklyn sentence construction for you.)

By the way, I think I speak with at least a generic New York accent, since the harsher elements of Brooklynspeak were frowned upon in my family, but over the years many British people have asked me if I'm Canadian, which I find pretty funny.

[charliechaplinfan]

I know Rhea Pearlman and I've just watched Thelma Ritter in The Misfits so I know what you mean. I'm so atrociously bad at accents that I never dare to guess where anyone is from in case I mortally offend someone.

Talking at wishing the ground would open up and swallow me, a customer who comes in to our bank week on week had a nice swelled belly that seemed to come out from under the rib cage, so I asked her when her child was due, something I NEVER EVER do until someone has confirmed a happy event is on it's way. She wasn't pregnant, she said that she was bloated because of the time of the month, in my defence she was very bloated. I wished the ground would open up and swallow me. I'm never going to ask anyone ever again that question even if the look like a Zepplin unless I am certain.