Errol Flynn

[Western Guy]

Well, feaito, just want to add that as a dad, stepdad, grandpa and stepgrandpa, I'm crazy about babies, and the expression on your face at that tender year is priceless. Kudos to you for using it as your avatar here and as your Profile Pic on Facebook.

[charliechaplinfan]

It is an adorable picture Fernando.

I found a copy of Nora Eddington's memoirs in my library, it's not too thick and looks like it was published years ago, I'll let you know what I think.

I've seen the footage from Cuba, Stone and he doesn't look great in it. I think he'd been told he was dying so he was burning the candles at both ends until he went. The fact he went to Cuba and met with Castro and made a film and radio broadcasts with this hanging over him just adds to the complexity of the man.

[Western Guy]

Cool! So feaito is really Fernando. Hope you don't mind, Fernando, if I refer to you by your given name from now on.

I wonder if Errol did know he was dying at that point. He looked much older than 50 and still was chain-smoking and I'm sure imbibing heavily -- and who knows what else. I do know he suspected he was destined to a short life. Kinda reminds me of Mitchum, who really lived that "Baby, I don't care" attitude and continued to smoke and drink even against his doctor's warning and as his body was dramatically collapsing.

Tragic, but in a strange way you've got to admire people who choose to live life on their own terms. We can also include Dean Martin in that group.

[charliechaplinfan]

Now I'd read that Dean Martin's drinking was a mirage, he pretended to be a big imbiber but he wasn't and to prove it was his television programme that he controlled and was very succcessful. It doesn't exactly prove it but that was the last thing I read about Deano.

I do admire people who know what they want out of life and then go out and seize it.

Once again I'm sure I've read one of his wives saying that he knew but when reading about Flynn it's difficult to know what is the truth. He didn't have a biographer like you Stone.

[Western Guy]

Okay Alison, now you're being too sweet. But I appreciate the comment.

Actually, I'm not talking so much about Dean's drinking (btw: I saw one of his last ever performances in Vegas and he clearly was either drunk, stoned on Percodan, just not caring . . . or putting on a classic Dino stage act) as his smoking. I agree that at least at one point in his career Dean was not as heavy an imbiber as one would think but wisely realized the drunk swinger was a good image, which it definitely proved to be). But Dean, like Mitchum in particular, had severe respiratory problems - not sure but I think he also had lung cancer - yet never gave up the tar bar. From what I read, right before he died Mitchum climbed out of bed to light himself a final cigarette. Dean, as well, was never too far from a smoke. When I saw him at The Sands he kept those cigarettes a-burnin'. And Duke -- well, his own daughter said that John Wayne pretty much used only one match a day to keep his three-to-five pack a day habit going.

Makes you wonder if these fellas got so much into their image that they believed they were indestructible -- hear me, Yul? - or with all the fame and wealth people like us could only dream of, they simply did not care.

One last note: Dean at The Sands could completely get away with his goofball act, slurring his words and forgetting the lyrics and not finishing his songs. Audiences laughed. Yet the the same thing happened with Elvis (and Dolores was there at that final Vegas show), it was tragic and pathetic. Elvis, for one thing, was sweaty and bloated; Dean was emaciated enough to looked hardly better than a concentration camp survivor - made worse by those enormous glasses he wore. Yet was Dean really in any better condition than Elvis at this point? Personally, from my perspective of being in the audience, I'd say Dino was definitely out of it.

[JackFavell]

Well, I think there's a point where you may care but it IS an addiction, you may want to quit and can't. Once you've been diagnosed and death is imminent I don't know that I would want to quit, might as well concentrate on other aspects of life than torturing yourself by trying to quit when it won't matter.

My mother was a diabetic and a smoker for life and positively couldn't quit. She tried at least 3 times that I can remember. She died at 48. We don't really know what these guys did privately to stop or not. It's easy to say that they stupidly smoked when they shouldn't have but the evidence was cloudy at that time, and if you lived hard, and wanted to die young when you start at age 14, or even 18, the chances of stopping late in life when you know better are pretty slim. No one who wants to die young thinks about the agony they will go through before they die. The hard liver will think that it's a quick thing.

[Western Guy]

Well, in truth I can't disagree with you, Jack, as I come from a family rife with addictions. My dad, for instance, was an alcoholic who died of liver disease at 52. My younger sister and brother have run the gamut when it comes to substances.

As for the smoking - very true. We were just talking about that a short time ago. Everybody in those days smoked it seemed; in fact if you did not indulge in tobacco you were viewed as odd man/woman out. The movies in particular made smoking both fashionable and romantic (with a special nod to Paul Henreid). But in Dean Martin's case, it has been reported by more than one source that after his son was killed, Dean just seemed to stop caring. If he drank and smoked to excess, so what? seemed to be his credo. I mean, sad as hell, and it was sad to sit at The Sands and notice all too clearly the self-destructiveness apparent on Dean both in appearance and performance. Especially tragic when recalling the days when Dean and The Boys were so vibrant and alive!

[charliechaplinfan]

It would be a far shorter list to list who didn't smoke.

Dean Martin is so well known for his drinking that I'd never given a thought to his smoking. I did read his biography a long time ago and his biographer thought he just gave up because he was bored, bored of living, everything came to easy to him, I don't know if that was true. I only know I love the music from his era and much as I like Frank's singing, Dean's has a more seductive and warm tone about it.

It's easy to judge the smoking habits of yesteryear, it wasn't known about as widely if at all in their era and when alcohol was banned or availabe in who knows what concotion in the speakeasies, smokes were affordable by everyone. I'm pretty sure if I were born then I'd be a smoker.

Do you regret seeing that show Stone? Would you have preferred to remember him younger or does it not matter?

Elvis died when I was 6, I love Elvis and now I'm nearly the age he was when he died the abuse he must have put his body through is more apparent.

Addiction is a terrible thing, with someone like Errol Flynn, I don't think anyone or circumstance forced him down that route. With Elvis and some others I'm not as sure.

[Western Guy]

Well, of that short list you mention, Alison, only Cagney comes to mind. His wife, who was a heavy smoker, yet outlived her husband, had to actually give tips to Jim on how to properly smoke a cigarette when required to do so in a scene, such as that final death house scene in Angels With Dirty Faces.Cagney only inhales and exhales a puff or two, but does so pretty convincingly.

Heavens no! How could I regret seeing Dean Martin in Vegas? Definitely it was not the Dean of old but, to me at least, he still radiated a magic. But if I had my druthers, certainly would have traded that experience to watch the old Rat Pack in action. Now that had to be real Magic!

[feaito]

Well, feaito, just want to add that as a dad, stepdad, grandpa and stepgrandpa, I'm crazy about babies, and the expression on your face at that tender year is priceless. Kudos to you for using it as your avatar here and as your Profile Pic on Facebook.

Thank you Stone; my wife and I do not have any children, but currently we have fallen in love with my younger sister's 2 month old-baby, Josefina (Josephine in English). Since my younger sister is 16 years my junior and 19 years younger than my wife, her daughter is like a granddaughter for us

[Western Guy]

Wonderful, Fernando. Enjoy the little angel. My gosh, how quickly they grow. Was out visiting my grandkids today and the mind boggles at how fast they change within just the few short weeks since I saw them last. Each day is a precious gift.

[feaito]

Yes I know. On Monday my sister is leaving for Miami, with my niece and my mother for almost 2 months!! I'm going to miss the baby sorely...and she's gonna come back totally changed

[Western Guy]

Take heart, amigo. Changed - inevitably yes. Totally - no.

Just always remember to savor the moments. Must confess with my own kids I did not always enjoy those special times as much as I should have - responsibilities, pressures, etc. Can tell you now, would give almost anything to better appreciate those days. Suppose that's why God created grandparents.

[charliechaplinfan]

I coludn't even name one movie star who didn't smoke. Jimmy Cagney was an original in every sense of the word. Did I ever that my mother can't stand Jimmy Cagney? It's a real irrational thing 'get him off, get him off' she'd yell 'I can't stand him' my dad's favourite movie Yankee Doodle Dandy, we could never watch it together. She's not like that about anyone else. I love Cagney, I can't imagine why anyone wouldn't.

You're going to miss Josefina Fernando. I'm sorry she's going home to Miami, Grandma's going too, I don't blame her, hope you're able to see her on skype, will you be able to take a holiday to visit?. With Libby being 9 and Joe 6 I'm still very hands on, both are like chalk and cheese, they agree on practically nothing, in the wrong moods the slightest thing has to be argued about like they are taking part in a strategical battle and every bit conceeded is so very important and I hate being the referee, that in itself is a minefield. They are both adorable, I've just found a note in my pocket from Joe saying I'm the best Mummy in the world. How can you tell a child like that off? It's funny how in our family at least, Daddy has more patience and is more similar to Libby whereas Joe and I are alike in personality and sympathy. They've both been told, we want to be grandparents, I want to help with the child rearing all over again, apart from the sleepless nights, that's the only bit I'd pass on.

[feaito]

Take heart, amigo. Changed - inevitably yes. Totally - no.

Just always remember to savor the moments. Must confess with my own kids I did not always enjoy those special times as much as I should have - responsibilities, pressures, etc. Can tell you now, would give almost anything to better appreciate those days. Suppose that's why God created grandparents.

Thanks Stone