WHAT FILMS HAVE YOU SEEN LATELY?

[moira finnie]

I recently watched Spirits of the Dead again too, MichiganJ.

Btw, did anyone else feel sorry for Edgar Allan Poe on his 200th birthday on Jan. 19th, since his day was overshadowed by the Inauguration? Yeah, I know he's dead and impervious to care, but who knows, he was a sensitive soul. Perhaps it would have bothered him. Maybe Jon and Chris can share some different views of the ways that Poe was celebrated in the Baltimore area (though I believe that Philly, who also likes to claim Edgar as a native son, also had a Poe fest).

My first viewing of Spirits of the Dead was in college when my roomies and I thought it was a wonderfully decadent if a fairly craptastic movie designed to make 18 year olds feel sophisticated and daring. Jane does look beautiful in the Vadim sequence, as does the "let's have medieval night at the chateau" atmosphere in general, (probably kudos ought to go to cinematographer Claude Renoir for the beautiful look of this sequence), but how did this guy Roger Vadim get such a big reputation when I was growing up? Could it be that boffing Deneuve, Bardot and Fonda got him a giant lifetime pass in the movie world of his time? Only Les Liaisons Dangereuses (1959) with Gérard Philipe and Jeanne Moreau seems to have held up well, (probably because of the classic source material and the actors brought Vadim up quite a few pegs). Maybe he had more of a sophisticated veneer, but sometimes his movies remind me alot of those doozys made by John Derek over the years.

If I'd never seen Fellini or Malle before or since seeing this movie, they would not seem like geniuses, based on this viewing, though I can see how Ark felt positively about the Fellini sequence, "Toby Dammit". I do have to respectfully disagree that this is the only time the Maestro went the horror route--holy cats, have you seen Fellini Satyricon?

In any case, for this red-blooded girl, any Terence Stamp and Alain Delon is better than none.

[MichiganJ]

moirafinnie,

I completely agree! Les Liaisons Dangereuses is the only Vadim film I've seen that works at all (well, portions of ...And God Created Woman hold up quite well, too. I'll let you decide which parts, though.)


And Mr. Arkadin,
I've been "cleaning out" the DVR, so this was the October TCM showing of Spirits, too (didn't know that TCM had nudity). Johnny Guitar, too (that may not have been TCM, can't remember). You hit the nail on the head, though, about the psychological aspect of the film. I find myself thinking about the character motivations, even now. How great is it that the "bad guys" were accused of a crime they didn't commit, and, rather than clear their name, they instead go ahead and commit a crime. And Mercedes McCambridge...now that's one woman who needs a few sessions on a couch....

[Mr. Arkadin]

but how did this guy Roger Vadim get such a big reputation when I was growing up? Could it be that boffing Deneuve, Bardot and Fonda got him a giant lifetime pass in the movie world of his time? Only Les Liaisons Dangereuses (1959) with Gérard Philipe and Jeanne Moreau seems to have held up well, (probably because of the classic source material and the actors brought Vadim up quite a few pegs). Maybe he had more of a sophisticated veneer, but sometimes his movies remind me alot of those doozys made by John Derek over the years.

I'm not a big Vadim fan, but I love Blood and Roses (1961), a beautifully shot female vampire film. I've begged for TCM to show it on Underground, but no dice so far.

[Mr. Arkadin]

If I'd never seen Fellini or Malle before or since seeing this movie, they would not seem like geniuses, based on this viewing, though I can see how Ark felt positively about the Fellini sequence, "Toby Dammit". I do have to respectfully disagree that this is the only time the Maestro went the horror route--holy cats, have you seen Fellini Satyricon?

Seen it. I don't know that I'd call it horror (maybe horrible), but I agree with you that this is not Fellini's greatest work which I consider to be the years of 1953-65. He did some interesting things after that period (most notably The Clowns [1972]), but if you're expecting his early genius in his later output, you'll probably be disappointed. And no, I'm not a fan of Amarcord (1973).

[moira finnie]

moirafinnie,

I completely agree! Les Liaisons Dangereuses is the only Vadim film I've seen that works at all (well, portions of ...And God Created Woman hold up quite well, too. I'll let you decide which parts, though.)

Um, having seen ..And God Created Woman, I suspect that you need to be a guy to really appreciate those parts, all of which belonged to BB at the time, Mich.

And Mr. Arkadin,
I've been "cleaning out" the DVR, so this was the October TCM showing of Spirits, too (didn't know that TCM had nudity).

Nudity is copacetic after midnight on TCM, as is gore, hence, TCM Underground gets edgy at times. If impressionable kiddies are up then watching movies, one has bigger problems in your household than explaining the occasional bare bottom or bosom to the tykes.

I'm not a big Vadim fan, but I love Blood and Roses (1961), a beautifully shot female vampire film. I've begged for TCM to show it on Underground, but no dice so far.

Blood and Roses (1961)is one I haven't seen. I'll give it a try someday, as long as it isn't too gory. Thanks for the tip.

[Fellini] did some interesting things after that period (most notably The Clowns [1972]), but if you're expecting his early genius in his later output, you'll probably be disappointed. And no, I'm not a fan of Amarcord (1973).

I like The Clowns too, which was shown--believe it or not--as a special on NBC in the early '70s. Of course, Fellini couldn't resist his fascination with the grotesque in that one either. That giant boob (excuse me, sensitive souls) in Amarcord was, once again, simply horrible but simultaneously funny in a lame Woody Allen sort of way. I like City of Women, and Ginger and Fred has its moments. I haven't seen And the Ship Sailed On, but should try it sometime and Casanova is one I've tried to watch, but I find it depressing and Donald Sutherland is a tough sell with me at the best of times.

If you have a soft spot for Fellini, which I share, maybe you'd like this story:

One day, while making The Madwoman of Chaillot (1969), cast member Richard Chamberlain was out for a Sunday stroll in Cap Ferrat on his day off when he happened upon Federico Fellini, Danny Kaye and his co-star Katharine Hepburn having a bottle of champagne and a heated discussion. As Chamberlain stood by, Hepburn blurted out to Fellini: "Oh, Federico, your early movies were just fine, straightforward, realistic. But then, like that crazy Picasso, you've gone berserk. I mean, that absurd Juliet of the Spirits. What on earth was that all about?"

While the others at the table were taken aback by someone having the temerity to challenge such a gifted director, Hepburn stalked off to her room to retire without waiting for any reply from the non-plussed table. Watching Kate climb the stairs and disappear, Fellini said, with a touch of sadness, "She is afraid of the night. She is afraid of her dreams."

Maybe Hepburn and Fellini were both right.

[Mr. Arkadin]

Moira,

I loved that story. Proof that Fellini was a very perceptive human being as well as a great filmmaker. I see bits of good things in almost everything he did, but I did not like Roma, or Satyricon at all. I felt that much of his earlier work was theme and thought based. While he would often show some incredible images, it took reasoning and questioning to figure his intent. His work from Roma on, became much more graphic and left less to the imagination. I also thought much of it was rather tasteless. While there are things about Amarcord I like, such as the old man in the tree ("I want a woman!") and the beauty of the pictorials, it just doesn't flow together cohesively enough for me (I know, this was the same guy who made 8 1/2!) and seems more like a series of vignettes than a film. Perhaps that was his intention as these were remembrances of his youth. The film has a sweetness to it, but did not live up to what I was expecting from his former work. I've seen Ginger and Fred as well, but not City of Women, Ship Sailed On or Casanova. I probably should check these out, but am always finding new (to me) things that I haven't seen, so I haven't gotten around to them. I'm sorry if what I said seemed a little abrupt. I was just writing quickly and did not really look at what I wrote.

[moira finnie]

I'm sorry if what I said seemed a little abrupt. I was just writing quickly and did not really look at what I wrote.

Huh? I didn't see anything abrupt.

I was trying to follow my new, already broken resolution to reply asap to others posts when they seem directed in my general direction. I'm glad you appreciated that unlikely but perhaps apt scene between Hepburn & Fellini too.

This whole little off-shoot of this thread with you and MichiganJ makes me want to see a Roger Vadim movie again (something I never thought I'd write), and to re-acquaint myself with some of Fellini's later, admittedly squirrelier movies, when he abandoned narrative for effect and private memory.

Now, if I could just snag a copy of Louisa (1950) with the estimable Spring Byington, perhaps I could annoy Fernando for a little while too?

[feaito]

Dear Moira, You could not annoy me in the least
BTW, I'm always willing to share copies of my films with friends -so you can PM in that respect-, the only drawback for some American pals is that the films, like "Louisa", that I record off Cinecanal Classics have fixed Spanish subtitles.

[Mr. Arkadin]

I'm sorry if what I said seemed a little abrupt. I was just writing quickly and did not really look at what I wrote.

Huh? I didn't see anything abrupt.

I was trying to follow my new, already broken resolution to reply asap to others posts when they seem directed in my general direction. I'm glad you appreciated that unlikely but perhaps apt scene between Hepburn & Fellini too.

This whole little off-shoot of this thread with you and MichiganJ makes me want to see a Roger Vadim movie again (something I never thought I'd write), and to re-acquaint myself with some of Fellini's later, admittedly squirrelier movies, when he abandoned narrative for effect and private memory.

Now, if I could just snag a copy of Louisa (1950) with the estimable Spring Byington, perhaps I could annoy Fernando for a little while too?

Cool. Sometimes I re-read things I write, and think "Gee, that sounds kind of harsh." which was my concern here. Glad it was not taken that way.

You can watch Blood and Roses on Youtube. Here is the first clip:

[youtube][/youtube]

This is a pretty poor color print and transfer. It should look spectacular restored. It's based upon the old Carmilla novel (as was Vampyr [1932]) and Vadim does a good job creating a film that's more dreamlike than horror.

[MichiganJ]

I like some of Fellini's later films, particularly Amarcord (the vignette structure took a viewing or two to get used to, though.) I seem to remember liking Roma okay, but I can't say I remember too much about it (which, for a Fellini film, says a lot). Was that the one with all of the endless shots of motorcycles?

Mr. Arkadin,
Thanks for posting the link to Blood and Roses (I can watch it on my wife's laptop). I'm unfamiliar with the film, but almost any vampire movie, particularly those based on Camilla, are worth viewing. Vampyr is a particular favorite (the new Criterion print is much better than the older Image release.) I assume you know Hammer's The Vampire Lovers, too. Not great, but it does star Ingrid Pitt.

Moirafinnie,

I was thinking the same thing about watching a Vadim film. Not sure what I'll watch, but I want to see if my earlier assessment holds true. Anything but Barbarella, though. What a missed opportunity.....

[Mr. Arkadin]

I like some of Fellini's later films, particularly Amarcord (the vignette structure took a viewing or two to get used to, though.) I seem to remember liking Roma okay, but I can't say I remember too much about it (which, for a Fellini film, says a lot). Was that the one with all of the endless shots of motorcycles?

Mr. Arkadin,
Thanks for posting the link to Blood and Roses (I can watch it on my wife's laptop). I'm unfamiliar with the film, but almost any vampire movie, particularly those based on Camilla, are worth viewing. Vampyr is a particular favorite (the new Criterion print is much better than the older Image release.) I assume you know Hammer's The Vampire Lovers, too. Not great, but it does star Ingrid Pitt.

My personal favorite of Fellini's work is Il Bidone (1955), but I like everything through Juliet of the Spirits (1965). With Juliet, I felt his work reached a height and complexity that he was never able to top. Unfortunately, I think he felt for a time that each film had to surpass the previous one, which led to some overblown works in my opinion, particularly Satyricon. I thought Toby Dammit worked well for him (as did The Clowns), because he was working for others and within limitations. With Amarcord, he seemed to finally abandon the excess and concentrated on just making something he enjoyed.

As for Blood and Roses, if you like The Vampire Lovers, you'll probably enjoy this. I also see ties to Bava's Black Sunday (1960). Another good one is Dracula's Daughter (1936).

[mrsl]

Sorry I have no idea what any of the movies mentioned in the last 5 or 6 posts were about so I can't join in on that conversation. So I'm moving my post to the Western thread. I really didn't mean to interrupt your trains of thought. I didn't realize I was breaking into a confab until I backtracked and learned how long you guys have been talking.

Anne

[bryce]

This philistine prefers 8 1/2.

I enjoy his later films simply because they are just the type of excessive (pretentious) ridiculousness that I believe all great artists delve into after they've "topped themselves" one too many times.

[MichiganJ]

I think I'm with "philistine" Bryce, 8 1/2 is probably my favorite Fellini. Although I love Giulietta Masina so much, it may actually be Nights of Cabiria. One that I'll admit I really didn't like (and have only seen once, so my opinion might change) is La Dolce Vita. Perhaps it was because I'd heard/read so much about it it just couldn't live up to its reputation. Plus the "orgy" scene, so outrageous in its day, is now rather amusing. (Anita Ekberg and the opening helicopter shot are still fabulous, though.) Satyricon is two hours wasted...

Dracula's Daughter is a masterpiece and I also love Black Sunday (Barbara Steele was one of my first crushes).

While I like a lot of Italian cinema, (Antonioni is another favorite) I must admit I can't stand the fact they shot silent and dubbed all of the dialogue. Even in the best Fellini's, (or Leone's for that matter), when the dialogue is even slightly off, my attention is drawn away from the story and I'm taken completely out of the picture. My problem, I know, but what can you do...

Anne, sorry to have turned the thread into Fellini 101. Don't know where to put the "international" film discussions.

[feaito]

I watched the interesting "The X Files I want to believe" (2008); it was hard to take at times for me (I'm becoming more easy to shock, especially when it comes to gorish stuff...), but worth watching. I liked the series and I've liked the films, especially when they deal with E.T. (this was not the case)