John Wayne, Lest We Forget

Discussion of the actors, directors and film-makers who 'made it all happen'
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JackFavell
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Re: John Wayne, Lest We Forget

Post by JackFavell »

Thanks guys! I just get an idea in my head that won't leave me alone till I write it down. I never know whether it's bull-oney until I post it. :D

Chris, you know what struck me about Laurie this time? The way that, even if she disagrees with Marty, she still gets him a horse and a gun so he can follow Ethan. She brings him his coats and clothes, just like Martha, has Martha's steadfastness, but I suspect that she is sterner stuff. She would be a real partner for him, not just the type to stay and wait, or convince, like Martha did. I can see Laurie working the land or helping ride herd or maybe rounding up horses. Whatever they decide to do, there will be plenty of outspoken fights, but in the end, she'll help him, and not just by expecting him to stay around there. I think she even says something to the effect that she has only stayed around the homestead because she was waiting for Marty. She's ready to travel, to make their own place in the world, perhaps turning her back on the homestead, though I am sure she would remain close to her parents. I picture them getting letters from her from now on. The last thing she will do is let Marty go on an adventure without her now.
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movieman1957
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Re: John Wayne, Lest We Forget

Post by movieman1957 »

I think you're right about Laurie. Martha, it seems, settled for Aaron. Laurie will have what she wants.
Chris

"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana."
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JackFavell
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Re: John Wayne, Lest We Forget

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When Ethan goes back to find the bodies, he yells out Martha several times, but NEVER ONCE calls out Aaron's name, though Aaron is his own brother.

I don't think Ethan wants a new beginning. I'm tempted to say that he wants his past back in any number of ways. But of course, we can't ever do that. He's made so many mistakes that I could see how he would want to go back to the moment he left the ranch and NOT go, but then maybe he would want to go back farther and correct other mistakes in the far past, ones with Martha and Aaron. It's like a self reflexive mirror in a mirror, reflecting on and on,the guilt extends back into time for infinity.

When Ethan makes the decision to rest the horses after they are tricked into leaving the ranch, and Marty goes flying back the 40 miles only to find it burned and everyone dead, there is an entire scene given to Ethan alone as he ponders his decisions. To me, it was obvious that Ethan doubts himself, or was mad at his own decision about resting the horses...he knows it's the right thing to do, and yet, he can't stand that he has to make that decision. I like to think this is a mimic of his past with Martha - he knew it was the right thing to go away, but he still hates that he made that decision to give her up. Sometimes the right thing leads to more mistakes than the wrong thing to do. Tradition or convention would have it that Ethan should bow out gracefully, but this following of tradition leads to a misery.

He passes Marty and his lame or even dead horse on the way back, making Ethan the first to find the farm in ruins. It's awful to be right all the time, especially under those circumstances. This really sets up Ethan's finding the bodies well, you can see how guilty he feels that he fell for such a trick by the Commanches, but also there is the underlying hint in his face that it is his fault that they all died. If he had gone back sooner.... If he hadn't gone at all....If he hadn't left the ranch the first time....if Aaron had gone instead....

Marty is right too. If Ethan had listened to Marty quicker, when Marty said the trail didn't look right... well, things might have been different too...and this just sets up the whole hatred of Marty even more. No one likes the person who shows him up. Marty is who Ethan used to be. He's the future Ethan. He will not let tradition ruin his life. He is going to do what's in his heart. No wonder Ethan hates him. He seems to make all the decisions that Ethan didn't make, and even though Ethan was 'right', he was never happy. In a way, Marty is righter.
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movieman1957
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Re: John Wayne, Lest We Forget

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Yelling Martha's name is important in knowing his feeling that was only hinted at before. I think also the shot Ford gives us from inside the building, reminding us of the opening shot, of Wayne's reaction tells us everything we need. There's no point in showing it even if he could. It's like when Brad runs into the Indian camp. Their reaction and the music tell us everything again.

I think Ethan's reflection when he is rubbing down his horse is what he thinks he will find and the idea that he maybe should have stayed home. I don't think for a minute that he second guesses himself about resting the horses. He knew there is no way the horses would last.

What past would Ethan want? It's been full of war and loneliness and wandering. I imagine there were times that might have been interesting but what is left for him when that door closes on him at the end. I don't think he's going to take up Aaron's farm. I don't think he's going to work for the Jorgensens. I think he's going to get on that horse and go. He may wander yet again but I don't think he's filled with anger and resentment and hurt the way he was at the beginning.

Maybe I'm throwing my wishes on the character but he is now more alone than ever. There must be a better life. It's all about replacing the purpose of it. He's spent ten years, or so, looking for Debbie and at the end he couldn't do what he set out to do. There must be something productive waiting for him.
Chris

"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana."
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JackFavell
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Re: John Wayne, Lest We Forget

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I see what you are saying, I'm thinking he would like to relive his secret past, not the past that actually happened, if that makes sense. The past before that door opened and Martha looked out. The past of his dreams, if you will, not of reality.

I completely agree he will get on his horse and go, he's been 'going away' for so long he can't stop now. but I don't think he knows what to do with himself now.
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movieman1957
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Re: John Wayne, Lest We Forget

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JackFavell wrote: but I don't think he knows what to do with himself now.
That is it.
Chris

"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana."
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pvitari
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Re: John Wayne, Lest We Forget

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Lots of John Wayne in January! (Haven't seen a specific date yet, but definitely January.) In addition to their release of The Quiet Man, Olive is also releasing three more John Wayne 1930s b-westerns on DVD and Blu-ray. Er... YAY!

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Rita Hayworth
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Re: John Wayne, Lest We Forget

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I always wanted to get Frontier Horizon ... one of my earlier JOHN WAYNE favorites ... :D Thanks pvitari!
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movieman1957
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Re: John Wayne, Lest We Forget

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It seems odd giving those old things a Blu Ray treatment! Plenty of decent stuff they could work on.
Chris

"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana."
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pvitari
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Re: John Wayne, Lest We Forget

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Uh, well, I consider John Wayne B-westerns to be more than "decent stuff" and the westerns fans are THRILLED that these films, which for years have only been seen in lousy dupey versions, are being released in such crystal-clear pristine transfers. The fact that three more are already on the way tells me that the first four sold very well.

That said, Olive IS releasing plenty of other product on Blu-ray/DVD. Their other January releases, besides the also already announced The Quiet Man, are:

Ticks
Cujo
Indiscreet
It's In the Bag

So we're getting EIGHT FILMS from Olive in January, three of which happen to be westerns which have a devoted following. Not only is there no reason for complaint, this is absolutely fantastic news for movie buffs. But oh my achin' wallet! ;)

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movieman1957
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Re: John Wayne, Lest We Forget

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Didn't mean to make waves. I''m a huge western fan and have seen most of them in my looking for old Wayne films. Sure, they've had lousy prints of them but I've found most of the films interchangeable and fairly plain saved by great stunt work. But, as I say, that's just me.
Chris

"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana."
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JackFavell
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Re: John Wayne, Lest We Forget

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I know you were just registering surprise, Chris, that they were going straight for the B's, rather than restoring something with a bigger impact. It always makes me wonder when they restore a movie like say, something from the 80's before getting around to hugely famous classic films. And it's pretty early in the blu ray craze to be getting to these little B's, not that I'm complaining.
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Rita Hayworth
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Re: John Wayne, Lest We Forget

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movieman1957 wrote:It seems odd giving those old things a Blu Ray treatment! Plenty of decent stuff they could work on.
I know how you feel ... I am the same way Chris!
RedRiver
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Re: John Wayne, Lest We Forget

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TICKS?
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pvitari
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Re: John Wayne, Lest We Forget

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I don't think there is anything "odd" in the slightest about releasing the early films of one of the most popular actors ever on blu-ray, and am actually puzzled that any film buff would think so. I would hope that film buffs would regard the release of ANY older film on blu-ray as a great thing, unless it was a really awful transfer. I would say the same for Cujo and Ticks, two films that don't particularly interest me but definitely have their fans too.

There are many factors in the decisions to release this or that older film on Blu-ray, starting with what shape the original elements are in, how much work and money is required to create a master that is sufficient for blu-ray, if anyone is even interested in spending that money for make that master, and how many copies the blu-rays (and standard DVD versions) will sell, because even the most popular classic today is a niche product.

In the case of the John Wayne 1930s b-westerns, my guess is the elements are in good shape and they can make a blu-ray master without spending an inordinate amount of money and time (especially since they probably don't do any digital clean-up, which is very expensive), and they sell well (again, a guess). They're a natural for blu-ray -- they look fantastic. Fans have wanted good copies of these films since the advent of the home video era, and now, thank goodness, we finally have them. More power to Olive! Go team!
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