Eek, lots to reply to!
Your penpal could sound a few ways, even assuming that she's a local. A lot of it may have to do with whether she spends most of her time in the country or in the town. Town accents are less pronounced, often by far. Also, as you mention, Redcar is about as north as you can get and still be in Yorkshire. Her accent is far more likely to be flavoured by more northern ones than traditional Yorkshire ones.
Yep, go back far enough and people lived and died in very tiny geographical areas. Literally people would never leave their village and there certainly weren't many opportunities to even hear a voice from somewhere else. That's still true to a point even today. The village in Yorkshire I grew up in was populated almost entirely by families who had lived there for as many generations as they could trace back. It's changing now because of new housing estates and rising real estate prices but back in the 80s, the vicar, the schoolmaster and the doctor were really the only people expected to not be local.
East Anglia basically boils down to Norfolk and Suffolk (the two counties directly north of Essex, where I was born). I hadn't really thought of the East Anglian accent as influencing American, as it's not one of the more pronounced English accents. Maybe that's pretty telling in itself.
A Geordie is someone from Newcastle (pronounced in the south to rhyme with parcel, in the north to rhyme with tassel). The Geordie accent is very pronounced. A friend of mine went to university up there and I had a lot of trouble understanding people when I was there. Incidentally, people in Newcastle speak Geordie, people in Sunderland (literally across the river) speak Mackem. The two cities are major rivals in pretty much everything and they hate each other, so it isn't difficult to keep any differences apparent.
Mel, the 'dook' you remember isn't directly from 'duke', it's from 'duck', and it's an affectionate term but one often used generally as an honorific. Different parts of the country will pronounce it differently (in Yorkshire, 'duck' rhymes precisely with 'look') and some use 'ducky'. And all that said, it may well originate with 'duke', just as in London a lot of people call women 'duchess' in a similar way to New York cabbies calling women 'lady' (I have no idea if they really do, but they seem to do it all the time in the movies).
There are different honorifics all around the country. One common one is 'love' (again to rhyme with 'look' in Yorkshire), but it's usually something that you would say to someone of the opposite sex. Men can call women 'love' and women can call men 'love'. No worries. Yet one group of men I knew used it for everyone, which was highly confusing. They were all warehousemen and certainly not gay, but it did seem very strange to be called 'love' by a man!
Many of the younger people you knew in Yorkshire during the war may have not been locals. There was a lot of relocation going on, especially of kids from the southeast which was being heavily bombed, and Yorkshire was a popular destination.
I know your 'mild' story from experience. I've finally found a decent 'British' pub/restaurant here in Phoenix, that sells a lot of traditional British fare, but there's so much they really don't get. I ordered roast beef last time I was there and it was really good; but while the beef is available all week, apparently they only make Yorkshire pudding on Sundays. That's nigh on heresy: you simply cannot eat roast beef without Yorkshires.
Anne, yes a 'quid' is a 'pound', just as a 'buck' is a dollar'. I still think of a pound being a dollar and a half, as it used to be for so long, just as a US dollar was a Canadian dollar and a half. Now the US dollar sucks royally, so is isn't that easy. Right now a quid is just over two bucks.
'Quid' is pretty common, but there are other slang terms too. The other common one is 'knicker'. Five pounds = five quid = five knicker = a fiver.
accents
Dawtrina or whomever wants to chime in--
Hope this isn't offensive.
My sister-in-law recently discovered that "bugger" (as in "bugger off") was a swear word and seemed pretty shocked by it. (Apparently my husband's grandfather used to say it all the time and so she thought it wasn't bad) Anyway, just how severe a swear word is it? I know at one time it referred to anal sex, but how bad is it considered now? Characters in Terry Pratchett books, for example, seem to be constantly calling people "buggers" or saying "bugger off," which led me to believe that it wasn't a particularly nasty word anymore?
Hope this isn't offensive.
My sister-in-law recently discovered that "bugger" (as in "bugger off") was a swear word and seemed pretty shocked by it. (Apparently my husband's grandfather used to say it all the time and so she thought it wasn't bad) Anyway, just how severe a swear word is it? I know at one time it referred to anal sex, but how bad is it considered now? Characters in Terry Pratchett books, for example, seem to be constantly calling people "buggers" or saying "bugger off," which led me to believe that it wasn't a particularly nasty word anymore?
"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars. "~~Wilde
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jdb1
When I was a teen I was also surprised by the British usage of this word when I first heard it, since it was a part of everyone's vocabulary in NYC in my childhood back in the Stone Ages of the 1950s. After all, it was "musician" and "beatnik" talk to say "Don't bug me, man!" and a "bugger" was used to mean a pest; a literal sort of use, since bugs are pests, especially on your person. The word was used by everyone in "polite" company, and it wasn't at all uncommon to refer to someone, affectionately, as "that little bugger."traceyk wrote:Dawtrina or whomever wants to chime in--
Hope this isn't offensive.
My sister-in-law recently discovered that "bugger" (as in "bugger off") was a swear word and seemed pretty shocked by it. (Apparently my husband's grandfather used to say it all the time and so she thought it wasn't bad) Anyway, just how severe a swear word is it? I know at one time it referred to anal sex, but how bad is it considered now? Characters in Terry Pratchett books, for example, seem to be constantly calling people "buggers" or saying "bugger off," which led me to believe that it wasn't a particularly nasty word anymore?
Similarly, the word is in common use in the military (remember me, the former Navy wife?). If you have to pack up your gear and get out fast, that's "bugging out." I think there was even an entire M*A*S*H episode about a bug-out. I hear the word "bugger used constantly in British sitcoms shown here in the US, and although there don't seem to be quite so as many strictures on British TV as there can be here, I would guess that the word can't be all that awful any more, or it wouldn't be in such constant and light-hearted use, naughty rather than obscene.
It's a question of changing mores -- I still can't bring myself to use the work "s*ck" (and I don't mean "sick," "sack" or "sock") in anything but its most literal and harmless sense -- it seems egregiously vulgar to me, but that's because in my formative years, it was.
There are so many swear words in England it's unreal. However very few of them are beyond the pale, and really context has a huge role to play. Words that could be used in abusive or derogatory terms can just as easily be used as jocular greetings to friends. 'Bugger' is certainly one of those. It stems from 'buggery' and can certainly be used with ill will but usually it isn't.
Incidentally while 'bugger' isn't generally associated with gay men any more, many many slang words are and it can get very confusing to those not in on the current terms. I travelled around the States in 2000 and one of the big hits on the radio that summer was Matchbox 20's 'Bent', the one with the chorus that runs 'Can't you help me, I'm bent.' Well in the States, that means drunk. To an Englishman that means homosexual.
You can go on a 'bender' which means to get drunk, but once you're there you're 'ratarsed' or 'soused' or 'fresh' or some such. Never 'bent', which is probably why nobody's heard of Matchbox 20 in England. And of course there's 'pissed', which has nothing to do with being upset. In England if you're drunk you're 'pissed', but if you're upset, you're 'pissed off'. Big difference.
I should add that British TV is less strict than American TV, certainly since the decline in power of Mary Whitehouse, but it's still pretty strict. However there's a watershed of 9.00pm, and things are loosened up considerably after that.
There's also a big difference between what's shown on the main two terrestrial channels (BBC1 and ITV) which are very popular and commercial and the others (BBC2, Channel 4 and Channel 5) which show a lot more risque material, including things like art films. Those channels are where I first saw films like Ghosts... of the Civil Dead or The Cook, the Thief, His Wife and Her Lover.
Incidentally while 'bugger' isn't generally associated with gay men any more, many many slang words are and it can get very confusing to those not in on the current terms. I travelled around the States in 2000 and one of the big hits on the radio that summer was Matchbox 20's 'Bent', the one with the chorus that runs 'Can't you help me, I'm bent.' Well in the States, that means drunk. To an Englishman that means homosexual.
You can go on a 'bender' which means to get drunk, but once you're there you're 'ratarsed' or 'soused' or 'fresh' or some such. Never 'bent', which is probably why nobody's heard of Matchbox 20 in England. And of course there's 'pissed', which has nothing to do with being upset. In England if you're drunk you're 'pissed', but if you're upset, you're 'pissed off'. Big difference.
I should add that British TV is less strict than American TV, certainly since the decline in power of Mary Whitehouse, but it's still pretty strict. However there's a watershed of 9.00pm, and things are loosened up considerably after that.
There's also a big difference between what's shown on the main two terrestrial channels (BBC1 and ITV) which are very popular and commercial and the others (BBC2, Channel 4 and Channel 5) which show a lot more risque material, including things like art films. Those channels are where I first saw films like Ghosts... of the Civil Dead or The Cook, the Thief, His Wife and Her Lover.
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jdb1
Dawtrina, my friend - now maybe you should explain to our readers who Mary Whitehouse is (or was - is she deceased?). Remember how geocentric we all are here in the US.
Yesterday, I was looking at a news website to get details of the horrendous assassination of Benazir Bhutto. A large photo of that unfortunate stateswoman was on my screen. I asked the young man who sits next to me, a part-timer who is attending college, if he had read about it. He said "Yes, I saw something about it on the AOL website. Who is she?" And such is the extent of knowledge of the outside world for today's generation. (My own daughter was the one who called me earlier that day to tell me about this event. Thank goodness at least one young person in America has a world view.)
Yesterday, I was looking at a news website to get details of the horrendous assassination of Benazir Bhutto. A large photo of that unfortunate stateswoman was on my screen. I asked the young man who sits next to me, a part-timer who is attending college, if he had read about it. He said "Yes, I saw something about it on the AOL website. Who is she?" And such is the extent of knowledge of the outside world for today's generation. (My own daughter was the one who called me earlier that day to tell me about this event. Thank goodness at least one young person in America has a world view.)
Brit slang
Hi, Anne
Yes a quid is a pound. A guinea is (was? ) a pound and a shilling. A 'dime' is slang for sixpence. A 'bob is a shilling. I hope i'm remembering this correctly, it's been a long time..
When we first landed, I had it all figured out. No problem for me. HAH! I bought something, maybe tea or something and the woman said, 'Tupence apenee' and I said. 'Whaaaaat? I learned, later, she was saying, 'Two pence and a half penny' in her own way. Threpence was three pence.
They have the decimal system, now. I got used to the old way: 12 pence to the shilling and 20 shillings to the pound. .... mel
Yes a quid is a pound. A guinea is (was? ) a pound and a shilling. A 'dime' is slang for sixpence. A 'bob is a shilling. I hope i'm remembering this correctly, it's been a long time..
When we first landed, I had it all figured out. No problem for me. HAH! I bought something, maybe tea or something and the woman said, 'Tupence apenee' and I said. 'Whaaaaat? I learned, later, she was saying, 'Two pence and a half penny' in her own way. Threpence was three pence.
They have the decimal system, now. I got used to the old way: 12 pence to the shilling and 20 shillings to the pound. .... mel
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sandykaypax
- Posts: 490
- Joined: April 14th, 2007, 3:15 pm
- Location: Beautiful Ohio
Hi Tracey,traceyk wrote:sandy--
Really? Because most of my husbands family is from there and I went to school (at OU in the 80's) with a lot of people from the Cleveland area and most of them say/said soda. Oh well, maybe there are differences within Cleveland.
Very interesting! I must say, I've lived in Cleveland my entire life and I never hear people call it "soda." Seriously. Could it be that the OU friends were saying "soda" because that's what other people said?
Also, I'm from the east side of Cleveland. Are your husband's people from the west or south side? Although, honestly, I have friends and family from all over the Cleveland area and we all say pop.
Perhaps there is some secret pocket of soda drinkers in Cleveland! LOL!
Funny story--when I was in high school, I had a friend who had moved to Cleveland from Rhode Island, where they use the term soda. When he first heard people talking about "pop" he thought that they were talking about a person. He had no clue what they meant. LOL!
I have a good friend from Virginia, and everyone down there calls a carbonated beverage a "Coke", no matter what flavor or brand that it is. It could be orange pop or Mountain Dew or whatever. Funny.
Sandy K
Sorry Judith:
I can't keep all those small countries and who their leaders are straight in my head. I had no idea who Benazir Bhutto was when I saw the headline on my home page and I passed right over it. Maybe you can remember who's who in some way, but they seem to change on a weekly basis either from being assassinated, voted out of office, or simply disappearing. Since the story today is that she died from banging her head, rather than being shot, I still don't know for sure where she is from although she was quoted as saying something about Pakistan, and I assume she is a stateswoman from there.
Also, yes, who is Mary Whitehouse?
Anne
I can't keep all those small countries and who their leaders are straight in my head. I had no idea who Benazir Bhutto was when I saw the headline on my home page and I passed right over it. Maybe you can remember who's who in some way, but they seem to change on a weekly basis either from being assassinated, voted out of office, or simply disappearing. Since the story today is that she died from banging her head, rather than being shot, I still don't know for sure where she is from although she was quoted as saying something about Pakistan, and I assume she is a stateswoman from there.
Also, yes, who is Mary Whitehouse?
Anne
Anne
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sandykaypax
- Posts: 490
- Joined: April 14th, 2007, 3:15 pm
- Location: Beautiful Ohio
Sandy--sandykaypax wrote:Hi Tracey,traceyk wrote:sandy--
Really? Because most of my husbands family is from there and I went to school (at OU in the 80's) with a lot of people from the Cleveland area and most of them say/said soda. Oh well, maybe there are differences within Cleveland.
Very interesting! I must say, I've lived in Cleveland my entire life and I never hear people call it "soda." Seriously. Could it be that the OU friends were saying "soda" because that's what other people said?
Also, I'm from the east side of Cleveland. Are your husband's people from the west or south side? Although, honestly, I have friends and family from all over the Cleveland area and we all say pop.
Perhaps there is some secret pocket of soda drinkers in Cleveland! LOL!
Funny story--when I was in high school, I had a friend who had moved to Cleveland from Rhode Island, where they use the term soda. When he first heard people talking about "pop" he thought that they were talking about a person. He had no clue what they meant. LOL!
I have a good friend from Virginia, and everyone down there calls a carbonated beverage a "Coke", no matter what flavor or brand that it is. It could be orange pop or Mountain Dew or whatever. Funny.
Sandy K
Maybe you're right about the OU crowd--there were a lot of students from the East Coast there at that time too. Anyway, I got in the habit of saying it from there and my husband's family and I get the oddest looks sometimes. Here in SW A-hia (or NW KY) its pop all the way.
"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars. "~~Wilde
And thanks Dawtrina and jbl for the clarification. It's funny--Americans and British supposedly both speak the same language, but sometimes it's hard to tell. I remember reading the Harry Potter books to my kids and explaining terms like biscuits, crisps and trainers to them. Glad bugger didn't come up, though bloody did. LOL
"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars. "~~Wilde
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movieman1957
- Administrator
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