SSO Summer School in Session: John Ford and Westerns

[movieman1957]

I think the real strength of this film is the characters. There is not much going on (in a western sense) until we are almost an hour into the movie. The lesser characters of Peacock (Donald Meek) and Gatewood provide little except fot the others to play from. No one can remember Peacock's name and he does little more than give Boone an ample supply of whiskey on the trip. Gatewood is pure and simple a blowhard. Doing everything he can to demand everyone aid what amounts to his getaway.

The real interest is the bookend effect of Ringo/Dallas and Hatfield/Mrs. Mallory. They each in their own way fulfill the same roles in the relationship but it is carried out quite differently. The men are chivalrous but only to their own lady. (Though Wayne clearly gets along with everyone.) Hatfield/ Mallory is cordial and refined but also smug. She doesn't want to be there and makes no bones about letting others know it. Hatfield essentially is her guard dog (self imposed) and only wants to do what is best for her regardless of how it affects others. Ringo is mindful of Dallas being a lady and takes appropriate action to remind others whether their lack of manners is on purpose or not. He is not so self centered with only Dallas as Hatfield is with Mallory.

George Bancroft is fairly normal. Andy Devine's "Buck" grows up to be Linc Appleyard. Thomas Mitchell, I think, despite his drunkenness holds the middle ground. Though he is weak he knows how to be responsible and comes to it when he should.

Monument Valley is indeed a star. Ford makes it apparent from the titles. Long shots dwarf the wagon and people. It's not too obvious but it's like finding a new toy and making the most of it.

John Wayne shows that all those years making those lousy "B" movies paid off. His character is not much different than those but Ford has certainly polished Wayne's performances. Trevor is wonderful and it makes you wonder why those sorry women would throw her out except that, despite her job, she is clearly the most attractive and fun woman in town.

In the end anyone can find happiness. Some are never as good or bad as they seem.

Original disaster film? I'm not sure. Different people on here for different reasons all going for different reasons. Mostly determined to get to Lordsburg but the argument goes to how soon and under what conditions.

My first thought about Hatfield was is he being her protector or is he looking to win her affections. My initial thought was the latter but I think as the trip went on he did become more of her protector. He became less pompous, I thought, after the baby showed up and maybe his death scene humanized him in a way that might not have manifested itself in another scene. Even his last act was to be chivalrous to Mrs. Mallory by "saving" her from the Indians but also ignoring Dallas, if you will, by only having the one bullet.

He was, to me, the most complex character.

[knitwit45]

Wow, Chris, what a review!. I think Hatfield was always looking to be Mallory's protector. I don't think it entered his mind to be otherwise. She represented everything he had once had, and had lost, whether by luck or by choice. I don't think he even "saw" Dallas, other than to shield Mallory from her.
Bancroft's sheriff was interesting, in that he had a job to do, but never lost sight of the injustice of the law he was sworn to uphold.
Thomas Mitchell's character, as well as providing humor, also was the "we all have it in is to rise to the occasion, no matter how bad our circumstances" device.

[charliechaplinfan]

Stagecoach is one western I really do like. It was the one film that persuaded me to give John Wayne another go. It's been a while since I watched it. Monumental Valley is stunning but to me the power was in the charecterisations. I was gripped.

[mrsl]

Before getting to Stagecoach, I have one more thing to say to Judith regarding The Quiet Man. The first time I saw it, I loved it except for its' (possesive 's' ChiO yuk, yuk), climactic walk from town. That kept me from re-watching for several years, and when I finally did watch again, I averted my eyes for the 'walk'. I still don't like it, and I don't in McClintock either! I don't think either scene is funny, or entertaining. Perhaps the possibility exists that you expect the same kind of behavior in other films. The teaming of Wayne and O'Hara is a brilliant one. She has a way of endearing herself to all of her leading men (she's perfect with Ty Power in The Long Grey Line), and if I didn't know they were both with other people, I would swear Duke and Maureen had a thing going for years, but I truly doubt that. In any case, Judith, Waynes' character in most of his other movies is like the one he shows us during the rain storm when they have escaped from Barry Fitzgerald in Quiet Man.

Can't say much about the characters in Stagecoach after Chris' depiction, he hit all of them right on the head. Although the desert is a character also, I see every area as another character. The station stop, so dreary and lacking in any facilities for ladies, no place to wash up or rest. Then when they got to that horrible town. Wayne couldn't imagine leaving this pretty lady (as he saw her) in such a wretched place. Worst of all was the interior of the stagecoach itself, you almost wanted to squirm on your own seat when you imagined the heat and dust in those cramped quarters. Seeing the outer camera shots was a relief bringing fresh air and room to breathe.

I love a desert landscape. That is one of my favorite things about Western movies. I would choose a desert landscape over a lake, or green valley, or trees any day. The amazing colors of the desert draw me and always have, that is one reason I wish Ford had used color more.

Anne

[charliechaplinfan]

I think part of the reason I like The Quiet Man so much is that my grandma was from Ireland and she adored Ireland, the lush green pastures. When I was little she would tell me all about her home country, she'd visit every year whilst she was able, this perfect place. As a child I never questioned why they left, the poverty, the hardship of life.

Last year we visited and spent time in the area my grandma's parents grew up, it's on the west coast. A more bleak and weather beaten place I have neve seen, there was an old Victorian village, that just about swept any romantic thoughts I'd had about my ancestors upbringing straight out of my head. Although money had been put into the place by the tourist board it still was a forbidding place.

The Quiet Man is the place I believed in when I was a child.

[stuart.uk]

One thing I've thought about regarding Stagecoach. Can you imagine how guilt ridden Hatfield would be if he'd killed Lucy, then the army showed up!

William Surrey Hart told Ford that Indians in reality would have shot the horses, then killed everyone on the stage. I try and get around that arguement by thinking they wanted the stock alive.

I read a biopic about Duke where it showed a list of the characters in social status before the trip. The Bottom three where Doc Boone, Ringo and bringing up the rear Dallas. However, by the end of the trip the bottom three ended up topping the list

I take the view that Duke knew Dallas was a dance hall girl, but was prepared to overlook it. Some take the view Wayne was an innocent that didn't know any better, but I disagree.

I think too Tim Holt impressed as the young army Officer, who also seemed to bond with Lucy. I wonder if Holt was wasted in the B westerns and more could have been made of him in features

[Lzcutter]

Great responses everybody! (Though I was hoping more folks would chime in- ah well the dog days of summer.)

I always thought that Hatfield was from that fine family and the silver cup was all he had to remind him of those days before the Civil War destroyed it all.

We have to remember that the burnt of the War was fought on Southern soil. Being an agricultural society (vs. a manufacturing one like the North), the destruction was mainly to homes and plantations.

I always felt that Hatfield (like many of Ford's supporting characters such as Trooper Smith in *Yellow Ribbon*) had fought for the South but had lost everything in doing so: his family, his home, his standing in society.

After the war, he returned home to find a burned out hull of a plantation, no crops, no slaves and no reason to stay on the land. Like many other men he migrated West looking for a way to re-invent himself.

The silver cup reminds of where he came from and all that he has lost but still holds dear.

His upbringing is evident in the way he treats Mrs. Mallory.

Coming up next "My Darling Clementine"