Summer Under the Stars: August 2012 Schedule

[JackFavell]

I should have known that's what you meant!

[CineMaven]

Maven, as much as I love your idea, I do not believe it could ever have happened. Only in heaven...

I know, Brother Rat. Luckily I have an imagination to dwell in when reality gets to be a bore, bore, bore ( as Kate might say. ) I’ve also read, probably apocryphally, that Crawford made a pass at Davis too, that wasn’t appreciated. Well...Bette was a cute little thing back in the 30’s.

You might enjoy William J. Mann's well-researched biography of Hepburn...

Glad to see something well-researched, and balanced on her. If I ever pick up a book again...I’ll have to remember to take your suggestion. My attention span these days wallows inside a thimble.

After watching Katharine Hepburn in Song of Love (1947-Clarence Brown) this morning, I decided that: 1.) Kate never radiated anything maternal, despite playing the mother of...2.) The last time my scalp hurt this much from watching a movie was when I checked out Patty McCormack's pigtails in The Bad Seed. Hepburn's Clara Schumann wore her hair scraped back and up into a tight chignon that had to have given her a headache. It certainly gave me one...

OMG. Hilarious. No I can’t sing the song of love myself. I’ve felt nothing for that movie or "DESK SET" or any of those middling 50’s comedies of Cary Grant with Loren or Caron. Nothing worse than not laughing, chuckling, or cracking a smile at a comedy and I love Cary. But those leave me cold. ( Why do I believe Cary as a dad, grifter or secret agent, though? ) I agree with you Madame Finnie, when you say Kate does not radiate maternity. Luckily I don’t need her for that. There are others that do the radiation where I can go to for my CineMommy fix. For Kate, I love her strength and independence in a time where that piece of life’s pie might have been sorely lacking in many women with few options. It’s kind of still a little bit hard for me to imagine that an unmarried woman was seen as an odd thing...her "real life" on hold until she got married. Society’s pressures are so enormous.

I read Mann's book on Katharine Hepburn, it made me view her differently but no less fondly...Kate is one of my favourite actresses and icons but I agree with all of you, there are roles she falls short in and they are usually the roles of mother and/or romantic lover, the exception to me is The Lion in Winter and Summertime, I think that's because the children are men. The roles she did do well are amongst my favourite...I'm glad TCM gave her a day, there's a heck of a body of work out there for her, I hope they chose well.

Hey there Georgy Girl!!! Kate’s “SUMMERTIME” performance is amazing. ( I’d relish a separate conversation about ‘tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved before; I'm conflicted about that. ) I never found Kate sexy until that movie. I mean, I find her strength and all that sexy and I've always liked her, but in “Summertime” I found her to be sexy in that traditional sexual way of being sexy. I’m so glad to see you are a fan of Hepburn’s. She probably knew herself well enough to know she wouldn’t be convincing as a Mum. But I would love to know the conversation she had about doing “DRAGON SEED.” THAT one is beyond me .

[CineMaven]

I LOVE the idea of the BIG THREE having a girls night out! I am with you all the way, Maven, imagining what might have been said and the dynamics changing within the group at every moment.

Im-a-ni-ma-ma-ma-gi-naaaaay-tion! Okay, let’s write a screenplay of this Diva Summit meeting. Who’ll take on Kate? Who’ll take Stanwyck? And who’ll write Bette? ( But ev'ryone must promise NOT to make a pass at her! )

The older I get the more interesting Kate gets. Here is a woman who, by her own report had no fear, and yet..... and yet.... there is something in Kate that always makes me wonder about that...Something does not jibe for me with this image she very carefully projected of herself, of not having a weakness, or a docile feminine side...

I hear ya. I’m almost certain she had fears and/or doubts...she was human. I’m sure she had a feminine side too. We’ve seen bits of it in “Summertime” or cuddling up to Tracy, being even a bit subservient well, perhaps I should say, deferring to him. She was probably strong at the studio and with Louis B. or her directors, and then sat at Tracy’s feet, bringing him whiskey-laced coffee at home. You’ve seen male bosses. They’re tigers in the boardroom and kitty kats in the at home.

I see her so differently now than I did when I was young. When I was young, Hepburn was my ideal role model. I wanted to be an actress...Kate was the definition of an ACTRESS. Fearless, wearing pants, stalking her roles like a big game hunter and always having the last laugh, winning even in losing...She was bold and strong and didn't care what people thought, so the story goes. I wanted to be her so badly, probably because I did care and did not fell I had power over my own life.

You are not alone in that at all, Jaxxx. We gravitate to role models that have the “stuff” we ( think ) we lack. Kate seemed so sure of herself, and seems like the type to try and figure out WHY a thing didn’t work without busting out crying ( like I would...WAH! )

But now, when I watch her, I can't help but see a very different Kate. I think of her romances with Howard Hughes, John Ford and Spencer Tracy. These relationships are not those of a strong willed, self assured woman. Why did she continually fall for married men, or gifted men with deep seated problems?

I like when that happens. I like when I see a thing when I was a kid and then, see it now, as an adult. “The Thing” seems to change, when it’s really a measure of my own growth. That’s very astute of you to see that Kate, this strong, kickass woman...picks the types of men she picked. That says so much about her, doesn’t it. Our choices sure say a lot about us. ( Ohhhhhhhhhhkay...so movies are the only way I can tell if I'm growing up! )

...I'm sorry but no one is that good an actress that they can portray an emotion that they've never had...I see a hurt, small person inside that huge Hepburn image. A woman who is afraid.

I’m with you on that score. Perhaps the ACTING that Kate did was to hide that small person inside her; cover it up with the bravado of the New Kind Of Woman.

So these performances, my favorites actually, are really a window for me, into the soft side of Hepburn that I think has existed all this time and that was hidden most certainly from the public, possibly from friends and acquaintances too. A side that was weak and desperate to be noticed, to be loved...My goodness, all her great roles have this dichotomy, a scared woman in a mask worn for the public. Stage Door, Sylvia Scarlett, The Philadelphia Story, Pat and Mike, Long Day's Journey Into Night..... Isn't this a glimpse into the real Hepburn?

Mommma! Your whole paragraph, Wendy...whew! I think you’ve hit on the secret to watching Hepburn...or a pretty damned good theory at least. Lerve it.

And this is what I find fascinating in Hepburn, arguably her best roles are as women who have recreated themselves, put on a front, and are dealing with one shot at a different life of their choosing. Will they make the mistake and remain as they are? I get a strong feeling that Kate identifies with these women the most. Why?

Well why do you actresses want to become actresses? ( This goes for directors also... ) Isn’t Acting a safe place to work out some issues? It's sure way cheaper than lying on the couch paying a psychiatrist $100 bucks an hour. On a movie set or stage, you can work out your issues, and get paid to boot. Win-Win!!

kingrat, thanks very much. I've been thinking about Hepburn's buried vulnerability for a long time but the thought never really crystallized until very recently. It's what I like best about her, and not too many people ever mention it.

Okay. It’s settled. You take on the Kate persona for our blockbuster script. ( We're in the monaaaay... )

I watched her performance this morning in Mary of Scotland, and found it unutterably sad. The movie does not work, but has some things going for it...Mary is really not much different from you or I, just a woman, but also just a pawn to bring Scotland to it's knees. She is pushed this way or that, by men and a woman who would have her throne for themselves, and who think her stupid. Except she's not, she's simply an open book that anyone can read, even her enemies. This woman is no queen. Certainly when you compare her to Eleanor of Aquitaine....

You’re making me want to check out the movie Wendy. I’ve never really truly significantly been able to sit through it. But you’ve given me the hook to watching her in it. ( Uhmmm...did Pappy have a fling with Kate? I’m shocked and chagrined. And if so, does April know about this?!!!! )

I actually think Bette and Joan still had IT throughout most of their later careers, but I am probably the only one.

No ma’am...I do not think you are a party of one.

It takes some strength and chutzpah, internal fortitude and, frankly, some balls to be a Queen; whether it’s a queen in movies, or in music or art or business. Bette Davis said, “you have to dare to be hated.” Look, I ain’t talkin’ about Snooki or Paris or any form of Kardashian. These are girls with very little talent. One can be famous overnight for walking into a mall fountain while Tweeting. ( Hmm...that gives me an idea on how to be famous, myself. ) Much of fame and talent today is empty and judged by how many hits you get or if Tommy Lee can videotape you in a compromising position. What it takes to be a Queen is not probably something your Mom and Dad can teach you per se. Perhaps they can give you pieces of it...a foundation, a good healthy respect of Self, self-reliance. But you probably make your own way...sort of raise your self through trial and error and a certain amount of fearlessness. Ha...or a certain amount OF fear.

Many look at Hepburn through their own lens. I doubt men, in general, pay attention to her; boys have so many heroes of their own already and she probably wasn’t sexy enough for them to really pay attention to in that visceral way they do.

But I think this triumvirate of divas and much of their filmography is worth a looksee for any little girl today.

( Hepburn: May 12th, 1907 ) ( Stanwyck: July 16th, 1907 ) ( Davis: April 5th, 1908 )

To misquote Gutman in “The Maltese Falcon”: “I’m a fan who likes talking to a fan who likes to talk...about Katharine Hepburn.” Thanxx guys.

Just colour me smarmy and callow.

[JackFavell]

Wow!Thank you! What a great couple of posts Maven!

“I’m a fan who likes talking to a fan who likes to talk..." I may have to steal this for my signature line, I like it THAT much!

Im-a-ni-ma-ma-ma-gi-naaaaay-tion! Okay, let’s write a screenplay of this Diva Summit meeting. Who’ll take on Kate? Who’ll take Stanwyck? And who’ll write Bette? ( But ev'ryone must promise NOT to make a pass at her! )

That's a formidable task, it's one thing to write a play about Marilyn and Albert Einstein, but THESE THREE? Ay yi yi! Each so distinctive and EVERYBODY KNOWS THEM SO WELL.

I'm game.

I hear ya. I’m almost certain she had fears and/or doubts...she was human. I’m sure she had a feminine side too. We’ve seen bits of it in “Summertime” or cuddling up to Tracy, being even a bit subservient well, perhaps I should say, deferring to him. She was probably strong at the studio and with Louis B. or her directors, and then sat at Tracy’s feet, bringing him whiskey-laced coffee at home. You’ve seen male bosses. They’re tigers in the boardroom and kitty kats in the at home.

Yes, that deferential Kate, she's the one who kept intriguing me. So different from what you would think she'd be like.

You are not alone in that at all, Jaxxx. We gravitate to role models that have the “stuff” we ( think ) we lack. Kate seemed so sure of herself, and seems like the type to try and figure out WHY a thing didn’t work without busting out crying ( like I would...WAH! )

You and me both. Every time I used to do a play, during the second week of rehearsals I'd be wondering what the heck made me think I could actually act.

I like when that happens. I like when I see a thing when I was a kid and then, see it now, as an adult. “The Thing” seems to change, when it’s really a measure of my own growth. That’s very astute of you to see that Kate, this strong, kickass woman...picks the types of men she picked. That says so much about her, doesn’t it. Our choices sure say a lot about us. ( Ohhhhhhhhhhkay...so movies are the only way I can tell if I'm growing up! )

I like that too. I feel I have come all the way around to the opposite view of her, based on my experiences growing up and observing human nature.

Kingrat's "avoiding the norm" idea sounds modern, but plausible to me. Kate's modernity is what draws fans to her even now. It's that subservient demeanor to Spence that really throws me. A woman who picks strong silent powerful men is not always weak, but I also think that there is a hierarchy that forces a choice between the two in the relationship, and I don't see Spence as the type to give in. It just doesn't fit for me somehow, when I put all the things I see in Hepburn together, that Kate would be the only powerhouse in that relationship or that she would WANT a man she could overpower. Some women do, but I don't see it in Kate. I think she wanted equality in a relationship but not necessarily the same job as her man. Why pick staunch CATHOLIC artists who, although open minded, probably still saw women in a certain way? I think she would fight to prove a woman could do anything, and would want a man who would really respect her, but a man who could best her once in a while. That seems on target to me - someone tough enough to proof her femininity. Because that femininity you, Maven, speak of is certainly there, most obviously with Tracy, but also with Rosanno Brazzi, Jimmy Stewart or Cary Grant.

Both Ford and Tracy could be irascible in real life, and needed strong women around them just to keep up, but the women in their lives also seemed to know when to pull back and let them reign. It has nothing to do with how strong the man or woman is. It's a question of who needs to win the most. Tracy seems more conservative than Kate, and maybe more fragile. He needed to be valued more. In the movies with Spence, she shows such a willingness, not to be subservient, but to "allow" him gracefully to win.

I’m with you on that score. Perhaps the ACTING that Kate did was to hide that small person inside her; cover it up with the bravado of the New Kind Of Woman.

Human nature is to either spill all those weaknesses we have out at once (like I have a tendency to do) or to bury them like an alpha dog so that no one can see them, never mention them so they disappear. Kate is interesting, because in her interviews and public persona, she completely hides those weaknesses, but in her movies she explores them.

Well why do you actresses want to become actresses? ( This goes for directors also... ) Isn’t Acting a safe place to work out some issues? It's sure way cheaper than lying on the couch paying a psychiatrist $100 bucks an hour. On a movie set or stage, you can work out your issues, and get paid to boot. Win-Win!!

This is another thing about Kate I can't quite reconcile. Most actors and actresses are driven by something in childhood, have something deep seated to work out by acting. They want to escape themselves or they want to escape a dreary, normal life. Why would Kate be an actress if she was so damned strong? The answer is, she wasn't. She was vulnerable and had issues in her childhood that she was probably supposed to turn an blind eye to, have the appearance of getting over but never really did. Frankly, this was another thing that always bothered me about her... that episode in her youth with her brother must have been a life shattering event. It's never apparent in her actions that it was such. More power to her that she was able to function on such a high level, but it has to have affected her deeply, deeply.

Okay. It’s settled. You take on the Kate persona for our blockbuster script. ( We're in the monaaaay... )

Whoa! wait a minute....

You’re making me want to check out the movie Wendy. I’ve never really truly significantly been able to sit through it. But you’ve given me the hook to watching her in it. ( Uhmmm...did Pappy have a fling with Kate? I’m shocked and chagrined. And if so, does April know about this?!!!! )

Oh don't get me wrong, it was a tough watch. I had a hard time paying attention. The movie LOOKS fabulous though. And Kate is filmed beautifully... talk about feminine!

And yes, they had what I would term as a love affair, I wouldn't call it a 'fling' since it seems to have been very serious. From what I've read, it was extremely meaningful to both of them.

and April knows.

I tend to think that Hepburn's flirtations with Hughes were not as serious on her part, but I can't remember any exact info from books I've read to back that up.

I actually think Bette and Joan still had IT throughout most of their later careers, but I am probably the only one.

No ma’am...I do not think you are a party of one.

Whew. Didn't want to be out there on the mountaintop all alone.

It takes some strength and chutzpah, internal fortitude and, frankly, some balls to be a Queen; whether it’s a queen in movies, or in music or art or business. Bette Davis said, “you have to dare to be hated.” Look, I ain’t talkin’ about Snooki or Paris or any form of Kardashian. These are girls with very little talent. One can be famous overnight for walking into a mall fountain while Tweeting. ( Hmm...that gives me an idea on how to be famous, myself. ) Much of fame and talent today is empty and judged by how many hits you get or if Tommy Lee can videotape you in a compromising position. What it takes to be a Queen is not probably something your Mom and Dad can teach you per se. Perhaps they can give you pieces of it...a foundation, a good healthy respect of Self, self-reliance. But you probably make your own way...sort of raise your self through trial and error and a certain amount of fearlessness. Ha...or a certain amount OF fear.

Many look at Hepburn through their own lens. I doubt men, in general, pay attention to her; boys have so many heroes of their own already and she probably wasn’t sexy enough for them to really pay attention to in that visceral way they do.

I definitely look at Hepburn through my own lens here. Someone reading could very easily think I'm on crack for talking about her like this. But it's how I see her and that's all I am saying.

But I think this triumvirate of divas and much of their filmography is worth a looksee for any little girl today.( Hepburn: May 12th, 1907 ) ( Stanwyck: July 16th, 1907 ) ( Davis: April 5th, 1908 )

ABSOLUTELY.
I can't believe Bette is the baby here!

Thanks for the lively discussion, Lively Gal. Or should I call you Kasper?

[CineMaven]

Welll...as long as you don't call me callow and smarmy. I'll see you on the mountaintop. And bring the crack with you. And some binoculars. And an oxygen mask...and Raisinets and...

Thanxxx for sharing your thoughts.

A fan who likes to be talked to by a fan who likes to talk to a fan who likes to talk. Oh dear.

[mongoII]

Thus far I am enjoying the day with Kay Francis under the stars. She certainly had appeal and a lovely smile (and oh those eyes). She was wonderful in "One Way Passage" this morning.
Contrary to her speech impediment I enjoy the way she talks (perhaps instead of saying "alright" she should have said "okay". Bless her.

[moira finnie]

A few rare photos and in-depth analysis of Kay Francis career can be seen here with her biographer, Scott O'Brien.

An extended discussion of Kay Francis, her life and her films, took place over a week-long period between Scott & our members on our site here:
http://silverscreenoasis.com/oasis3/vie ... =36&t=2320

[Sue Sue Applegate]

I'll be there!

[moira finnie]

If anyone sees both The House on 56th Street (1933) on TCM today at 9:30pm ET and The Secret of Madame Blanche (1933) on TCM on Fri. at 9:30am ET, could you please let me know the difference between these two movies...aside from the 56 costume changes.

*SPOILER ALERT* Do NOT, Please Do NOT Read Below This Line If you Just Fell Off a Christmas Tree or You Are a Neophyte Classic Film Fan *SPOILER ALERT*

Come to think of it, these two movies are also essentially the same movie as Frisco Jenny (1932), which is another remake of Madame X, isn't it??

I'm confused...but at least the early '30s was a good period for angst-ridden female transgressors and self-sacrificing moms on screen. The pre-code period was really "great for free-spirited women," isn't that the gist of the current critical assessment? Hmmmm....

Crumpled, ink-stained napkin found in a moldy file in the Margaret Herrick Library Archives at AMPAS in a folder marked
"Basic Formula for Women's Flicks - Version #1":

Girl grows up in strait-laced/impoverished/morally suspect/harsh environment
+
Girl Must Make Her Way in World She Never Made
+
Girl meets Bad Boy
+
Girl Falls for Bad Boy
+
Bad Boy Gets Girl "in trouble"
+
Girl Takes Rap for Bad Boy To Protect Baby
+
Girl Becomes Crusty Older Floozie
+
Years Go By = Bittersweet Mother & Child Reunion (though Junior is still clueless)

[psst...I mock because I love. I really love these cockamamie movies and particularly like the way that Kay Francis, Irene Dunne and Ruth Chatterton make these movies into silk purses with their talent and style]

[mongoII]

Moira, I still feel the same way I did four years ago when I read your piece about Kay Francis:

Posted By Joe aka Mongo : September 4, 2008 10:43 am

Moira, all I can is WOW! If I didn’t know much about Kay Francis, I certainly do now. It is a terrific essay on one of Hollywood’s brightest stars.
You can be sure I will be looking in on Kay this month on TCM.

[moira finnie]

Oh, Joe, Scott made it easy and Kay made it fun, even if she did say her "R"s like "W"s!!

[JackFavell]

I love movies like Madame X, Frisco Jenny and Stella Dallas. And Kay Francis in Confession fits the bill too I think?

Loved Kay Francis day! She is the star who has made the most impression on me over the last few years since her SOTM day. She's great!