George Raft

[Western Guy]

Thanks Alison. Definitely have seen it; in fact, it's included in the blooper reel that's a bonus feature in one of the "Warner Greatest Gangster Movies" DVD sets. It's a great scene and even George Bancroft joins in the fun. Must have been other bloopers from the movie; would love to locate 'em. Wonder if any exist for George's other four Warner films. The fistfight bewtween him and Eddie G. would really be something to see.

[charliechaplinfan]

I really enjoyed that out take, I'd love to know if there are others. Watching the out takes on youtube there are an awful lot of Pat O'Brien, Kay Francis and Humphrey Bogart ones out there. Only that one with George in as far as I can see.

I posted two posts close together about George, there was a question I think you might have missed regarding George and his women. I've heard of this 'legend' about his love life before you started this thread and I know we had a bit of fun discussing it because I didn't quite know what the legend was. But I was puzzled as to why he had such a legend, I know from reading your book that he was prolific but he wasn't a pest, he was a gentleman, nobody has a bad word to say about him, he didn't go for really young ladies as far as I've read, there doesn't seem to be a single shred of evidence of anything bad or kinky. Does he deserve to have this kind of 'nudge nudge wink wink' type of attitude from more unscrupulous 'writers' and posters on forums? Was he a chaser of women or was he the chased who liked to be caught? And when in a serious relationship do you think he was the faithful type? I just don't understand what people would get so hung up on this legend which seems to me to be no more than stamina and quantity(I managed to get onto the imdb and read a few of the posts and someone kept hammering on about this legend and also his endowment I think they called it and I'm still none the wiser)

[feaito]

If I may chime in, just reading what Alison wrote I remember reading that Raft was supposed to be nicknamed "The Black Snake". Is this true Stone?

[Western Guy]

Hi Fernando. Yes, from what I understand The Black Snake was a Raft nickname given him, in awe, by call girls. He was known as the hooker's delight and, to his amusement, he found that he was charged more by "working girls" than any other celebrity customer. These gals must have known of Raft's generous nature and capitalized on it.

Alison, again from what I've researched George was always a gentleman with his dates, and even treated hookers with respect. One girl interviewed in the Yablonsky book said that he was not into kinky or twisted stuff (as were other Hollywood celebs she does not mention). George also claimed that he never thought of himself as a sexy guy and would only follow through with a woman if she made most of the advance. He was always afraid of rejection. After the Betty Grable affair fizzled out he turned mainly to the companionship of call girls as he knew he would not be rejected and he didn't have to fear emotional attachment that would lead to further heartbreak. Took him a long time to get over his breakup with Betty. I believe in his three serious romances, George was faithful. Or as faithful as a leading Hollywood star and woman-magnet could be. Those are details I obviously can't verify. Just going on what information I was able to uncover, and he seemed pretty much a one-woman man, especially with Virgina Pine and with Betty -- at least until those relationships started to erode.

[feaito]

How interesting Stone, thanks for taking the time to answer my question.

I have also read that Carole Lombard had a high regard for Raft as a man and a lover, and the she rated him very high in both accounts, perhaps even higher than ex Bill Powell and later partner and husband Clark Gable. I also have the feeling that they had a nice friendship and great chemistry, both privately and professionally; I bet Raft liked Lombard's unaffected, unassuming personality. I guess their affair took place around 1934-1935 when they made two films together.

[Western Guy]

Raft was very fond of Carole Lombard, Fernando, and apparently the two did have a bit of a romance going for a while, likely during that period you mention. He liked how she combined "earthiness" with glamor. The story goes, though, that Raft's incredible sex drive proved too much even for Miss Lombard; whether that was a factor in ending their romance or whether it was Carole's falling for Gable, I'm not sure. But Raft claimed to be happy for Carole when she and Clark began their own love affair.

[charliechaplinfan]

He's often mentioned in the same breathe as Errol Flynn when it comes to legendary lovers but that suggests they were similar but they weren't. I think George had a higher regard for women than Flynn did and perhaps a lower self esteem. Now this is economics I don't understand, if I guy is nice to you and has a good reputation and a nickname of the Black Snake why charge him more? You think the higher charges would go to the more undesirable clients. Hollywood is funny place.

Reading between the lines I thought he was quite a faithful chap, at least as faithful as a Hollywood leading man could be. Virginia cheated on him in the end, there relationship was breaking down but what man would be brave enough to date George Raft's girl. That was a brave man, as it is when he discovered it he was restrained for him.

This is the guy who said he had a face that frightened babies. I doubt it, he was far better looking that he seemed to have realised.

Carole would have known the rough and readier George, she wasn't the girl to have given him the polish that Virginia did. Still I bet it was quite a partnership whilst it lasted. From what I've read about Clark Gable at this time, he wasn't at all like George apart from the fact he came from poverty too.

[charliechaplinfan]

George or Rudolph? I've been struck by the likeness before but this is almost uncanny. I know the answer but I had to look twice. Any idea from when it dates from Stone? I'm guessing early 30s.

[feaito]

Thanks for your feedback Stone; Carole Lombard did blend perfectly glamour with earthiness.

[Western Guy]

I'd have to agree with you on that photograph, Alison. Definitely looks like an early 30s shot. A Paramount publicity glossy, I suspect, and it also looks signed.

Surprisingly, George had very low esteem and that was one of the reasons he never watched himself onscreen (and he wasn't alone in that). I never could understand that. I find George to be an exceptionally good-looking fellow.

As to call girls charging him more than other clients . . . again, I think it's because they knew George was generous and would pay more.

[charliechaplinfan]

A psychologist would probably put the temper down to low self esteem down to childhood and there is enough there to have caused self esteem problems.

I have to admit, he isn't the man I'd expected to have discovered, I knew he couldn't be the person some tabloid trash merchants like us to believe, I thought he was a good time guy with colourful pals and a much talked about sex life. He isn't at all, I hadn't expected to discover how sensitive, charming and lacking in self esteem he was and because of his reputation I expected to come across a ladykiller who worked his way through a steady stream of available girls because he could and wasn't in the market for a serious relationship. I've discovered a much nicer person than I ever expected. I have you to thank for that Stone. I think he'd have suited marriage and kids, it would have been nice if he'd have had a lasting relationship with someone which would have sustained him to old age. Hollywood seems to be a horrible place to be when you're older and it must be even worse if you're alone.

I love that picture, it made me look twice, I think George looks like Rudolph's tougher twin brother. Rudolph Valentino paid a high price for his fame, I always wonder what people who knew Rudy in the New York days must have thought of all that hullaballoo. He was quite a simple living man by all accounts, I bet George didn't envy him that fame.

[Western Guy]

One Raft biographer quoted an aged George as saying: "I'm probably the loneliest man in Hollywood."

I don't believe it. Maybe George didn't have the family life he claimed to have yearned for, but he had plenty of friends. Elsewhere it was said that in these later years George Raft was one of the best-liked people in Hollywood.

[charliechaplinfan]

He was extremely popular with the younger crowd, I can certainly imagine he wasn't alone very often.

Who else didn't like to watch themselves on screen, I didn't realise it was so common. From a ladies perspective, he was a handsome guy and even more so when he smiled, no need for low self esteem there.

[charliechaplinfan]

Accoding to someone this is young George Raft, maybe but I'm pretty sure it's not ours.

[charliechaplinfan]

A few pictures I found Stone, can you help with timings and films?



It said Coney Island but no other clues



A rather fetching shirt but why and who he's with I don't know



Sometimes Hollywood gets it wrong but it looks like it might be so bad it could almost be good



Was he handsome? Perhaps Betty Grable would be the best judge



I love kids, I love this picture.