A Propos of Nothing

[jdb1]

Here's a question:

Has anyone else noticed that all of a sudden, everyone on TV is pronouncing the word "often" as "off-ten?" When did this start? I heard it constantly from "real" people on those interminable series of reality shows that seem to be on all day and all night. Then TV actors started saying it, and now I'm hearing news readers doing it as well. I can't see where saying "off-ten" is wrong, but why did that happen? Will be all soon be saying "lis-ten" for "listen" as well?

It's an interesting phenomenon, this changing of language. How much longer until "aks" becomes the preferred pronunciation of "ask?" We can't seem to get away from "nucular" for "nuclear" any more. These two I'm not so sanguine about; they make me wince.

The fact remains: the general public remains convinced that if they hear it on TV, it must be right (unless it's something too hard to do, like charity, conservation or participating in democracy).

I just don't know what to think about all this. Well, whatever Oprah thinks is my opinion, too.

[mrsl]

I haven't noticed the off-ten but you got me with the aks - that just burns my butt, and always has. I'll never understand how grown people can still be saying it. Another pet peeve is 'like', such as "it's like, you know". aagghh.

Anne

[jdb1]

Another current mode of speech that makes me cringe: "I know," to indicate agreement.

For example, I heard this exchange:

First Teen: "I hope it doesn't rain tonight."

Second Teen: "I know."

Huh? What's that? You know she hopes it doesn't rain tonight?

Or:

Lawyer 1: "I had a sandwich for lunch. It wasn't bad."

Lawyer 2: "I know."

What????

It's perfectly natural for any language, especially one as fluid as English, to change. It's just that I simply don't see any justification for these particular changes. And I hear such exchange more and more -- off-ten.

[jdb1]

It's so true - all languages change with time, and with the influx of newcomers, American English is changing even more. And I don't mean just newcomers from other countries, but those from smaller towns and cities coming into the larger cities, especially New York (it seems like there's simply no more room). Colloquialisms and other elements from other regions are quickly seeping into urban speech, and "off-ten" is probably one of them. This particular clock cannot be turned back.

For me, this is what makes English such a beautiful and dynamic language. The changes jar me, of course, but perhaps more because I'm the product of a more rigorous and exacting educational system than is now in place.

Like, word -- I know.

[Bogie]

Ok can someone help me here? I hate whenever someone says "stricter". I don't think it's a word but it's there in the dictionary so it must be! It just doesn't sound right to my ears though.

[melwalton]

Bkln ... John... Anne...
Good topic. one that bothers me is the reverse, dropping the T sound in the middle of a word; Winner. sennence. inner ( that one changes the meaning ) innernational and international. Seems to happen even with good writers, I heard Erma Bombeck on tv a while back and she kept saying, 'Yuh know' over and over. Another thing the proper meaning of words' A while back, everyone was using the word "chauvinist' without coming close to the true meaning of the word. The misuse became so popular that it's generally accepted, now.
I know American English is a living language and will keep changing, pity that it's influenced so much by tv, Maybe we should all learn Esperanto, latin being too tough. ....mel

[jdb1]

Yes, Mel, I think this is a point we can discuss forever here - the changes in our language are happening faster than ever, because of the global reach of the media.

I can recall a time a few years ago, when all the up and coming little actors and actresses were affecting a sort of British accent. That didn't last too long, probably because it was to difficult for them to maintain.

One phrase that is beginning to get ridiculous and lose its meaning is "My heart goes out." A perfectly good expression of sympathy that is becoming a hollow phrase because of its over- and inappropriate use on TV.

I just remembered another instance, this was probably in the 80s, where every actor was using the words "joy" or "joyful" to express a liking for something. Instead of saying we liked it, we had a good time, they said "it was a joy," "it was a joyful time." Who talks like that in the real word? Bah.

Another one that has now become common speech is "to the effect of," instead of the proper "to the effect that," as in "he said something to the effect that we won't get bonuses this year." I suppose "effect of" sounds more logical than "effect that." But then, that one is a pretty normal change in language. Just about everyone now says "have your cake and eat it too" when the proper phrase is "eat your cake and have it too," in other words, use something up and still expect to have more. But I suppose to most people the first version makes more sense, so that's what they say.

Well, I've got to sign off, I've got lots to do and tonight I'm going to be in Heaven, sitting in Carnegie Hall listening to the world's greatest living classical pianist, Murray Perahia.

[klondike]

Here's what makes me chuckle: in the great old Depressions era Nero Wolfe detective novels (which I consumed by the fistful in my late 20's), that rotund master crime-solver would often chide his protege Archie Goodwin for his habits of "lazy language" and "erroneous vocabulary", which usually involved Archie's use of a statement that, for instance, a client was contacting the police, or that a suspect might motor out of the city.
"That word is a noun, Mr. Goodwin," Wolfe would scold bitterly, "not a verb; let us not assist the creeping devolution of American English!"
One wonders how the great Serbian sleuth would react to the media acceleration of the word and phrase transitions we are currently witnessing, like texting, or brokered, or guest hosting, or dial-up, or grandfathered, or free agency, or semi-professional, or spin-off, or hands-free, or minored, or ringtone, or profiling, or lowcarb, or prenups, or nickel & dimed, or CG.
"Rubbish", he'd probably mutter, counting the day's bottle-caps in the center drawer of his elegant mahogany desk, estimating if he could justify one more Belgian pilsner, before rising to walk all the way to the diningroom for his supper of quail embrochette & braised shallots.

[jdb1]

The one that really sets my teeth on edge is the morphing of the word "fun" from a noun to an adjective: Oh, how fun. AAARRRGGGHHH!

[Erebus]

I always cringe when I hear the verb "deserve" when "need" is indicated, as in "all children deserve X". Never does every example of any kind of thing "deserve" anything. One deserves on the basis of relative worth or merit, or lack of same, not due to mere existence or instantiation of a form. This fusion of meanings is a subtle instance of Orwellian drift.

[melwalton]

What bothers me ( I know, I'm finicky ) is using nouns as verbs, EX: 'Party'.
Another one, the misuse of words as 'reiterate' when iterate is meant, I suppose, most of us do it and it's, probably, inevitable but it can be very irksome......mel

[Sue Sue Applegate]

I have that funny, grabbing feeling in the pit of my stomach (educated anxiety) when I hear someone say "On tomorrow." Now, it is perfectly acceptable to say "On Tuesday" or "On Saturday," but "On tomorrow" is an unacceptable idiomatic error. It rattles me every time I hear it.

I feel it is an understandable error for someone who is just learning English, but unacceptable for someone who is a native speaker of English and has a college degree.

[CharlieT]

My peeves are the misuse of the words "except" and "accept", "effect" and "affect, and most of all, "then" and "than." Of course, I'm not the one to criticize others. I, at times, am no better than anyone else.