Ridiculous.
When will people learn that you can't reward kids into things. I told my kids it was their job to do well in school. Their mother and I would provide everything else and help when needed but they had to do their work.
The public (that is paying attention) long ago found out that throwing money at something won't fix it. Consequently, it won't work for kids. If it does work it is only until they get what they want.
Curriculum changes and, if needed, a change in teachers. Passing kids through even if they don't do the work only creates bigger problems.
Maybe Mr. Klein will see the light.
A Propos of Nothing
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movieman1957
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Judith:
Your final 2 sentence paragraph tells it all. I have been admittedly 'harping' on our youngsters for quite a while now, but I always get shushed down because "our kids are not that bad". People are having the wool pulled over their eyes. Teen, and 20 somethings lack of vocabulary is frightening. Give a teen a mathematical problem and tell them to solve it without aid of a calculator and they look at you as if you're talking Martian. Ask them the difference between they're, their, and there and few could tell you. Actually only the avid readers know. I know this is true because I have several grade levels in my own family and I see it. NY isn't alone, I know it's here in the Chicago area, and I'm pretty sure it's nationwide. I know I get on peoples nerves, but everyone wants their children to be better than they were, or are, and to admit or accept the facts that things are just not in good order is not a pleasant situation. However, parents better wake up soon or life will soon be unbearable here in the good old U.S. of A.
Anne
Your final 2 sentence paragraph tells it all. I have been admittedly 'harping' on our youngsters for quite a while now, but I always get shushed down because "our kids are not that bad". People are having the wool pulled over their eyes. Teen, and 20 somethings lack of vocabulary is frightening. Give a teen a mathematical problem and tell them to solve it without aid of a calculator and they look at you as if you're talking Martian. Ask them the difference between they're, their, and there and few could tell you. Actually only the avid readers know. I know this is true because I have several grade levels in my own family and I see it. NY isn't alone, I know it's here in the Chicago area, and I'm pretty sure it's nationwide. I know I get on peoples nerves, but everyone wants their children to be better than they were, or are, and to admit or accept the facts that things are just not in good order is not a pleasant situation. However, parents better wake up soon or life will soon be unbearable here in the good old U.S. of A.
Anne
Anne
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jdb1
The lack of effectiveness of education systems isn't just nationwide, it's just about everywhere in the "industrialized" world.
My English friend just retired from 30 years of teaching in the state (our "public")system in northeast England, and she tells me that the decline has been steady and horrifying there as well. She had several run-ins with her head teacher (the principal) which are indicative of the mindset of management in schools. At one point, she made up a word - a student (these are middle school aged kids) was being noisy and she told him to stop being such a "____" I forget what it was, something like "snertwich," but it was just a funny, nonsensical word designed to get his attention. Don't you know he complained to his mum that "Mrs. Chappell cursed at me." Mum mentioned it to the head teacher, who immediately called an inquiry, not even bothering to speak to my friend about it. Fortunately, my friend's union stood up for her and smoothed things over.
In another instance, my friend called one of her students to the blackboard, and tossed the chalk to her as she approached the board. The girl told her dad that "Mrs. Chappell threw something at me," and the same nonsense occurred. You see, once the kids learned that they could cause this trouble, they looked for opportunities to do so. Things that we as teachers did routinely, even raising our voices to the class, are now subject to disciplinary action. No wonder nothing gets accomplished in the class. Teachers are afraid to open their mouths. My friend had another six months to formal retirement, but since she had already turned 60, the retirement age for teachers, she simply left. Sad, really. She's a great teacher.
My English friend just retired from 30 years of teaching in the state (our "public")system in northeast England, and she tells me that the decline has been steady and horrifying there as well. She had several run-ins with her head teacher (the principal) which are indicative of the mindset of management in schools. At one point, she made up a word - a student (these are middle school aged kids) was being noisy and she told him to stop being such a "____" I forget what it was, something like "snertwich," but it was just a funny, nonsensical word designed to get his attention. Don't you know he complained to his mum that "Mrs. Chappell cursed at me." Mum mentioned it to the head teacher, who immediately called an inquiry, not even bothering to speak to my friend about it. Fortunately, my friend's union stood up for her and smoothed things over.
In another instance, my friend called one of her students to the blackboard, and tossed the chalk to her as she approached the board. The girl told her dad that "Mrs. Chappell threw something at me," and the same nonsense occurred. You see, once the kids learned that they could cause this trouble, they looked for opportunities to do so. Things that we as teachers did routinely, even raising our voices to the class, are now subject to disciplinary action. No wonder nothing gets accomplished in the class. Teachers are afraid to open their mouths. My friend had another six months to formal retirement, but since she had already turned 60, the retirement age for teachers, she simply left. Sad, really. She's a great teacher.
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jdb1
Anne, going back to your comment about how some people think are kids are not that bad --
My daughter, a senior in college, commented to me the other day that although her classmates are bright and articulate, they don't seem to know anything. She said that consistently she is the only one in the class (this is in several literature classes) who knows history, knows about classic movies, knows about music and musicians, both classical and jazz, and so on. Have I mentioned (I'm sure I have) that by the time she was in the first few months of high school we were both so disgusted with the lack of quality that I withdrew her and home schooled her?
And all I did, mind you, was give her essentially the same high school curriculum that I had experienced, to which she added those things that interested her.
Alas and alack, my friends. I hope I haven't caused my daughter to be isolated from the general population because she cares about something other than her immediate wants and impulses.
My daughter, a senior in college, commented to me the other day that although her classmates are bright and articulate, they don't seem to know anything. She said that consistently she is the only one in the class (this is in several literature classes) who knows history, knows about classic movies, knows about music and musicians, both classical and jazz, and so on. Have I mentioned (I'm sure I have) that by the time she was in the first few months of high school we were both so disgusted with the lack of quality that I withdrew her and home schooled her?
And all I did, mind you, was give her essentially the same high school curriculum that I had experienced, to which she added those things that interested her.
Alas and alack, my friends. I hope I haven't caused my daughter to be isolated from the general population because she cares about something other than her immediate wants and impulses.
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jdb1
There's a fine line though, at some point ignorance can dig at the root of intelligence and destroy what vestiges of intelligence there is.jdb1 wrote:I always tell my daughter: Not stupid, just ignorant. At least ignorance can be cured.JohnM wrote:My youngest son is 17, and he is always exclaiming that his generation is stupid, compared to mine. Of course I agree!
Personally I believe that all this technology may have led to the decline of intelligence. If you really think about it we've become very lazy. We have spellcheckers, the internet, video games, dumbed down movies and TV.
It's as if we've exchanged the gifts of multi-tasking and becoming tactile with technology with our God given intelligence. God forbid that we lose Earth based satellites, the electrical grid and telecommunications due to a solar flare or something like that. We'd all devolve to barbarians!
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jdb1
I'm hoping that this decline is just temporary, and people will understand that technological advances are supposed to enhance human intelligence, not replace it.
A similar argument was raised when I was a girl and TV was new - that we shouldn't be allowed to watch it; it was taking up valuable homework time; it was rotting our brains and making us stupid, etc. I watched a lot of TV when I was a girl, in part because I was a latchkey kid and was required to stay home a lot of the time that my mother was out. Many of my friends did the same, and we still managed to learn and thrive in school.
I don't see TV as a threat, but as a tool. There is a lot of very good and informative material there, if only children were guided as to what's good and what isn't. That's what is lacking -- kids are plunked down in front of the set and left to stare, without reacting, at any old thing. And I don't mean kids should be watching "educational" programs exclusively. There is plenty to learn about life and the human condition in programs designed as simple entertainment. When I was a young woman and someone marveled at some esoteric (or, possibly, weird) comment I might make, I'd say "Well, you see, I know that because I watch television."
A similar argument was raised when I was a girl and TV was new - that we shouldn't be allowed to watch it; it was taking up valuable homework time; it was rotting our brains and making us stupid, etc. I watched a lot of TV when I was a girl, in part because I was a latchkey kid and was required to stay home a lot of the time that my mother was out. Many of my friends did the same, and we still managed to learn and thrive in school.
I don't see TV as a threat, but as a tool. There is a lot of very good and informative material there, if only children were guided as to what's good and what isn't. That's what is lacking -- kids are plunked down in front of the set and left to stare, without reacting, at any old thing. And I don't mean kids should be watching "educational" programs exclusively. There is plenty to learn about life and the human condition in programs designed as simple entertainment. When I was a young woman and someone marveled at some esoteric (or, possibly, weird) comment I might make, I'd say "Well, you see, I know that because I watch television."
Last edited by jdb1 on November 28th, 2007, 11:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
This is totally off topic, but I recall a few months ago commenting that Jennifer Love Hewitt wore babydoll pajama tops from the 50's and 60's as blouse tops in her series. I had forgotten how long it takes for fashion to travel from West to East across the U.S. and just now realized that she is simply wearing the newest HOT item - which is really just a rehash of vintage babydoll pajama tops. When these items were first introduced and worn, a girl would be mortified to be seen without a robe covering it. It's a shame to realize it only took two generations for an entire way of thinking to disappear and be replaced by something at the opposite end of the spectrum.
Actually though, I guess if my grandmother had been alive, she would have been mortified by seeing me wearing my first pair of short shorts. It's amazing how I can understand something like this, yet still have such a problem with teens language and different ways of phrasing things, not to mention their music.
I guess it's just things that are pounded into your brain as a child and stay there with no wish to re think them - now there's a NewWave word for you, re-think.
Anne
Actually though, I guess if my grandmother had been alive, she would have been mortified by seeing me wearing my first pair of short shorts. It's amazing how I can understand something like this, yet still have such a problem with teens language and different ways of phrasing things, not to mention their music.
I guess it's just things that are pounded into your brain as a child and stay there with no wish to re think them - now there's a NewWave word for you, re-think.
Anne
Anne
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jdb1
I've noticed, Anne, that this season Love is wearing more conventional and, for her, more conservative clothing, and I think this may be because she has JC Penney as a new sponsor. She's much more often in jeans and tee/polo shirts and sweaters, and only occasionally in those high-waisted clothes that make her look so very zaftig.
In any event, she looks worlds better, and I'm not a bit ashamed to be a fan of her lightweight, but entertaining show.
In any event, she looks worlds better, and I'm not a bit ashamed to be a fan of her lightweight, but entertaining show.
Judith:
This is in response to something you said a while ago about TV in general which is: "That's what is lacking -- kids are plunked down in front of the set and left to stare," the problem is exactly that. Kids are left with no supervision as to what they watch. There are so many good, educational, and fun to watch shows on, but unless the kids know about them, all they watch is cartoons. My granddaughter loves Liberty's Kids and she doesn't even know she's learning about the American Revolution, or that someday, when she has a question on a school test, the answer will come from something she remembers from that show. It's when a child has a choice between a 'good' show and something like the Simpsons and some jerk adult says 'yeah, let's watch bad boy Bart' that I get aggravated. This has happened BTW. And the adult was definitely a jerk.
Anne
This is in response to something you said a while ago about TV in general which is: "That's what is lacking -- kids are plunked down in front of the set and left to stare," the problem is exactly that. Kids are left with no supervision as to what they watch. There are so many good, educational, and fun to watch shows on, but unless the kids know about them, all they watch is cartoons. My granddaughter loves Liberty's Kids and she doesn't even know she's learning about the American Revolution, or that someday, when she has a question on a school test, the answer will come from something she remembers from that show. It's when a child has a choice between a 'good' show and something like the Simpsons and some jerk adult says 'yeah, let's watch bad boy Bart' that I get aggravated. This has happened BTW. And the adult was definitely a jerk.
Anne
Anne
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jdb1
Agreed (although I do enjoy The Simpsons).
I simply cannot fathom anyone sitting for hours in front of a TV and never reacting to what he/she's seeing. I always talk back to the set - how can you not - when I hear something particularly stupid, or specious, emanating from it.
I always provided a sort of running commentary on what I watched with my daughter when she was little. I didn't want her to simply accept any and everything coming from that box, and I wanted her to understand that she didn't have to. I also used to point out to her what were the good things to know - sort of get her used to filing usable information, since TV can be such a good source of worldwide information. It's a fine line to walk as a parent - trying to reinforce, without seeming controlling or preaching.
I hope that she is now a discriminating viewer -- I think she is.
I simply cannot fathom anyone sitting for hours in front of a TV and never reacting to what he/she's seeing. I always talk back to the set - how can you not - when I hear something particularly stupid, or specious, emanating from it.
I always provided a sort of running commentary on what I watched with my daughter when she was little. I didn't want her to simply accept any and everything coming from that box, and I wanted her to understand that she didn't have to. I also used to point out to her what were the good things to know - sort of get her used to filing usable information, since TV can be such a good source of worldwide information. It's a fine line to walk as a parent - trying to reinforce, without seeming controlling or preaching.
I hope that she is now a discriminating viewer -- I think she is.
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jdb1
A random thought:
I was just on the Barnes & Noble website browsing through their DVD collection to see if anything of interest (to me) is on sale. I noted a listing for a movie called Miracle of the White Stallions, which listed among its stars that distinguished German actor and cheesemaker, "Curd Jergens."
I was just on the Barnes & Noble website browsing through their DVD collection to see if anything of interest (to me) is on sale. I noted a listing for a movie called Miracle of the White Stallions, which listed among its stars that distinguished German actor and cheesemaker, "Curd Jergens."
At least they didn't call him Turd 
That reminds me that it seems most big novels that are released are fraught with little editorial mistakes. The one author who seems to have the most egregious spelling and grammatical mistakes in his books is John Grisham which is a little odd considering he is/was a practicing lawyer and most of those people are quite meticulous about those kind of things.
That reminds me that it seems most big novels that are released are fraught with little editorial mistakes. The one author who seems to have the most egregious spelling and grammatical mistakes in his books is John Grisham which is a little odd considering he is/was a practicing lawyer and most of those people are quite meticulous about those kind of things.