Kill Bill, Vols 1 & 2

[Hollis]

Good morning all,

I watched "Kill Bill, Vols 1 & 2" last night on IFC and I was wondering what the rest of you thought of them. You know that I'm not the most sophisticated of movie fans and I typically don't get much from films like these, but for whatever reason, I actually enjoyed these two. Your thoughts, observations and opinions please. Thanks in advance.

As always,

Hollis

[jdb1]

Hollis, I am completely put off by the seeming endless and mindless violence of these movies, which although gory as heck seems somehow detached from both the characters and the audience.

However, every time I flip the channels and one of the Kill Bills is on, I find myself watching much longer than I intend to. Ghastly and sophomoric plot, great execution. These are the only movies I like Uma in - generally she leaves me unaffected.

If only Tarantino would harness his considerable powers for Good.

[Moraldo Rubini]

Hollis, I am completely put off by the seeming endless and mindless violence of these movies, which although gory as heck seems somehow detached from both the characters and the audience. However, every time I flip the channels and one of the Kill Bills is on, I find myself watching much longer than I intend to. ...

Interesting, Judith. I have been completely put-off by the violence of these two films, so I've avoided them. Friends have told me how "the violence is sylized", "not real", "made to seem beautiful". That is still not alluring to me. I don't want violence to be "beautiful". But if you're compelled to watch more, in spite of your shared feelings regarding the violence, maybe I'll try to take it in small doses as you've found yourself doing...

[jdb1]

Hollis, I am completely put off by the seeming endless and mindless violence of these movies, which although gory as heck seems somehow detached from both the characters and the audience. However, every time I flip the channels and one of the Kill Bills is on, I find myself watching much longer than I intend to. ...

Interesting, Judith. I have been completely put-off by the violence of these two films, so I've avoided them. Friends have told me how "the violence is sylized", "not real", "made to seem beautiful". That is still not alluring to me. I don't want violence to be "beautiful". But if you're compelled to watch more, in spite of your shared feelings regarding the violence, maybe I'll try to take it in small doses as you've found yourself doing...

Marco, I wouldn't call it "not real," and I certainly wouldn't call it "beautiful." However, it's part of Tarantino's skill that he can somehow give us such, let's face it, brutality, at arm's length. It really is uncanny, and I think that's one of the things I find fascinating. Rather than "not real," I think I'd call it "surreal." These films operate on many levels - if you can get past the comicbook aspects, you will find something that's more like the experimental films of the 1920s.

One of the problems with these movies for me is that Tarantino attempts to cram in too much, too many cinematic tropes. The man knows what he's doing, but I think he's showing off a bit too much. These movies have so much going on in plot and visual references that it takes stamina to stick with them all the way through. I guess most viewers just focus on one element and get something out of it. I'd call both movies undisciplined to a degree.

As I said before, I'd like to see Tarantino attempt something more mainstream or, at least as mainstream as he'd ever get. I think we'd see something Michael Powell/Orson Welles-like if he did.

[mrsl]

The name alone puts me off to the point that I never had the slightest inclination to see any part of it. Some movies, not sure what they are, I will venture into, but just seeing that word 'kill' knocks me out. Also, Uma holds no interest for me in the very least.

Anne

[Mr. Arkadin]

I am not a huge Tarentino fan, but the man has an amazing gift for dialogue. Reservoir Dogs (1992) and Jackie Brown (1997) were two of the best films of the 90's in my opinion. I have not seen Kill Bill, but the main reason I have stayed away is because of reviewers stating that it does not have the same great dialogue of the earlier two films.

I did not care for Pulp Fiction (1994), by the way.

[Dewey1960]

I've watched the KILL BILL fims twice and found them to be exhilarating in the extreme; hugely enjoyable, especially Vol 2. I'm a big fan of all of Tarantino's films--they're ripe with cinematic extravagance and the types of visual references that keep the average filmgoer's brain racing in high gear. I even like FROM DUSK TIL DAWN, which Tarantino wrote and starred in with George Clooney and Harvey Keitel--Richard Rodriguez directed it--and it's fantastic!

[Moraldo Rubini]

One of the problems with these movies for me is that Tarantino attempts to cram in too much, too many cinematic tropes. The man knows what he's doing, but I think he's showing off a bit too much. These movies have so much going on in plot and visual references that it takes stamina to stick with them all the way through. I guess most viewers just focus on one element and get something out of it. I'd call both movies undisciplined to a degree.

Hmmm, now it's starting to sound like one of those "self-indulgent" films. I remember writing over at TCM that this derogatory term is key for me to finding movies that I like. So many Fellini films are considered "self-indulgent" and I love them. Bob Fosse's All That Jazz was the same. This description of Kill Bill actually sounds "rich", as if to get the most out of it one must watch it again and again. La Dolce Vita is a rich (self indulgent) film that left me cold when I first saw it, and now is among my favorites.

I am not a huge Tarentino fan, but the man has an amazing gift for dialogue. Reservoir Dogs (1992) and Jackie Brown (1997) were two of the best films of the 90's in my opinion. I have not seen Kill Bill, but the main reason I have stayed away is because of reviewers stating that it does not have the same great dialogue of the earlier two films. I did not care for Pulp Fiction (1994), by the way.

I enjoyed Jackie Brown and was thankful to see the beautiful Pam Grier back on the screen. Reservoir Dogs I've avoided due to its [I'm told] extreme violence. And here's a contradiction to my taste: Pulp Fiction. This movie knocked me out. I saw it on its opening night, so had little idea what was about to unfold before me. Yup, it was violent. And it was a ride. I loved it. I loved it so much, that I sat through it a second time. I believe this is the only movie that I've sat through twice in a row.

[Oh wait, there was that weekend when I saw Singin in the Rain 13 times.]

[Mr. Arkadin]

Reservoir Dogs has about the same amount of violence as Pulp Fiction in my opinion. The plot was taken from the foreign film City on Fire (1988), but the dialogue is pure Tarentino which discourses on such subjects as the deeper meaning of Madonna's "Like a Virgin", policy of tipping, or the reason why joking is not allowed during diamond heist planning sessions.

It's also much like a play in the fact that most of the scenes take place on one set (the warehouse). QT rehearsed the cast for two weeks before shooting. Many complained about this, but the results are amazing in the way the actors work off each other. The film seems to flow seemlessly through a verbal barrage that turns to all out assault as the sequences reach their climax. Truly, one of the great newer films.

[jdb1]

One of the problems with these movies for me is that Tarantino attempts to cram in too much, too many cinematic tropes. The man knows what he's doing, but I think he's showing off a bit too much. These movies have so much going on in plot and visual references that it takes stamina to stick with them all the way through. I guess most viewers just focus on one element and get something out of it. I'd call both movies undisciplined to a degree.

Hmmm, now it's starting to sound like one of those "self-indulgent" films. I remember writing over at TCM that this derogatory term is key for me to finding movies that I like. So many Fellini films are considered "self-indulgent" and I love them. Bob Fosse's All That Jazz was the same. This description of Kill Bill actually sounds "rich", as if to get the most out of it one must watch it again and again. La Dolce Vita is a rich (self indulgent) film that left me cold when I first saw it, and now is among my favorites.

I can point to a small distinction between the films of Tarantino and Fosse: I agree that All That Jazz is self-indulgent, but I would call it an exercise in self-regard, 80% ego. Tarantino's works, on the other hand, are cinematically indulgent. He uses so many effects and cinematic quotes because he can; but I think he keeps his own presence out of his movies. His films are dazzling, but there is an element of the student filmmaker about them: I know how to do this, and look - I also know how to do that, etc.

I agree also that the dialog in the Kill Bill series is pretty lame, but I think that's on purpose: it's like comic book dialog, and it's one of the things that keeps everything surreal so that the violence isn't overwhelming to look at.