The Silver Screen Oasis

The reason I addressed this to you, Miss G, is because I think you and I have discussed this particular movie before. After watching this movie for about the 10th time this afternoon. I have a couple of questions that you or some others might answer for me.

* Old Pappy Ford was pretty good with scenery, but with this movie, I think he met his match in William Wyler. Some of those overhead shots of the mountain pass were amazing - he captured the vastness, and deepness of the road running through all that rock. If you watched, what do you think?

* In addition to the camera work, the music was also exciting, very much like the music from the Magnificent Seven. I looked on IMDB but couldn't find who did the music. Does anyone know, and what else has he/she done?

* What did you think of Burl Ives sense of values, although off-kilter, in most of the instances he was involved in? Even though he was barely educated, he had a high moral belief that he did not cross. Even killing had certain rules that you followed and didn't mess with. Do you think a mans' moral values could make him mad/embarrassed enough to actually kill his own son?

* Throughout the whole movie, everyone except Jean Simmons considers Greg Peck to be a wimp because he refuses to openly fight, or 'prove' he's a man. I don't understand how they all never realized he was a sea Captain - a position that requires strength, and a command of men in most cases where it would be him and his few assistants like first mate, and maybe a co-captain, against the whole ships' company. Also, since she was so proud of him at first, you would think his fiance' would introduce and refer to him as 'the Captain' rather than just Jim. I love this movie and find it to be a little deeper each time I see it, just like I've done with Casablanca and The Searchers.

Anne

Anne:

Jerome Moross wrote the music. His imdb list would hardly qualify him as prolific. He spent more time as a conductor.

Elmer Bernstein wrote the music to "The Magnificent Seven." He was incredibly prolific in movies and TV. The styles are similar and sort of became the sound of westerns. Bernstein also wrote "The Sons of Katie Elder" and things as gentle as "To Kill A Mockingbird."

One thing I might address is their attitude toward Peck. My guess is they must have thought a sea captain would have been no better than a store keeper to them. Though he reminds them constantly of his prior history it is completely and regularly dismissed by everyone. My guess is that if Simmons believes him because he said so or at least sees enough of him to believe him.

More later.

Hi Anne!

The reason I addressed this to you, Miss G, is because I think you and I have discussed this particular movie before. After watching this movie for about the 10th time this afternoon. I have a couple of questions that you or some others might answer for me.

I'm always happy to talk about this wonderful movie.

* Old Pappy Ford was pretty good with scenery, but with this movie, I think he met his match in William Wyler. Some of those overhead shots of the mountain pass were amazing - he captured the vastness, and deepness of the road running through all that rock. If you watched, what do you think?

I quite agree. Wyler captures an overwhelming "emptiness" in the openness and the naked white caverns that is quite daunting---but not to Peck. he's seen "one or two oceans" as big.


* In addition to the camera work, the music was also exciting, very much like the music from the Magnificent Seven. I looked on IMDB but couldn't find who did the music. Does anyone know, and what else has he/she done?

It's a Jerome Moss' score, as Chris pointed out, and I agree with you that it adds immeasurably to the excitement---in fact, there is a rather measured, stately pace to the film that the music counterpoints beautifully, injecting energy at the right moments. Like when the men come riding into the canyon after Henry Terrill and Heston.

* What did you think of Burl Ives sense of values, although off-kilter, in most of the instances he was involved in? Even though he was barely educated, he had a high moral belief that he did not cross. Even killing had certain rules that you followed and didn't mess with. Do you think a mans' moral values could make him mad/embarrassed enough to actually kill his own son?

I find the Ive's "Hennessey" to be very complex, more so than Bickford's Terrill. At one point, Hennessey aludes to the "gentle teachings I was brought up on." And he knows all about the "gentleman's weapons" and procedure of dueling, which is more typical of the south and parts east. I think he may have had a "genteel" mother, at least that's what I suspect. Somewhere, he either left her (perhaps lost her in the Civil War?) and those gentle ways.

In some respects he's worse than Terrill in his ruthlessness toward his own sons, particularly Chuck Connors. I cannot quite figure out if the woman on his "ranch" is his wife or belongs to someone else. I had kind of the impression he was a longtime widow and this partly would explain his ruthlessness, since he's had to not only fight for "empire" with Henry Terrill but to bring up a bunch of wild young men up alone. Ultimately, to do the former successfully would require he become hard and ruthless as flint.

In most every other respect, he and Terrill are just two sides of the same coin.

* Throughout the whole movie, everyone except Jean Simmons considers Greg Peck to be a wimp because he refuses to openly fight, or 'prove' he's a man. I don't understand how they all never realized he was a sea Captain - a position that requires strength, and a command of men in most cases where it would be him and his few assistants like first mate, and maybe a co-captain, against the whole ships' company. Also, since she was so proud of him at first, you would think his fiance' would introduce and refer to him as 'the Captain' rather than just Jim. I love this movie and find it to be a little deeper each time I see it, just like I've done with Casablanca and The Searchers.

I guess Wyler is trying to show how isolationist the Terrill household is. They don't recognize any standard of behavior but their own. Jean Simmons is alluded to as having come from "quality" and is a schoolteacher, so she is educated enough to recognize Peck's more subtly displayed qualities.

It's a rich movie, one that provides plenty of food for thought.

Chris and Miss G:

Thank you both for your responses.

Chris: A couple of months ago someone told me who did the music for the Mag 7 and I read up on him a little after that. The difference is although the actual theme song is rousing and an up tempo, as Miss G said, other parts of his score are more tender and soft for Big Country. Nearly all of Bernsteins, although I like him a lot, are mainly loud and raucous (in a nice way).

Anne

Anne and Miss G

I have often thought a sequel to The Big Country might have been a good idea. Peck and Simmons would go of to live and work The Big Muddy, while a bitter cattle baroness Carroll Baker blames Peck and Simmons for the death of her father, as she takes over the running of the ranch. Disapproving of her brutal methods, such as hiring gunmen, Charlton Heston quits to join forces with Peck and Simmons.

The highlight of the film for me was when Heston refuses to follow Charles Bickford's Major into the canyon. The other cowboys also refuse to go along, so the Major rides in alone. As he rides he's joined by Heston, who in turn is joined by the other ranch hands.

Who did the men follow. Was it the Major or Heston's Steve Leach. IMO it was Heston

I agree with you Stuart. Heston followed out of a sense of loyalty to the Major, but the rest of them followed Hestons' lead, basically from loyalty to Heston.

Your idea of a sequel is great, but who, acting nowadays, could bring these characters to life the way those could? Please don't name that sleaze Russell Crowe - eeeeewwwww.

Anne

Welcome back Johnm, I was afraid you had left forever!

Anne

Ms Simmons & Baker sure look nice in pants!

mrsl wrote:.
Ken 1, 2, 3,

Sometimes you slay me Here's this great thread with these deep questions and answers about a big favorite movie, and you come along with how good the girls look in pants :!: :!: :!: Go sit on the dunce stool :!: :!:
.

a How ladies look in pants - a most important questoin. i

Oh, Ken, you must be eating your Wheaties this week, you scamp.

The Big Country was one of the first movies I ever saw Jean Simmons in when I was a kid. I thought then and I think now that she was one of the loveliest and fiercest cowgirls who ever rode the range. Btw, some of that ferocity she displayed may have reflected her feelings toward the director, William Wyler. She did not find him helpful, and left the set at least once to avoid a confrontation with him. In later years she usually said nothing about his style, but noted that Peck and the director had a tough time of it since they were co-producing the epic. A class act, on camera and off.

ken123 wrote:a How ladies look in pants - a most important questoin. i

Ladies in minis even more so !

oh, please! Ken, Mrs L hasn't said you could get off that chair yet......