Your fellow Looney,
Miss G
Ben Johnson
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MissGoddess
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Re: Ben Johnson
Hi, Jackie! I watched it last night (most of it) again and another thing I noticed about the fight scene is how Chris basically removes himself from the fracas once it becomes a "free for all." Why do you think he does that? I thought it could be because he knew he was beat but then I thought it was because he knew this had been between him and Shane and he wasn't the sort to be part of a "gang up". They had settled it between the two of them and as far as Chris was concerned, it was finished. I think at that point he really shows he's his own man. What do you think?? Maybe I'm way off base.
Your fellow Looney,
Miss G
Your fellow Looney,
Miss G
"There's only one thing that can kill the movies, and that's education."
-- Will Rogers
-- Will Rogers
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klondike
Re: Ben Johnson
I for one think you've nailed it, April; I missed it my first couple times or so, but when I got back around to it in the mid-90's, I scoped that big, sprawling scene more closely, and came to the same assessment you did.MissGoddess wrote: I thought it was because he knew this had been between him and Shane and he wasn't the sort to be part of a "gang up". They had settled it between the two of them and as far as Chris was concerned, it was finished. I think at that point he really shows he's his own man. What do you think?? Maybe I'm way off base.
Miss G
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JackFavell
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Re: Ben Johnson
Yes, I went back and looked at that too, when I first was crushing on Ben! I wanted to see if he was bad enough to jump him. He doesn't trample the Starrett's garden, either, even though all of Ryker's other men do.
After the fight, he gets up of the floor, then gives a look toward the men getting ready to jump Shane - he gives a little shake of his head and leaves. I think you are right, that for him, what's over is over and he is not the kind to gang up on someone. He was beaten fair and square and Shane is the better man, which he is man enough to accept. He sees Shane as a strong person who doesn't swagger and push his strength on others. He even starts to admire him, at least in my opinion. I think this is the beginning of his "redemption".
I love a bad man gone good.
After the fight, he gets up of the floor, then gives a look toward the men getting ready to jump Shane - he gives a little shake of his head and leaves. I think you are right, that for him, what's over is over and he is not the kind to gang up on someone. He was beaten fair and square and Shane is the better man, which he is man enough to accept. He sees Shane as a strong person who doesn't swagger and push his strength on others. He even starts to admire him, at least in my opinion. I think this is the beginning of his "redemption".
I love a bad man gone good.
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klondike
Re: Ben Johnson
And just about all the rest of us are transfixed by a now-good man struggling with the sinister, seducing coils in the man-cave of his guts, that keep whispering to his heart about how simple the big answer could be, if he unclenches his mental fist just enough . . .JackFavell wrote:
I love a bad man gone good.
You see it in all Johnson's roles, even the drifting, laconic character of Travis "Blue" Tyree (and yes, I'm convinced that he's playing the same oft-fugitive warrior {albeit in reverse time-line} in SWAYR, RG & WM), it's that pinched flash of eye as he looks sidelong at a nearby man, just before the shy grin kicks-in to rebalance his face . . notice how that calming transition takes a half-second longer in Shane, and is significantly faster in Mighty Joe Young, almost simultaneous?
It's that little winkle that telegraphs an infinitesimal message saying: don't forget, I could quicksilver-'round & nasty-knuckle you down through 3 broke ribs so almighty hard you'll wish you'd stayed a-bed or rode-out early . .
And I'm reasonably sure it's the ghost-like ripple of that very struggle that tics Ben's sunburnt face now & then, and makes him roll his shoulders against the creep of those chilly, high desert winds . . .
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JackFavell
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Re: Ben Johnson
Is this why he is my all time favorite, Klonny? I think you are so right. I hope I don't bore the heck out of you all while I talk about Ben even more....
He and Henry Fonda are the two actors I think of who can play both sides of the coin so well - the cold and the warm of a man.
It's the mixture of good and bad within Ben that makes me watch him.... the pride he has in his strength and abilities, but his battle within to keep that pride on the straight and narrow. When he's good, his humility is amazing, given his enormous talents. He knows, and we know he could best a man anytime at anything. He would never brag or boast about being the best.... he doesn't have to. And he knows what side he is on... he has a line he will not cross. This gives Ben's good characters a mythical quality. There is something so courtly and gentle about him - he is the man I would trust with my life, and I sure would like the opportunity to have him save me!
When he is bad, well, it's the same problem, his pride, his nature gets the best of him. He can't help it or more likely he won't. He's competitive to a fault, and most assuredly, he will not abide being a loser. He'll do anything to win. And it's you who better not cross the line. He is a coiled up snake waiting to spring.
I always have the feeling there is something going on deep inside him. Something he likes to keep hidden away down in his soul. It can be that simple confidence in himself, it can be the sorrow of a fallen sister, or it can be the hunger for gold. He can project tremendous warmth, or he can seem as icy as cold steel. You never know which is going to win him over in the end and he's going to keep you guessing. Sometimes, the icy comes out in his warm characters, if you threaten his "family", like in Rio Grande or Wagon Master. Sometimes, his cold characters are bubbling right under the surface - like Bob Amory in One Eyed Jacks. He is seething underneath that cocky exterior - he can't stand having anyone best him or tell him what to do. It is a threat to his manhood. He's itching for a fight. As long as you don't threaten him, you are OK. But don't be too weak either. Then you are asking for a bullet in the back, just for the fun of it.
In Bite the Bullet , his character's pride is buried under years of hardship. It is sadness that he is hiding - a weary knowledge that his time is over. He knows that most people overlook him. He pretends it doesn't matter. It's a rough road for a man with that inner pride. His most meaningful life experiences will go into the ground with him, never having been spoken. He won't get to fulfill his dream, and he knows it. But he doggedly keeps on hoping....
In Wagon Master, his past is shady - we know he is a card player, a gambler, and there is some question as to whether he is altogether honest in his horse trading. He doesn't want to take on the job of wagon master.... he's seen things, knows how hard it is... doesn't want the responsibility for a group of novice settlers. But when he takes the job, he accepts the risk as his own. He's going to do the best job he can. He shows great manliness in his thoughtful protection of the Mormon wagon train. He also shows us a tiny bit of his past in his careful judgment as to when to use a gun. He could be Shane, 3 years before he appears at the Starrett's homestead. Travis must make that same tough decision. Will he go against his sworn code of conduct ("I thought you never drew on a man?" "That's right, sir. Only on snakes.") or will his pride stop him?
Now I have talked about him all this time, and I still don't know how he does it, how this sweet natured man could play some of the most evil men in film and also some of the most human.
He and Henry Fonda are the two actors I think of who can play both sides of the coin so well - the cold and the warm of a man.
It's the mixture of good and bad within Ben that makes me watch him.... the pride he has in his strength and abilities, but his battle within to keep that pride on the straight and narrow. When he's good, his humility is amazing, given his enormous talents. He knows, and we know he could best a man anytime at anything. He would never brag or boast about being the best.... he doesn't have to. And he knows what side he is on... he has a line he will not cross. This gives Ben's good characters a mythical quality. There is something so courtly and gentle about him - he is the man I would trust with my life, and I sure would like the opportunity to have him save me!
When he is bad, well, it's the same problem, his pride, his nature gets the best of him. He can't help it or more likely he won't. He's competitive to a fault, and most assuredly, he will not abide being a loser. He'll do anything to win. And it's you who better not cross the line. He is a coiled up snake waiting to spring.
I always have the feeling there is something going on deep inside him. Something he likes to keep hidden away down in his soul. It can be that simple confidence in himself, it can be the sorrow of a fallen sister, or it can be the hunger for gold. He can project tremendous warmth, or he can seem as icy as cold steel. You never know which is going to win him over in the end and he's going to keep you guessing. Sometimes, the icy comes out in his warm characters, if you threaten his "family", like in Rio Grande or Wagon Master. Sometimes, his cold characters are bubbling right under the surface - like Bob Amory in One Eyed Jacks. He is seething underneath that cocky exterior - he can't stand having anyone best him or tell him what to do. It is a threat to his manhood. He's itching for a fight. As long as you don't threaten him, you are OK. But don't be too weak either. Then you are asking for a bullet in the back, just for the fun of it.
In Bite the Bullet , his character's pride is buried under years of hardship. It is sadness that he is hiding - a weary knowledge that his time is over. He knows that most people overlook him. He pretends it doesn't matter. It's a rough road for a man with that inner pride. His most meaningful life experiences will go into the ground with him, never having been spoken. He won't get to fulfill his dream, and he knows it. But he doggedly keeps on hoping....
In Wagon Master, his past is shady - we know he is a card player, a gambler, and there is some question as to whether he is altogether honest in his horse trading. He doesn't want to take on the job of wagon master.... he's seen things, knows how hard it is... doesn't want the responsibility for a group of novice settlers. But when he takes the job, he accepts the risk as his own. He's going to do the best job he can. He shows great manliness in his thoughtful protection of the Mormon wagon train. He also shows us a tiny bit of his past in his careful judgment as to when to use a gun. He could be Shane, 3 years before he appears at the Starrett's homestead. Travis must make that same tough decision. Will he go against his sworn code of conduct ("I thought you never drew on a man?" "That's right, sir. Only on snakes.") or will his pride stop him?
Now I have talked about him all this time, and I still don't know how he does it, how this sweet natured man could play some of the most evil men in film and also some of the most human.
Re: Ben Johnson
Wow. What an essay on one of the unsung heroes of film. I think, perhaps, also of life itself. Thanks JF.
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JackFavell
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Re: Ben Johnson
gulp.
I love the ring he's wearing. It looks to be the same one he's wearing in the more recent photo, just above this one.
I love the ring he's wearing. It looks to be the same one he's wearing in the more recent photo, just above this one.
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JackFavell
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- Joined: April 20th, 2009, 9:56 am
Re: Ben Johnson
It's his wedding ring, and it shows up everywhere. In fact, it's in the Shane fight scene photo too, even though I don't think he is married in that movie. I don't think he ever took it off.
Now I made myself cry thinking about how sweet and loving he was.
Now I made myself cry thinking about how sweet and loving he was.
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klondike
Re: Ben Johnson
My father once told me, back when I was a teenager & knew everything in the world, that having a good life wasn't all that hard for a man to achieve, he just needed to marry a Good Woman, who'd been raised by a Good Woman, and never forget how lucky he was.
On a related note, I remember overhearing my Mum telling my own bride, back when we were newlyweds, that the trick to turning a good man into a better one, was keeping his britches mended, and him inside of 'em.
Every day I think about the two of them, they just sound smarter & smarter!
On a related note, I remember overhearing my Mum telling my own bride, back when we were newlyweds, that the trick to turning a good man into a better one, was keeping his britches mended, and him inside of 'em.
Every day I think about the two of them, they just sound smarter & smarter!
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JackFavell
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- Joined: April 20th, 2009, 9:56 am
Re: Ben Johnson
.
Great reading material, Jack
Great reading material, Jack
Anne
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JackFavell
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Re: Ben Johnson
double gulp! that one looks like a "come-hither" smile.....oh my, what a way to start an icy snowy day.... 
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JackFavell
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