Same Western movie, different actors

[cmvgor]

DESTRY RIDES AGAIN (1939) James Stewart, Marlline Dietrich

DESTRY (1954) Audie Murphy, Mari Blanchard

(BOTH DIRECTED BY GEORGE MARSHALL)

[ken123]

The first version is by far the better of the two. The character actors in the first help immeasurably.

[mrsl]

Mr. Holmes,


"Stewart and Dietrich will always win in my book over Murphy. He was a nice kid from Texas but that is all".

The Stewart version is infinitely better, I could have thought of many, many prettier, and better actresses than Dietrich, but that's neither here nor there.

'A nice kid from Texas!' Only the most decorated soldier of WWII whose chest wasn't broad enough to display all of his medals in one sitting for photo shoots. Here's some:

His principal U.S. decorations included the Congressional Medal of Honor, Distinguished Service Cross, two Silver Star Medals, the Legion of Merit, two Bronze Star Medals with Valor device, and three Purple Hearts (for the three wounds he received in combat). Murphy participated in campaigns in North Africa, Sicily, Italy, France and Germany, as denoted by his European-African-Middle Eastern Campaign Medal with one silver battle star (denoting five campaigns), four bronze battle stars, plus a bronze arrowhead representing his two amphibious assault landings at Sicily and southern France. The French government awarded Murphy its highest award, the Legion of Honor (Grade of Chevalier). He also received two Croix de Guerre from France and one from Belgium. In addition, Murphy was awarded the Combat Infantryman Badge. Murphy spent 29 months overseas and just under two years in combat with the 3rd Infantry Division, all before he turned 21 years of age and was eligible to vote. c/o Audie's site.

Nice kid, huh?

Anne

[cmvgor]

To: mrsl;
Audie Murphy's undoubted accomplishments as a combat soldier and his unchallanged heroism are not the subject of this thread. Its about his performance in one role where humor was the objective. He did well in action and heavy, dramatic sequences; that was his strongest forte. As for lighter, comedic passages: The comparison of these two movies offers a rare opportunity to compare two actors'styles. Put aside the two different scripts for a moment, and compare one scene that is practically the same in both scripts -- breaking up the barroom fight between the two
saloon girls who are rolling on the floor. Murphy pours that bucket of water on them like a kid playing a prank. He seemed to have a need to let the audience know that this was funny, and he knew it was funny too.
Defending himself against Blanchard's retaliation, the same visable amusement. Stewart poured that water with the solumn expression of a
serious man doing a necessary job to put an end to an unseemly event.
The same serious evasion when Dietrich comes up off that floor on the attack. Stewart knew Comedy, he had a supurb sense of comedy timing, and he trusted the audience to know Funny when they saw it. My reactions: The Murphy interpretation = snickertittergiggle and smirk. The Stewart interpretation = lol, roll in aisle, pound on knee with fist until
back in control of self.
Easy mastery of comedy was not in Murphy's range; 'Joe Butterfly' and
'Guns of Fort Petticoat' also are weakened by his attempts at comedy, and no one faults him; no one holds it against him; we all pull for him.
But it works better to seek out 'The Unforgiven' or 'Posse From Hell' to see him work with material that leans on his strengths.

[cmvgor]

When I started this Topic, it was the end, not the beginning of a project that has occupied me for a while. Background: Over There on the Westerns Forum there is a Thread that was opened on 04/07/07 in which participants were asked to "NAME 100 WESTERNS YOU LIKE MOST". The last comment was posted on 04/16/97. A number of contributors did, indeed name 100 titles. Others got involved in discussions but named fewer titles. I didn't even try. But I paid close attention to the postings of
others, and I reached several conclusions, two of which relate to the present Topic:
1. For the present generation of Western fans, Audie Murphy's career seems pretty much yesterday's news. There were a few Kids mentioned,
but not the one from Texas. There were a few Duels around (at Diablo,
In The Sun), but not at Silver Creek. No 'Tumbleweeds', no 'Six Black Horses', no 'Walk the Proud Land'. The only one of his titles I could find was 'The Unforgiven' (1960), in which his is a support role.
2. On a fairly thorough scroll-down of that thread on this date, I found six posters who named 'Destry Rides Again' as one of their favorites. As
mentioned, no one named 'Destry." It was not on anybody's list.
The IMDb site of the movie 'Destry' includes some couple of dozen reviews by contributors, all writing, of course since the birth of the Internet. Most are aware of both movies, and, in fact, many prefer
'Destry Rides Again'. There is respect and affection for 'Destry' and for
Audie Murphy, but most consider the earlier movie the better one. The one or two who preferred 'Destry' concentrated on La Dietrich in their commentary. One of them, bless his/her heart, pointed out that Murphy was cast against type. That is quite true, and it is much more to the point
than my mumbles about a script that "did not play to his strengths". I'm grateful for that phrase.
I feel that the contributors to this Topic have done justice to the subject,
and to the respective performers.

[cmvgor]

SHolmes;
I've been reading your comments for some time; I'm aware of your creds and I respect them. My opinions are often in agreement with yours, and when they are not, I still respect yours.
My background re Murphy: I was a fan of his on the basis of 'The Kid
From Texas' and 'Duel at Silver Creek' before I was aware of him as anything other than a cowboy actor. The paperback printing of 'To Hell
And Back' , and the movie, came to my attention within a few weeks of
each other. Maturing critical analysis focused my attention on the weaknesses of some of his films, but I still pulled for him. This is common
enough; there are people in that business with thriving careers whom I do
not consider worth the price of a ticket, and there are some who feel that way about this actor that I do like. There are people, I suppose, who accept his performance in any instance. I like him when a well-crafted script, and a role within his range, show him off at his best. Anybody who
gets into that meshugedik business of getting in front of a camera
and pretending to be someone they're not needs friends and supporters;
I'm one of his. Even if I would select the origional film when I wanted to entertain a friend with the Tom Destry story.

Regards,
cmvgor

[cmvgor]

To: SHolmes;
Researching another question entirely, I ran across some info that applies to the discussions we have had about the career of Audie Murphy.
I was on the IMDb site of the 1957 movie Night Passage , and I found out that you have at least one prestigious athourity in agreement with you. I came to that site trying to trace down a scrap of info about
Brandon De Wilde. [ Of course, this is the movie where two of the five
Tom Destrys wound up playing the roles of brothers. Tom Mix (silent movie), John Gavin (1960's TV series) and Andy Griffith (Broadway stage)
appearently weren't invited.] The fact that that Stewart and Murphy had
wound up working together was something we had not mentioned before.
On the Trivia page of the site, a note is made that the origional director,
Anthony Mann, "pulled out of the project because he wasn't impressed with war hero-turned-actor Audie Murphy. Stewart and the director would
never make another picture together." James Neilson took over the reins
as director. WOAH! THE STEWART-MANN COLLABORATION BROKE UP OVER AUDIE MURPHY? We have users on nearby threads who may have
opinions and info about this. Other info on the IMDb site disputes some of it, at least in part.
Other information indicates that Stewart was taking over the making of his own hero/image, making it more what he preferred, and making a more amiable character than the conflicted protagonist that he had developed, under Mann's direction, since Winchester 73 in 1950. The
30 or so reviewers commenting on the site add to this discussion. The
conflict is still there; after all, Stewart's character is an ex-lawman, fired
because he gave his outlaw brother a break.
One poster points out that this is a meeting of two WWII heros (true),
and indications are that they got along just fine. Some are quite generous
with comments about Murphy's performance, a couple pointing out the
skill with which outlaw Murphy ("The Utica Kid") needles his manic boss
(Dan Duryea) without going too far.
Whatever effect Murphy's presence had on this event, I get the impression that it happened when Stewart began to assert himself, and to
form up the image of the Stewart hero that was more his than Mann's, and
that Stewart wanted it that way.
As mentioned, there may be Stewart or Mann fans among us who have
information on this subject. If so, I hope they log in.

---Oh. In view of the things we've been saying about ourselves on corresopndent Hollis' "downhill in a hurry" thread, and our hopes to have
civility and maturity prevail, I felt it would be unethical not to tell you what
I had discovered.

Ragards.

[Dewey1960]

With respect to Audie Murphy, I can only add that had he lived longer he could have had an extraordinary career in European-made westerns, much in the manner of Clint Eastwood. His somewhat wooden method of acting would have translated very nicely to that existential style that became emblematic of the so-called "spaghetti western." For a better idea of what I'm talking about, take a look at the 1966 Audie Murphy film THE TEXICAN (it turns up fairly often on the Western Channel). Filmed in Mexcio with a largely Mexican and Spanish cast (it was directed by Hollywood "B" veteran Lesley Selander), it's a highly entertaining and energetic picture. Broderick Crawford is the only other recognizable star in the cast and he's scarily effective as the heavy. But the interesting thing here is how good Murphy is in this violent revenge tale, one that calls upon him to be sullen and semi-communicative. It's very nicely shot (widescreen, color) and exciting to watch in that way that westerns filmed outside the country featuring American actors often were. I believe that if Murphy had had an opportunity to pursue this direction, his career might have been transformed into something akin to what Eastwood's subsequently became.

[mrsl]

I just read this entire topic and all the comments in it. I must apologize for seeming to attempt a hi-jacking. Being a huge admirer of Murphy, and proud of his accomplishments during WWII, the term "nice kid from Texas, but that is all", just dinged off a large bell in my head.

Audie was not much of an actor except in a few roles as everyone has said. I did like him in To Hell and Back, but he was just playing himself. After all. who knew the part better than he?

At this particular time in our history, we need all the heroes we can get, and to seemingly slough off one of our greatest heroes just brought me to full attention. I realize now, it was just a phrase, not an intentional slur. Again, I apologize for jumping to the wrong conclusion, my Italian blood sometimes curdles without any warning.

To make myself absolutely clear - I'll take Jimmy Stewarts' Destry anytime over Murphy, but I still would have preferred a Jane Russell type over Dietrich.

Anne

[Sue Sue Applegate]

Great points, Dewey. And interesting info, cmvgor.

Audie Murphy was an official American hero, but I think that all his drama from the war was more internalized than someone like Lee Marvin, who could use his experience to continue to chew up the scenery. But I believe
that Murphy could have his moments on screen as Dewey surmises with his quieter moments onscreen certainly more deservedly exploited in the European venue.

Mrsl, Jane Russell would have definitely made Destry a different film and given it a much different direction. I'll still vote for the Stewart version because Marlene's songs, though, had that certain zing.

[cmvgor]

NOTE: THE REMAINDER OF THIS TOPIC NOW LOOKS LIKE I HAD A LONG DIALOGUE WITH MYSELF. THE FACT IS THAT FORMER OASIS MEMBER SHOLMES POSTED FREQUENTLY ON THIS TOPIC. UPON BEING DISMISSED AS A MEMBER, HE HAS APPEARENTLY COME BACK AND HAS DELEATED ALL HIS POSTINGS ON THIS SUBJECT. THAT'S WHY I, AND PERHAPS OTHERS, SEEM TO BE ANSWERING QUESTIONS THAT HAVEN'T BEEN ASKED, AND RESPONDING TO ARGUMENTS THAT HAVEN'T BEEN MADE. I HOPE THIS TOPIC IS STILL WORTH THE READER'S TIME.
cmvgor

When I started this Topic, it was the end, not the beginning of a project that has occupied me for a while. Background: Over There on the Westerns Forum there is a Thread that was opened on 04/07/07 in which participants were asked to "NAME 100 WESTERNS YOU LIKE MOST". The last comment was posted on 04/16/97. A number of contributors did, indeed name 100 titles. Others got involved in discussions but named fewer titles. I didn't even try. But I paid close attention to the postings of
others, and I reached several conclusions, two of which relate to the present Topic:
1. For the present generation of Western fans, Audie Murphy's career seems pretty much yesterday's news. There were a few Kids mentioned,
but not the one from Texas. There were a few Duels around (at Diablo,
In The Sun), but not at Silver Creek. No 'Tumbleweeds', no 'Six Black Horses', no 'Walk the Proud Land'. The only one of his titles I could find was 'The Unforgiven' (1960), in which his is a support role.
2. On a fairly thorough scroll-down of that thread on this date, I found six posters who named 'Destry Rides Again' as one of their favorites. As
mentioned, no one named 'Destry." It was not on anybody's list.
The IMDb site of the movie 'Destry' includes some couple of dozen reviews by contributors, all writing, of course since the birth of the Internet. Most are aware of both movies, and, in fact, many prefer
'Destry Rides Again'. There is respect and affection for 'Destry' and for
Audie Murphy, but most consider the earlier movie the better one. The one or two who preferred 'Destry' concentrated on La Dietrich in their commentary. One of them, bless his/her heart, pointed out that Murphy was cast against type. That is quite true, and it is much more to the point
than my mumbles about a script that "did not play to his strengths". I'm grateful for that phrase.
I feel that the contributors to this Topic have done justice to the subject,
and to the respective performers.