Summer Under the Stars: August 2012 Schedule

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CineMaven
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Re: Summer Under the Stars: August 2012 Schedule

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A Guy Named Marco...Marco Place of our SSO FaceBook page had this to say about "A Guy Named Joe."
Finally saw this war-time romance, and was surprised at what -- to me -- didn't seem to work. Tracy seemed kind of cold about Dunne. The lines were there, but I didn't believe him. She didn't have the sparkle that she shares with Cary Grant, and he didn't have the warmth that one feels when he's near Kate. What gives? Then we meet Van Johnson, who was all charisma; but seemed so much younger than Irene. A young pup with the sophisticated lady. Since I knew nothing about the story, I kept expecting her to end up with Ward Bond; as their relationship seem to have warmth and hold promise. For the first time, Bond seemed to have potential as a romantic lead. I was befuddled.

Much of the dialogue was great though. Some good writing in there. And Fleming's direction was interesting. I loved the scene where Irene is packing her bags with her back to Ward Bond. They carry on a conversation with her facing en face to the camera, while we can see Bond -who is off camera - in the mirror. Nicely done!

Was glad to have another example of the visual metaphor of the characters walking out of the yawning doorway to their new "life" (see also Audrey Hepburn's last scene in "The Nun's Story" and John Wayne's finale in "The Searchers"). Now we see Tracy and a young Barry Nelson heading out of heaven to their next assignment."
And this is how "A Girl AKA Named CineM'Ava" ( as opposed to "A Girl Named Tamiko" ) responded to Marco over on the SSO's FaceBook page. ( Oh and speaking of Ava, I'll get to her later... )

I totally bought Tracy and Dunne in "A Guy Named Joe." I never bought Tracy with Hedy Lamarr. But I thought Dunne made Tracy seem sexy. I LOVED seeing the mature couple in love. Seeing Van dance with Esther Williams ( who is an absolute totally rockin' 1940's dream girl ) normally, I'd say those two gorgeous twenty-something kids belong together in the way Hollywood dictates love should go in the movies. But I believed Van with Dunne. In fact, they could have kissed just a little bit more, for my tastes, but I could see the censors kind of holding them back.

Tracy and Dunne were believable to me. When he asked her to sing again “I’ll Get By” I loved the way he looked at her. I believed him. Here is square-framed, meat and potatoes 1940’s Tracy; a reminder of the brash curmudgeonly braggadocious Tracy of the 30’s. Still trying to hide how he feels by being non-verbal with the girl he loves. I felt that I could see them do two or three more films together. Dunne did not have that twinkle in her eye, you say? Listen, I imagine when a gal is working opposite Cary Grant, those twinkles are involuntary. That “twinkle” was replaced by mutual respect. I loved their dancing together, and their banter. And “Pete” loving that “Durinda” could hold her own in the air...and in their relationship...and maybe she had to prove how MUCH she loved HIM before he relented to doing WHATEVER SHE wanted. ( Win-win for both. )

I loved the fact that Pete wasn’t a good kindly altruistic angel. He didn’t want Durinda sitting under the apple tree with anybody else but him. ( “Apple tree” a euphemism for...you know. ) Van Johnson too young? Not in this day and age of lions and tigers and ‘cougars’...oh my. But back then, yeah, probably...but I still think that worked. And women have to mother and baby most of you men anyway. ( I believed them a heckuva lot more than I believed “Cass Timberlane.” )

SIDEBAR #1: My western gals over on the actual SSO site probably would probably be bowled over with disbelief when I say this, but I always want to jump Ward Bond’s bones. He’s a big gruff teddy bear. Yummy!

SIDEBAR #2: I loved Tracy with Barrymore. Tracy very much looked like the student opposite the Master Actor.

I’m sure Moira has the 4-1-1 on whether Spencer Tracy and Irene Dunne got along swell on set or not. ( How ‘bout the scoop, Moira? ) I’d like to hear it.

But what care I.

I believed what I felt on camera.
Last edited by CineMaven on August 28th, 2012, 6:31 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Summer Under the Stars: August 2012 Schedule

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kingrat wrote:I'm not sure where to put these comments on Spencer Tracy and A GUY NAMED JOE, but maybe this will work.
This is as good a place as any. I was looking for you here. Hi. :-)
Maven mentioned A GUY NAMED JOE in connection with the group’s ongoing conversation about 1940s romantic fantasies. She even asked that when I spoke of it in future years, to be kind. Kinder than to the film that’s the source of that quote, for sure... What I don’t like is the love affair between Spencer Tracy and Spencer Tracy.
Ha-haaaa! That got me. (( :lol: )) Here we go.
Tracy understood how to act for films. I would not necessarily, as some do, describe his acting style as natural. In comparison with most silent acting, it is. When a director gives him his head and the camera set-ups favor him, as Minnelli does in FATHER OF THE BRIDE or Victor Fleming does in A GUY NAMED JOE, Tracy will run amok, adding extra helpings of cuteness and look-at-me antics by the nanosecond.
HA!!! ( When I say "HA!!!" it means I literally "HA!!!" in a sort of half-laugh as I read your response. ) Wow, I can't say the extra helpings of cuteness ever registered on me. He mugs for the camera....
Two examples from AGNJ: 1) look at the scene on the patio where Van Johnson proposes to Irene Dunne and she accepts. Check out the shot where Tracy is between the two, with the key light on him, the secondary light on Van Johnson, and poor Irene Dunne—hey, how did she get in this scene anyway?—is dimly seen in profile. Meanwhile, Tracy mugs with a new expression every few seconds.
That got a laugh outta me about Irene. I did notice the gauze and Vaseline soft focus on her though. Do you think Tracy was purposely trying to steal the scene...upstage 'em? I honestly didn't notice his mugging, but I'll look for that next time.
2) The final shot of the film has a gigantic Tracy at the left looking at Dunne and Johnson, dim figures far away at the center of the screen. They may be uniting in romantic love, but the shot is all about Tracy’s reaction to it. If you’ve wondered what Clark Gable meant when he feared that George Cukor would throw GWTW to Vivien Leigh, what Fleming does here for Tracy is a perfect example. For my taste, AGNJ is too unbalanced, minimizing the actual romantic couples. If you really love Spencer Tracy, that may not be a problem, but for me that makes AGNJ less satisfying than a number of other 40s romantic fantasies.
You got sumthin' there, Bub. And one of the keys is: "If you really love Spencer Tracy..." I'm not a big Spencer Tracy fan. I wouldn't run to see a movie b'cuz I wanted to see HIM. For me, he needs a leading lady I like to draw me into him. ( That reminds me of a rendez-vous I had one Xmas Eve with the same premise, but that's another story... ) I respect his talent, but respect has very little to do with my relationship with movies. I feel them...viscerally...emotionally; and if I wind up liking an actor that I just merely respect, b'lieve me, it's like a cherry on top for the actor. Tracy sometimes gets me to like him in films; and the key for my liking him is b'cuz I believe I know what his persona is and have a handle on what he's trying to do: ( "I'm the gruff guy that needs a comeuppance and I was pretty good at that until Gable took all my thunder." ) UHmmmmm....that's me imitating Tracy.

As for balance, if you think that MGM will have their big star in a film, and not give him the close-ups, the key light, the foreground, or the focal point of the plot...well, you just don't know the studio system in Upper Sandusky. I believe the romance of Dunne & Johnson was secondary; that it was all about Joe, er...Pete and his coping with his new status...as angel. And they didn't make him a beatific, altruistic angel either. I absolutely see wha'cha mean, Brother Rat, when you make this Case in Point #2. But I receive the information intuitively that TRACY is the Story and Dunne's reaction to dealing with grief and moving on was secondary.
Barry Nelson gives a great film performance as Tracy’s flyer/angel guide. His part is almost all listening and reacting, and he’s on screen with Tracy, and he registers strongly.
Yep, I agree. And I believe that takes acting too.
According to RO, Tracy wanted Hepburn as his co-star, and he was mean to Irene Dunne when she was cast instead. Perhaps he worked actively to undermine her role? Katharine Hepburn and Van Johnson as a romantic couple? That could have been as disastrous as Hepburn and Robert Mitchum in UNDERCURRENT.
I had a feeling you might not like the film and just hoped you wouldn't obliterate and annihilate it in your review. ( I liked the good points you pointed out about the movie. ) It's Tracy's performance that bothers you, and I get it. I missed Robert-O's intro and outro of the movie. And I've read that Tracy and Dunne weren't two peas in a pod during production. Sorry Spence, but I don't think Kate would have been right for this movie ( Don't make me bring up "Dragon Seed." ) and it's not just the potential non-chemistry factor between her and Van. ( Weren't they both in "State of the Union"? ) I really think Irene Dunne was great in this part; playful and serious; mature and very attractive. I believed them ( Tracy / Dunne...see, I give him top billing ) as a couple. Hey, maybe that's where their acting really comes into play. They can make me believe them even if they run to their dressing rooms in disgust when the director says "CUT!"
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Re: Summer Under the Stars: August 2012 Schedule

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Regal. Regular. Glamorous. Down to earth. Haughty. Vulnerable. Sensuous. Heartbreaker. Earthy. Heartbroken. All this and more is wrapped up in one word which says it all:

AVA.


Image

A poor girl from North Carolina. She was beautiful, and a better actress than people gave her credit for. A better actress than even she gave herself credit for.

ImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImage

She shared the screen with some pretty good leading men: Lancaster, Taylor, Mason, Douglas, Bogart, Power among them:

ImageImage Image Image

Do you have three-minutes? Are you sitting uninterrupted at a computer? Close your eyes and listen to Frankie:

[youtube][/youtube]

I think most songs lead to AVA.
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Re: Summer Under the Stars: August 2012 Schedule

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You mean his name was Pete? Who the heck is Joe? I formally retract my previous rather snotty post with much apology.

Tracy just loved Lionel Barrymore, and went to see him many times on stage when he was a young up and coming actor. Barrymore was his idol. Sometimes, if he was too broke to catch the play, he would simply stand outside the theatre, waiting to watch Barrymore leave after the show, too shy to say anything. This must have been a dream come true for Tracy to act opposite him.
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Re: Summer Under the Stars: August 2012 Schedule

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JackFavell wrote:You mean his name was Pete? Who the heck is Joe?
A Guy Named Joe gets its title from a comment made during an early scene between Tracy and some British kids at a fence at the airfield. Joshing around with them, he remarks that they don't even know his name. One of children, in an exchange with Tracy, is told, "that's what all American soldiers are called, guys named Joe." I don't think that any characters are named Joe in this movie. The title, of course, reflects the filmmakers' desire to tell a fairly universal story about a regular guy caught up in the war.

Btw, one of the British children at the airport scene is Edward Hardwicke, the son of Cedric Hardwicke, and later a fine actor himself, remembered best for his role as Watson to Jeremy Brett's Sherlock Holmes and as C.S. Lewis' more worldly brother in Shadowlands.
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Re: Summer Under the Stars: August 2012 Schedule

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Thanks so much for the info, Moira! I should have remembered that, but I confess I didn't. That'll teach me to weigh in on a subject I know very little about, my ignorance is showing.
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Re: Summer Under the Stars: August 2012 Schedule

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Oh, please don't be so hard on yourself. Clearly, this film touched you and CineMaven very deeply. We are all different, but that's no news flash to either of you--that's what makes things fun to discuss. After all, such a thing is only a cherished dream--er, I mean-- movie!
kingrat wrote:Those pictures of Tyrone Power are amazing. Moira, I loved that scene in JOHNNY APOLLO with Ty and Dorothy Lamour on the stairs just as much as you did. I'd never seen the film, and at first was saying, "That can't be Dorothy Lamour. But there's no other important female character, so it has to be." She was convincing as a gangster's moll, found all the right emotions, and had great chemistry with Tyrone Power. She would seem to have had all the requirements for a major screen career of a different kind.
I am so glad that others enjoyed that (fairly) gratuitous screen cap of Tyrone Power in Jesse James in all his jaw-dropping Technicolor glory.

Johnny Apollo was the movie I always think of as the beginning of Power's growing up as a screen actor. Seeing this movie a few years ago it dawned on me that there was more capacity for dramatic expression inside that face than expected. His previous cinematic confections are very enjoyable sometimes, but this was a bit of a revelation for me too. It probably didn't hurt that he was working with very good actors like Nolan, Edward Arnold and Charlie Grapewin (his part of the film was wonderful!).

Perhaps that is one reason why Dorothy Lamour was so good too. Since seeing this movie, I've searched for follow-up films that tapped her potential as this one did, but so far have only found two that suggest anything close to it: A Medal For Benny (1945), which is never shown anymore and Manhandled (1949), which was the last movie she made at Paramount (after she had committed the fatal error of being 35 years old). Neither of them are as good as Johnny Apollo. Her beauty was so often emphasized, and sometimes that had its own meaning, as her exotic look, not her words, enhanced her gentle performance as Jon Hall's tempest-tossed wife in John Ford's The Hurricane. I remember reading her philosophically bemused autobiography several years ago. I think she felt that her "sarong roles" were fine with her, as were her comedy turns on screen, but ultimately, she may have had untapped talent that movies never really developed.
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Re: Summer Under the Stars: August 2012 Schedule

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[u]JACK[/u] [u]FAVELL[/u] wrote:Well, KR, all I can say is, it is called A Guy Named Joe. It's not called A Girl Named Dorinda or A Guy Named Ted. Unfortunately, if you don't like Spencer Tracy, this movie is just not going to be your cup of tea, because as the title character, he's going to be in pretty much every shot. Have you seen The Old Man and the Sea? There's a lot of Tracy in that one. And the sea. :D
D'ohhhhhh! I dare say Tracy could upstage the Atlantic. But he'd better not try any tricks with the Meditteranean or the Aegean!!
You mean his name was Pete? Who the heck is Joe? I formally retract my previous rather snotty post with much apology.
[u]MOIRA[/u] [u]FINNIE[/u] wrote:A Guy Named Joe gets its title from a comment made during an early scene between Tracy and some British kids at a fence at the airfield. Joshing around with them, he remarks that they don't even know his name. One of children, in an exchange with Tracy, is told, "that's what all American soldiers are called, guys named Joe." I don't think that any characters are named Joe in this movie. The title, of course, reflects the filmmakers' desire to tell a fairly universal story about a regular guy caught up in the war.

Look, I say a Joe by any other name would smell as Pete. :shock: :roll: TAXI!!!!
Oh, please don't be so hard on yourself. Clearly, this film touched you and CineMaven very deeply. We are all different, but that's no news flash to either of you--that's what makes things fun to discuss. After all, such a thing is only a cherished dream--er, I mean-- movie!
Image
Johnny Apollo was the movie I always think of as the beginning of Power's growing up as a screen actor...It probably didn't hurt that he was working with very good actors like Nolan, Edward Arnold and Charlie Grapewin (his part of the film was wonderful!).
I taped a number of his movies on his day, but didn't get to watch all of "Johnny Apollo" yet. I think King Rat also mentioned how good Grapewin was in this. No doubt I've got to rewind the tape and start watchin'.
Perhaps that is one reason why Dorothy Lamour was so good too. Since seeing this movie, I've searched for follow-up films that tapped her potential as this one did, but so far have only found two that suggest anything close to it: A Medal For Benny (1945), which is never shown anymore and Manhandled (1949), which was the last movie she made at Paramount (after she had committed the fatal error of being 35 years old). Neither of them are as good as Johnny Apollo. Her beauty was so often emphasized, and sometimes that had its own meaning, as her exotic look, not her words, enhanced her gentle performance as Jon Hall's tempest-tossed wife in John Ford's The Hurricane. I remember reading her philosophically bemused autobiography several years ago. I think she felt that her "sarong roles" were fine with her, as were her comedy turns on screen, but ultimately, she may have had untapped talent that movies never really developed.
Miss Lamour is on a very long line of a stunning company of Movie Stars whose looks were somewhat of a deterrent in being ALL that they could be...as Actors.

Image

Geez, if you have to go down in flames...you might as well go down swingin' with faces like these.

Image

Lamour makes me think of a combination of Katy Jurado and Aline MacMahon. No doubt, she is stunning.
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Re: Summer Under the Stars: August 2012 Schedule

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I think she and Sylvia Sydney were very underrated because of their exotic looks, though Syl got a lot more to work with script wise.

I have to add my appreciation of Charley Grapewin in Johnny Apollo. He's just fantastic in this film! but then, he's fantastic in anything he ever did. I think the reason we all noticed him in Johnny A was that it was a huge step away from those hicks and crazy grandpas that Grapewin made super real. His mannerisms and stupendous talent for filling out his characterizations of various old coots with fidgeting or other addle-pated business makes you sometimes forget he was an actor. I swear if someone said to me that Grapewin was actually senile the whole time he was working, I would believe them, that's the strength of his performances.

But here in Johnny A, he was neither senile, nor abnormally foolish, and the role was written so wonderfully, with massive contradictions which still fit together to make a really great character. I hope 1940's audiences got a good look at this picture and thanked their lucky stars they had a talent like Grapewin on their movie screens.
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Re: Summer Under the Stars: August 2012 Schedule

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CRAZY GRANDPAS AND VARIOUS OLD COOTS...

Wow. What a rousing testimony to Charley Grapewin, Wendy. Once again...my interest is piqued.

And I agree with you about Sylvia Sidney, though she was probably held in higher esteem by the Acting community. Once Dottie put on that sarong...it was over in terms of truly being taken seriously. A shame.
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Re: Summer Under the Stars: August 2012 Schedule

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[u]KING[/u] [u]RAT[/u] wrote:...There's no reason A GUY NAMED JOE couldn't balance Tracy and Dunne's roles: she recovers from grief, he lets her go. The story would be much more moving this way. Mrsl, I've read other reviewers who also think Spielberg's remake balances the roles better.
I hear ya loud and clear KR about the balance. I know in the past, the big stars were played up and played up to in a much more obvious way. As for "ALWAYS" I didn't like that film at all; not one iota of emotion.
Re-think the last shot of AGNJ: a closer shot of the lovers embracing, as a background Tracy walks off into the mist or the mist covers him up. That might bring more of a lump to the throat.
I like it. I like it a lot. My throat was already pretty lumpy but hey...I like your vision.
I do think AGNJ is interesting in terms of genre: is this a woman's film for men? Most of the audience would have been female. As Jeanine Basinger has pointed out, there are women's films with male protagonists ( LEAVE HER TO HEAVEN, for one.)
Most of the audience in the 40's were probably women...sitting in movie theatres and apple trees...dateless. But oooh, you've just sent my mind reeling, man. That's an interesting topic for discussion: Women's Films starrrrring Men...Men's Films starrrrring Women. I think Wendy hit on that with her thought provoking post on a "Men's Film" for women, when she wrote about "BATTLE CRY" a coupla months ago. If one hasn't read it, click on this picture of Tab and Dorothy here:

Image

and scroll down to Wendy's May 11th entry. I totally could see it that way...might be the only way I ( A Woman ) could get through a war ( Men's ) movie.
A film with many points of similarity to AGNJ is HIGH BARBAREE, which can be seen on Sept. 10 on TCM.
WHOA!!! Hold on. Stop the presses!! I remember you talking about this movie, also a couple of months ago in the LIST thread:
[u]KING[/u] [u]RAT[/u] wrote: Oh no, it's Maven's challenge to me to name 10 American delicate romantic films from the 1940s. Me and my big mouth! How about...
...And explaining the plot to April:
MissG, High Barbaree is a June Allyson/Van Johnson film. They meet as children--these scenes are quite well done. They hear of an island in the Pacific called High Barbaree which is similar to Bali Hai in South Pacific. Eventually, Van goes off to war in the Pacific and his plane crashes. June is a WAVE who refuses to believe that he is dead. Jack Conway does an outstanding job of direction. I know some people don't like June and Van, but they are both quite good in this. I believe Moira is also fond of this film, which TCM showed within the last year. - ( 6/6/12)
I cannot wait to see it!!
But today is Ava's day. Maven, thank you for those great pictures of a gorgeous star.
Sure thing. Wasn't she gorgeous?

Seriously, thank you again King Rat for taking me up on my suggestion and watching "A GUY NAMED JOE."
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Re: Summer Under the Stars: August 2012 Schedule

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.
I started to write something about Ava Gardner, but figured enough people here are mad at me so I won't, but I do thank you for that explanation of the title of the movie. As many times as I've seen it, I never caught the very beginning so I never saw the scene with the kids, but I did wonder, and thought the name of 'Always' was more appropriate for the remake.
.
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Re: Summer Under the Stars: August 2012 Schedule

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The little English boy says, "in America, a right chap is always called Joe". I had never heard that line before, either, MrsL.
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