MUSINGS, PONDERINGS, RUMINATIONS AND FANCIES

[Bronxgirl48]

Thanks, CI and Hibi re: BUNNY O'HARE. I must have been remembering the poster because I can't recall actually seeing this movie, although maybe I did decades ago and tried to forget, lol. One piece of knowledge I know about Ernie is that he was from Connecticut and so technically a New Englander (like Massachusetts Bette, which I am sure further cemented their professional relationship), and I can always hear his broad "a's".

[Bronxgirl48]

Didn't David Brian's face look like the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man?

I have always thought so.

[CinemaInternational]

My Baby Boomer memory is trying to remember the second Ernie and Bette pairing.....is it BUNNY O'HARE? Seem to vaguely recall Davis, Borgnine (or both?) on a motorcycle but maybe I'm confusing it with HAROLD AND MAUDE.

It is, and the poster does feature Bette and Ernest on a motorcycle, so that probably did indeed happen in the film. It's one of the very few films of hers that I have not seen. (Bette is the star I have seen the most films of, somewhere around 75 films)

I remember seeing it on TCM years ago. I remember it as being pretty bad. Bette and Borgnine do their best. I remember Bette badmouthing the film at the time and blaming AIP for ruining the film.

It wouldn't surprise me if AIP took some scissors to the film. Several years later, they released Vincente Minnelli's final film A Matter of Time starring Liza and Ingrid Bergman. The original director's cut was 165 minutes; AIP went crazy editing it themselves and released it with a runtime of 98 min. What little was left was actually decent, but even a casual viewer could feel that it had been dismembered.

[Hibi]

Yes, I think that was the case (the editing) AIP made it more of a caper film and cut the dramatic scenes.

[Detective Jim McLeod]

I caught the last half hour of the Samuel Fuller documentary A Fuller Life (2013).

Fuller wrote in his memoirs that FBI director J. Edgar Hoover visited him about Fuller's Pick Up On South Street (1953). The film was about a pickpocket (Richard Widmark) who gets a hold of some secret microfilm of Communist spies. Hoover was upset that the Widmark character was unpatriotic, he especially hated the line where he says "Are you waving the flag at me?" Fuller told him it was the character talking, not himself. I would have thought Hoover would have liked the film, since the Commies are portrayed as brutal scum.

Fuller went on to say he could not understand why when a story is told from the POV of a character someone does not like, it is immediately thought of as bad. It seems this still happens today, many times if a main character is not particularly nice or likable, some people hate the film and go after the writer/director, thinking they are just like the character.

Any musings or ponderings on this?

[jamesjazzguitar]

I caught the last half hour of the Samuel Fuller documentary A Fuller Life (2013).

Fuller wrote in his memoirs that FBI director J. Edgar Hoover visited him about Fuller's Pick Up On South Street (1953). The film was about a pickpocket (Richard Widmark) who gets a hold of some secret microfilm of Communist spies. Hoover was upset that the Widmark character was unpatriotic, he especially hated the line where he says "Are you waving the flag at me?" Fuller told him it was the character talking, not himself. I would have thought Hoover would have liked the film, since the Commies are portrayed as brutal scum.

Fuller went on to say he could not understand why when a story is told from the POV of a character someone does not like, it is immediately thought of as bad. It seems this still happens today, many times if a main character is not particularly nice or likable, some people hate the film and go after the writer/director, thinking they are just like the character.

Any musings or ponderings on this?

Like Fuller, I don't understand that POV either. I like a lighthearted story with a happy ending, but literature, plays, and movies would be rather bland if they didn't focus on all type of human characteristics. Take your avatar photo from Detective Story (1951): Detective Jim McLeod is not a nice or likable character. He is a very troubled person full of rage and other complex emotions. The film is first rate and a fine, but sad telling of what happens to people that can't break free from their past.

Something I don't think I ever asked you; How do you feel about the ending or Detective Story? I think it is a little too "neat". Would it have been better if the detective lived? That would have been a fate worse than death and thus more 'noir'.

[Dargo]

In these regards (in regard to Hoover's reaction to this Fuller film that is) I'd say a parallel could easily be drawn with the case of another top governmental type "not getting it".

I'm talking about how Winston Churchill "couldn't get" the idea that Messrs. Powell and Pressburger's film "The Life and Death of Colonel Blimp" was actually a very patriotic (pro-British) film.

(...saaaay, maybe, AND at the risk of startin' somethin' here, this might be the general trait of most if not ALL conservative politicians, governmental types AND those in the general public who hold these kinds of views?...uh-huh, maybe they're just too damn dense to understand the more subtle things in life, RIGHT?!...HEY, well I THINK I might be onto somethin' here, anyway!!!)

LOL

[Detective Jim McLeod]

Something I don't think I ever asked you; How do you feel about the ending or Detective Story? I think it is a little too "neat". Would it have been better if the detective lived? That would have been a fate worse than death and thus more 'noir'.

No, the ending worked for me, I think McLeod was a classic "tragic hero" in that he suffered a trauma (abuse by his father), has a fatal flaw (extreme righteousness) meets a significant downfall (death at the hands of a criminal). If he lived, it might hint at him getting back with his wife, a kind of open "happy ending" which I don't think would have fit with the whole picture.

[Detective Jim McLeod]

(...saaaay, maybe, AND at the risk of startin' somethin' here, this might be the general trait of most if not ALL conservative politicians, governmental types AND those in the general public who hold these kinds of views?...uh-huh, maybe they're just too damn dense to understand the more subtle things in life, RIGHT?!...HEY, well I THINK I might be onto somethin' here, anyway!!!)

LOL

Well, maybe back in the day, but today it's so called liberals who whine and complain about comedians and fictional characters in movies they don't like. They can't take a joke, don't understand irony or metaphors. Some are so dense they don't realize some words have double meanings or some that sound the same, which are homophones, though they might say that is a homophobic word, an insult to gay telephones.

[Dargo]

(...saaaay, maybe, AND at the risk of startin' somethin' here, this might be the general trait of most if not ALL conservative politicians, governmental types AND those in the general public who hold these kinds of views?...uh-huh, maybe they're just too damn dense to understand the more subtle things in life, RIGHT?!...HEY, well I THINK I might be onto somethin' here, anyway!!!)

LOL

Well, maybe back in the day, but today it's so called liberals who whine and complain about comedians and fictional characters in movies they don't like. They can't take a joke, don't understand irony or metaphors. Some are so dense they don't realize some words have double meanings or some that sound the same, which are homophones, though they might say that is a homophobic word, an insult to gay telephones.

Excellent point here, Jim. I actually agree with you here.

And also, as you may know, one Mr. Bill Maher, who also is waxing on lately about this very issue.

(...SEE?!...we political CENTRISTS of the world DO INDEED have the ability to "get it" when it comes to this sort of thing)

[jamesjazzguitar]

Something I don't think I ever asked you; How do you feel about the ending or Detective Story? I think it is a little too "neat". Would it have been better if the detective lived? That would have been a fate worse than death and thus more 'noir'.

No, the ending worked for me, I think McLeod was a classic "tragic hero" in that he suffered a trauma (abuse by his father), has a fatal flaw (extreme righteousness) meets a significant downfall (death at the hands of a criminal). If he lived, it might hint at him getting back with his wife, a kind of open "happy ending" which I don't think would have fit with the whole picture.

I understand your point. I clearly wouldn't want anything close to a happy ending, and there is no way I would want his wife to take hin back. Instead, I view his death as a sort of "happy ending" for him. As I stated, having to live with himself would have been a fate worse than him dying. I.e., Getting killed was the best thing that could happen to him since he had nowhere to go but further down. Thus, my point about it being a little too 'neat'.

[Dargo]

Here's a musing for you folks! Just saw it on the news.

Al Pacino has just shattered the record formerly held by Anthony Quinn for 27 years.

That being the oldest big name actor to father a child. Quinn was 81 at the time, and Pacino is 83.

(...well, as they say, you can't keep a good man..ahem..down)

[CinemaInternational]

Here's a musing for you folks! Just saw it on the news.

Al Pacino has just shattered the record formerly held by Anthony Quinn for 27 years.

That being the oldest big name actor to father a child. Quinn was 81 at the time, and Pacino is 83.

(...well, as they say, you can't keep a good man..ahem..down)

Joining the ranks of Pablo Picasso , I see

[Intrepid37]

Has Pacino obtained the DNA test yet?

[Dargo]

Here's a musing for you folks! Just saw it on the news.

Al Pacino has just shattered the record formerly held by Anthony Quinn for 27 years.

That being the oldest big name actor to father a child. Quinn was 81 at the time, and Pacino is 83.

(...well, as they say, you can't keep a good man..ahem..down)

Joining the ranks of Pablo Picasso , I see

From what I could find on the Net here CI, it appears Pablo would be a mere piker in these regards, as he was "only" 68 years old when he fathered his final child Paloma in 1949.